Why Did These Players Not Quite Make It?

[Damon_3388]

Why Did These Players Not Quite Make It?

I'll start off by saying that I'm not here to troll, just to start some constructive discussion about the Crows' past, and gain a bit of knowledge myself.

Despite being a Collingwood supporter, I've grown up in Adelaide and lived here all my life. And that being said, I can't help but have a soft spot for and somewhat follow the local team, which for most of my life has been the Adelaide Crows. Along with their champions and success stories, the Crows (just like every other club, obviously) have also had a number of recruits and younger talents that have passed through during their history who never quite 'made it' or never quite lived up to their early potential or promise. Every club would have just as extensive a list from the same time period (since 1991), and I'm obviously not saying every player should have played 100 games for the Crows (because that's obviously not possible, as someone has to go from the list each year, and some players are simply just not up to scratch), but I just want to know people's opinions on why certain names never trully made their mark for the Crows.

Out of curiosity, I've gone through the Crow's draft history (as well as some of my own recollections), and this one might require some longer-term fans with good memories to give some answers for these players, as some of them are going back a while, and some may not have even played a senior game. Some of them (especially some of the more recent ones) might have just been the standard de-listings that happen at every club in every year, but it'd still be nice to get some opinions from some Crows supporters as to why some didn't make it, as you'd have a better insight than me into your club's younger players over the years and would be following their progress more closely than I would. I've limited it to guys who played 20 games or less for the Crows as well, just so as not to make it too ridiculously long (although it's bordering on that anyway). Anyway, here's the list (sorted by draft year):

1991
- Jim West (Mid-Year draft)
- Andrew Geddes (Mid-Year draft)
- Alan Schwartz (Mid-Year draft)

1992
- Brook Fogden
- Matthew Powell
- Sam Smart
- Michael Gooden
- Darryl Wakelin (Pre-Season draft)
- Josh Mail (Pre-Season draft)
- Simon Pedler (Pre-Season draft)

1993
- Eugene Warrior
- Shane Tongerie (Pre-Season draft)

1994
- Toby Kennett
- Allen Nash
- Matthew Collins
- Brett Higgins

1995
- Brent Williams
- Scott Hodges (his second run with the club)
- Adam Ugrinic
- Ashley Fernee
- Brendan Logan (Pre-Season draft)

1996
- Tom Gilligan
- Greg Dempsey
- Ben Parker
- Aaron Keating (Pre-Draft traded zone/concession)
- Nick Laidlaw (Pre-Draft traded zone/concession)
- Steven Coghill (Rookie listed)

1997
- Lance Picioane
- Linden Stevens (later rookie listed as well)
- Tim Davis (Rookie listed)
- Sudjai Cook (Rookie listed)
- Steven Hall (Rookie listed)

1998
- Lucas Herbert
- Clint Kirey
- Brodie Atkinson
- Darryl Wintle (Pre-Season draft)
- Stuart Bown (Rookie listed)
- Dean Howard (Rookie listed)
- Matthew Golding (Rookie listed, later rookie listed in 2000 as well)
- Jarrod Twitt (Rookie listed)
- Scott Matthews (Rookie listed)

1999
- Ricky O'Loughlin
- Justin Cicolella (later rookie listed in 2000 as well)
- Balraj Singh
- Matthew Shir
- Josh Coulter (Rookie listed)
- Chris Robinson (Rookie listed)
- Jonathan Yerbury (Rookie listed)

2000
- Lawrence Angwin
- Michael Handby
- Matthew Smith (later rookie listed in 2003 as well)
- Adam Richardson (Pre-Season draft)
- Kane McLean (Rookie listed)
- Matthew Golding (Rookie listed)

2001
- Ben Finnin
- Jacob Schuback
- Paul Thomas (Rookie listed)

2002
- Aidan Parker (Rookie listed)
- Michael Bratton (Rookie listed)

2003
- Fergus Watts
- Joshua Krueger
- Tim Hazell (Rookie listed)
- Rowan Andrews (Rookie listed)
- Brad Dabrowski (Rookie listed)

2004
- John Meesen
- Chad Gibson
- Ryan Nye (Rookie listed)
- John Hinge (Rookie listed)

2005
- Darren Pfeiffer
- Alan Obst
- Brad Sugars (Rookie listed)
- Tom Redden (Rookie listed)
- Adrian Bonaddio (Rookie listed)
- Sam Elliot (Rookie listed)

