Opinion Will either Carlton or Essendon be the bolter in 2022?

Which club is more likely to win another flag first?


  • Total voters
    206

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Yoda_

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Is it a question worth considering? Guelfi is a fairly limited depth player. Obviously I’m not giving up on him and he can make it as a pressure small forward but atm he’s very much in 23-30 range of the list

The forward group is the biggest question mark. Who can kick all the goals. Was Stringer's 2021 an arbitration or the rule now, can Wright go on with his ok 2021, who fills in for Tippa if he isn't right. Etc. Etc.
 

Ambrosia

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The forward group is the biggest question mark. Who can kick all the goals. Was Stringer's 2021 an arbitration or the rule now, can Wright go on with his ok 2021, who fills in for Tippa if he isn't right. Etc. Etc.

I think Stringer looks ready to be as good if not better this year. Langford as well improves every year and was already a very good HFF in 2021.

The Wright/Jones and whoever cements themselves as the third tall forward (Francis, Baldwin, Hurley, Bryan ect) will be what makes or breaks our forward line imo.

What’s good for our side is we have some mature depth who have shown they can perform at AFL level. Cutler, Smith, Guelfi, Ham and Waterman all aren’t in my best 22 and should provide solid injury cover and drive our VFL side.
 

Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods

Sir Cripps of Carlton House
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Yeah I would agree.

Carlton have mitigated their poor drafting and development somewhat by recruiting players from other clubs though. Martin (PSD), Williams (FA), Hewett (FA) and Newman (nothing pick) are all reasonable talents for freebies.

If they could just up their strike rate in drafting I expect them to rise up the ladder especially if Cripps can get it together
Just on the bolded, was only a short vid, but the latest training clip the club posted yesterday showed him moving as good as he has since 2018/2019. Perhaps even better. Looks to be over whatever was holding him back last year.
 

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Ambrosia

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Just on the bolded, was only a short vid, but the latest training clip the club posted yesterday showed him moving as good as he has since 2018/2019. Perhaps even better. Looks to be over whatever was holding him back last year.

Big news if true. I don’t expect him to be as statistically dominant as in 2018/19 as I think those numbers were inflated because his teammates were so bad but if he can get back to top 5/10 in the comp the Blues midfield goes from weakness to borderline strength.
 

Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods

Sir Cripps of Carlton House
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I think Stringer looks ready to be as good if not better this year. Langford as well improves every year and was already a very good HFF in 2021.

The Wright/Jones and whoever cements themselves as the third tall forward (Francis, Baldwin, Hurley, Bryan ect) will be what makes or breaks our forward line imo.

What’s good for our side is we have some mature depth who have shown they can perform at AFL level. Cutler, Smith, Guelfi, Ham and Waterman all aren’t in my best 22 and should provide solid injury cover and drive our VFL side.
How much more improvement has Stringer actually got? He seems to be back to his 2015/2016 form, but will be starting the year as a 27yo and will be 28 by round 7. You just don't really see many 27/28yo making decent improvements.
I think you can hope for him to stay at his current level for a few years and look for the improvement from others.
 

Ambrosia

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How much more improvement has Stringer actually got? He seems to be back to his 2015/2016 form, but will be starting the year as a 27yo and will be 28 by round 7. You just don't really see many 27/28yo making decent improvements.
I think you can hope for him to stay at his current level for a few years and look for the improvement from others.

Agree on limited improvement in him. I was alluding to him putting together his back half of the year for a full year. Interrupted preseason (missed the first two games) plus had an ankle and hamstring injury during the year.

If he’s at his 2021 best for a full season it’ll be clearly his best year to date even taking into account his previous AA year at the dogs. Training reports/photos have him looking fitter then ever and apparently continued training at the club through Xmas break. The penny may really have dropped
 

Yoda_

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Agree on limited improvement in him. I was alluding to him putting together his back half of the year for a full year. Interrupted preseason (missed the first two games) plus had an ankle and hamstring injury during the year.

If he’s at his 2021 best for a full season it’ll be clearly his best year to date even taking into account his previous AA year at the dogs. Training reports/photos have him looking fitter then ever and apparently continued training at the club through Xmas break. The penny may really have dropped
Not just stringer here either. We had quite a few guys who had career best years. They'll all need to step back up close to there best if we are to return to where we finished last year if not better.
 

Milanista28

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How much more improvement has Stringer actually got? He seems to be back to his 2015/2016 form, but will be starting the year as a 27yo and will be 28 by round 7. You just don't really see many 27/28yo making decent improvements.
I think you can hope for him to stay at his current level for a few years and look for the improvement from others.