2006
- Bryce Campbell
- Andrew McIntyre (Rookie listed)
- James Turner (Rookie listed)
- Rhys Archard (Rookie listed)

2007
- Edward Curnow (Rookie listed)

As well as that, is there anyone among that list who you thought should have been given more of a chance, or thought had the potential to really be something for Adelaide? You obviously don't have to quote the whole post and/or comment on every player, just pick out some names from the list and add some thoughts. Some of these have probably been discussed ad nauseum in the recent past I'd imagine as well (eg. Angwin, Watts, Meesen), so you can bypass some of the more well-documented ones if you like. And if you've got any other names you'd like to mention and discuss, such as draftees who played a bit, but could have kicked on and really made something of themselves (eg. Martin McKinnon, Matthew Kluzek, Nick Pesch, Jonathan Ross), or even inaugural squad members or other players who weren't aquired through the draft system (eg. Adam Saliba, Jarrod Hocking, Eddie Hocking, Brenton Sanderson, Randall Bone, Michael DiBiase, etc.), obviously feel free to do so.

I'll create a Collingwood-related thread on the team board there at some stage as well, because there are some players from my own club who I'd like to know what happened with too.

 

[Campbell's Chunky]

You might get more responses if you covered a more specific set of players, rather than the whole world.

So I guess each poster will take the role of a player - mine will be Fergus Watts. He had a lot of talent, could've been a very good AFL forward, but felt compelled to go home. Injured his foot in a serious fashion - only just gets up for amateur games but still kicked near a century last year.

Next.

 

[Damon_3388]

You might get more responses if you covered a more specific set of players, rather than the whole world.

So I guess each poster will take the role of a player - mine will be Fergus Watts. He had a lot of talent, could've been a very good AFL forward, but felt compelled to go home. Injured his foot in a serious fashion - only just gets up for amateur games but still kicked near a century last year.

Next.

I know it's a pretty general and unwieldy thread, but you presented a good idea - maybe everyone can just pick out one name they know most about and/or feel compelled to comment on, and focus on them.

If I had to narrow it down, I'd say I'm particularly interested in some of the players that were drafted before the club won their two Premierships, because I was still a 50/50 supporter of both the Crows and Collingwood back then as a kid (mainly due to Tony Modra ).

 

[magtrev]

Got a couple of premiership players on that list

I choose James Gallagher even though he isn't on your list. He wasn't the greatest player of all time, but perhaps he could have made a little more of his career if the coach had deemed him worthy of a single conversation in his entire time at the club.

 

[Damon_3388]

Got a couple of premiership players on that list

I thought about not including Aaron Keating, but he never really set the world on fire at the Crows (he's among a group of young home-grown rucks that struggled to trully cement themselves in the late '90s/early 2000s for the Crows when moving towards the post-Rehn/Pittman era), so I thought I'd leave him in.

I choose James Gallagher even though he isn't on your list. He wasn't the greatest player of all time, but perhaps he could have made a little more of his career if the coach had deemed him worthy of a single conversation in his entire time at the club.

As a Redlegs supporter, I naturally rate our current Captain Gallagher, and while I think his size and footskills might have been an issue at AFL level, he always managed to find a bit of the ball. It seemed like he got unfairly scapegoated in a few losses, and didn't really get a decent lengthy run in the side to really establish himself.

 

[cmndstab]

Rather than just picking one player let me say that quite a few players fell into the category of "jack of all trades, master of none" - we had a lot of players that had solid talent but no real weapons. John Hinge is a good example of a player who I really quite liked and he was (and still is) a good footballer but somehow just didn't quite have enough going for him to make it at AFL level. We seem to have gotten a lot of players who have a deficiency that requires a positive elsewhere that they just don't have - like small players who are poor kicks or too slow, or tall players that just don't have any intensity.

 

[KUNG FU]

Andrew McIntyre didn't want to play AFL and is supposed to have not really fit in with the playing group. Can now be seen down for the Roosters, carving out a pretty good niche for himself. Good athlete, but slender frame and didn't always use his height to full advantage.

Rhys Archard was a mature age rookie, picking up a lot of pill for Souths. He quit the club mid-season, realizing that AFL wasn't for him either, probably the athletic workload. Although he was a nippy little player, he probably had to work harder than some others to get his CV up to scratch. Also, moved to Norths.

John Meesen will make it down at the Dees
Awesome athlete and footballer, just lacked any real intensity. Failed to use his body or his height in the contest at was too often caught flat footed. Huge tank, quick with his hands and an above average kick for a tall guy. Training specialist, but lacked mongrel. Asked to be traded for Pick 37 to the Dees in 2007 after it was claer he was behind Griffin and Maric who were picked up in the same draft. We picked up Myke Cook with that pick. Actually me moderately enthused about his prospects again in the last 2 rounds. We'll all be getting a closer look today.

 

[KUNG FU]

Darren Pfeiffer was a very effective footballer, predominantly playing off HBF or the wing for Norwood. Complete opposite of Meesen. High intensity, pack crasher. Would play above his height and could pinch hit in a KPB post in the SANFL. Great aerial mark, excellent in traffic, some questioned his disposal, but it was fine imo once he took a couple extra steps. For his game style, he could have done with an extra yard of pace perhaps, but I'd put that down to his failure to build up his tank. Was penalized by the club on a couple of occasions. Once for not rocking up to training in a good state, which is alleged to have put him on the outer within the playing group. And then later he and Bernie Vince broke curfew, same time Hudson did. Was then delisted, picked up Carlton on their rookie list., Seemed to have turned a corner early in the year but was delisted and then re-rookied again by the Blues.

 

[KUNG FU]

Chad Gibson and Alan Obst were both injury-related delistees. Gibson played another year for Norwood and then left after another ACL? I can't remember. Obst was rookied by North, has played a couple games, looked OK, but yeah, body issues.

 

[Mego Red]

Adam Ugrinic had thrilling pace, but wasn't necessarily footy smart, and his skills by foot weren't great - lots of in and under kicks.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

- Matthew Powell

He played quite a few games. Was a tough back pocket type. Probably a bit slow. Plus he had the unfortunate habit that he would knock himself out once every couple of games. Made it difficult to get any consistency in his game!

- Josh Mail (Pre-Season draft)

I really liked this guy. Was small, low centre of gravity, a real Tyson Edwards type. I heard that he was a bit of a loose cannon off field (booze + tax) and that was what cost him a genuine crack at an AFL career. Not 100% on this though.

- Brent Williams

Another player that I rated and thought would succeed at AFL level. Had a crack with Melbourne after us but never nailed his positiion. Was probably in the system for 4 years or so.

Was a CHF but probably not quite tall enough to deal with the better key defenders. I liked him because he was a genuine footballer, not an athlete. Had some real smarts about him but he came at a time when leg speed and athleticism were becoming more and more important even for KPP. Wish he'd played more games.

- Lance Picioane

Played some games very early (first year I think) and apparently it went to his head a bit (not literally, even though he did have a very big head!). Initial impressions were that he was a very good player who could develop into an inside midfielder. The word from the players though was that he was a bit arrogant, was used to being the gun through his junior days and didn't quite have the work ethic to succeed. Remembering that he was at Adelaide during the Neil Craig fitness regime.

His talent meant that he got another chance at the Kangas and Hawthorn but was never quite as good as he thought he was, mostly filling roles down back for them.

- Matthew Shir

Another bloke I rated. Thought he was ok in the games he played and was pretty reliable. No frills, ok disposal, didn't fumble much. Played across half back for us. Surprised he didn't get more opportunities but I guess he just didn't have anything special in his game to separate him from the other fringe players.

I believe that "vanilla" is the term that would be used to describe him today.

 

[showdownhero]

Ran into Aaron Keating at the MCG about 2 years ago and for what ever reason he gave me the story on his Pelvis Break. He fell on his arse, it was hurting really badly he came off, Blightly got on the phone to him and said "If that's just a corky, you'll never ****in play for this club again."

So he got a jab and went for a jog around the boundary and what was a hairline fracture totally shattered his pelvis hence why it was compared to a car accident injury.

Even after the bone had recovered he never regained the strength in his core to be an AFL footballer.

 

[melbournemartin]

Meesen has had a great 2 games for Melbourne so far

 

[IddyBiddy]

Ben Parker thought that Blight's training regime was going to kill him so he went home to his mother.

Brent Williams was another who didn't deal with being away from home very well IIRC. There is probably a list of home sick players that couldn't cope.

 

[RoosterLad]

McIntyre is absolutely dominating for North this season. He has been superb.

Archard was also a good pick up and has been our best player this season, didn't play yesterday due to a hammy which will probably see him miss our match against the Warriors this week.

 

[SAAndy]

I know about Tom Redden he is from Keith and his brother is Jack Redden who is listed at Brisbane also another brother who I will be playing against later in the year anyway he got delisted because he was partying lots of something and currently is playing for Keith (so is Jim West)

 

[Macca19]

1991
- Jim West (Mid-Year draft)
Good forward, didnt get a go with Hodges, Jameson, Mcintyre ahead of him, despite playing games for Sydney.

- Andrew Geddes (Mid-Year draft)
Not good enough

- Alan Schwartz (Mid-Year draft)
Too old. Probably drafted for backup

1992
- Brook Fogden
Decent ruck for West, but took a while to develop. Played a fair few games for West in the end and had a decent SANFL career

- Matthew Powell
One of those players that was arguably too good for SANFL, but not enough tricks for AFL, though the AFL game suited him more back then than it would now. Played in a flag for Sturt. Played some decent AFL games though

- Sam Smart
Too thin, took too long to develop. Started to have an impact for Norwood in 96 and got drafted by Carlton but didnt go on with it there either

- Michael Gooden
Too small, not enough tricks

- Darryl Wakelin (Pre-Season draft)
Dumped too early, after just the one season on the list from memory. Had a super 1994, Premiership, JO Medal and ended up having his rights go to Fremantle...who then traded him for a pick to St Kilda (similar to the Mcleod situation)

- Josh Mail (Pre-Season draft)
He quit as he didnt have the desire to play AFL

- Simon Pedler (Pre-Season draft)
Not good enough, good SANFL standard player. Played in a flag in 1994 and played good consistent footy both up forward and down back for the Pies. Was never gonna get ahead of Modra & co.

1993
- Eugene Warrior
Didnt have the desire to make it and its something that plagued his career at a few clubs at SANFL level too

1994
- Toby Kennett
Bog standard SANFL footballer, nothing more

- Allen Nash
Reserves standard footballer

- Matthew Collins
Was traded for Bassett

- Brett Higgins
Didnt develop enough whilst on the Crows list. Broke through the SANFL ranks after he was delisted, very quick and skillful but maybe a touch too small at the time. Quite injury prone as well

1995
- Brent Williams
Was traded

- Scott Hodges (his second run with the club)
Kicked 100 goals, won Ports BnF and was unlucky not to get the JO Medal in that season on the Crows list...yet could only manage 2 games in a team that couldnt win a game after round 6ish. Waste of a pick really

- Adam Ugrinic
Unluckiest man to play football just about

- Brendan Logan (Pre-Season draft)
Nowhere near AFL standard

 

[SAAndy]

John Hinge is from Mundulla played 1 game and kicked a goal I think (like Clayton Lamb) and wasn't at AFL level so right now is playing for Glenelg and the occasional final game for Mundulla.

 

[tribey]

Adam Ugrinic had thrilling pace, but wasn't necessarily footy smart, and his skills by foot weren't great - lots of in and under kicks.

Not to mention the only guy to have worse hamstrings than Matthew Liptak and Simon Tregenza.

 

[Crow-mo]

Adam Ugrinic had thrilling pace, but wasn't necessarily footy smart, and his skills by foot weren't great - lots of in and under kicks.

his footskills were fantastic... you must be thinking of someone else.

he couldn't find it.

 

[Crow-mo]

Not to mention the only guy to have worse hamstrings than Matthew Liptak and Simon Tregenza.

also true,

 

[tribey]

- Chris Robertson (Rookie listed)

From memory he debuted for North Adelaide seniors at just 15 years of age and did rather well (the hype at the time was quite large as you'd expect) before repetitive serious injury pretty much destroyed the potential he had.

Bounced back a few years later - hence the rookie listing - but never really kicked on.

 

[Macca19]

Yeah Robertson was an unlucky player as well. Seemed to get injured in every game he played. He made the move to the Magpies in 2001 and every game he played he had a real impact. Great user of the ball, pacey, goal kicker, but every game he'd tear, snap, twinge, rip, knock, bruise or break something, without fail.

 

[LC40]

McIntyre is absolutely dominating for North this season. He has been superb.

Archard was also a good pick up and has been our best player this season, didn't play yesterday due to a hammy which will probably see him miss our match against the Warriors this week.

Really rate Archard if he was committed and had just stuck it out I'm sure he would have played AFL football.Football smart does all the right things well a damn good footballer for one so small.