He's lost more weight over the off season, looks the fittest he's been for us, hopefully he continues the good form.
 

tonygeeks

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Saw an eye opening stat the other day where half of Carlton’s list started at other clubs , really a clear outlier compared to most other clubs which seem to be getting more draft focused than less

Hard to say if it matters at all but interesting to see how it works out for them


Sent from my iPad using BigFooty.com
 

Ambrosia

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Not just stringer here either. We had quite a few guys who had career best years. They'll all need to step back up close to there best if we are to return to where we finished last year if not better.

Not overly concerned. Parish may struggle to be quite as good with more competition for spots but for Stewart, Laverde and Redman, Heppell it was because they were healthy, Wright and Hind had their best years because they got opportunity, Draper and Snelling was because they started the season having played less than 30 games so of course 2021 was their best year.

Obviously Stringer is the one he is one that could cop an injury and regress significantly given he is a bit erratic.

It’s more fun to think about the upside of blokes though.
 

Yoda_

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Saw an eye opening stat the other day where half of Carlton’s list started at other clubs , really a clear outlier compared to most other clubs which seem to be getting more draft focused than less

Hard to say if it matters at all but interesting to see how it works out for them


Sent from my iPad using BigFooty.com

consensus Carlton best 22 according to zero hangar.com

Backline; Stocker - Weiterung - Docherety

Halfbackline; Saad - Marchbank - Newman

Centreline; Williams - Cripps - Walsh

Halfforwardline; Silvagni - C.Curnow - Martin

Forwardline; Honey - McKay - Fisher

Rucks; Pittonet - Cerra - Hewitt

I/C; De Koning, E.Curnow, Young, McGovern

Emergency; Lachie Plowman, Matt Kennedy, Lachie Fogarty, Will Setterfield

Holy hell !!! I didn't realise it was that much.. A few other pages have pretty much the same players possibly just moved around a tad.
 

Benga

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Not just stringer here either. We had quite a few guys who had career best years. They'll all need to step back up close to there best if we are to return to where we finished last year if not better.
This was a big difference between both sides in 2021.

Whilst Essendon, to their credit, enjoyed a good number of career best seasons, Carlton had a disappointing amount of career worst seasons.
Outside of McKay, Walsh, Weitering, Saad, Stocker, Silvagni and possibly Plowman, who all performed as expected or better, the rest of our list underperformed for various reasons.

In particular, Cripps, Williams, Martin and Docherty are all big talents who had seasons well below par.

Of course every team has examples of these, just feel we had a strangely high amount.
 

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Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods

Sir Cripps of Carlton House
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Saw an eye opening stat the other day where half of Carlton’s list started at other clubs , really a clear outlier compared to most other clubs which seem to be getting more draft focused than less

Hard to say if it matters at all but interesting to see how it works out for them


Sent from my iPad using BigFooty.com
I count 17.
I would say 9 of them are solid best 22 players.
5 of them fringe and unlikely to best 22.
4 probably won't be around for long.
 

Arr0w

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consensus Carlton best 22 according to zero hangar.com

Backline; Stocker - Weiterung - Docherety

Halfbackline; Saad - Marchbank - Newman

Centreline; Williams - Cripps - Walsh

Halfforwardline; Silvagni - C.Curnow - Martin

Forwardline; Honey - McKay - Fisher

Rucks; Pittonet - Cerra - Hewitt

I/C; De Koning, E.Curnow, Young, McGovern

Emergency; Lachie Plowman, Matt Kennedy, Lachie Fogarty, Will Setterfield

Holy hell !!! I didn't realise it was that much.. A few other pages have pretty much the same players possibly just moved around a tad.

Not that we are there yet, but most flag winning sides have 20-30% of premiership players coming from other clubs. You had 10 players from other clubs, playing games last year
 
Last edited:

The_MCG

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Dec 10, 2021
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Got to say i'm not holding out a huge amount of hope for this year. Losing Jones is a very big hole to fill, and we really have to find more options in the midfield other than Cripps and Walsh. Hopefully Voss can help the latter. Getting Cerra and Hewitt will help with this, but we still need more options.

If all things go to plan, then I think we can play finals.
 

The_MCG

Draftee
Dec 10, 2021
17
21
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Carlton
consensus Carlton best 22 according to zero hangar.com

Backline; Stocker - Weiterung - Docherety

Halfbackline; Saad - Marchbank - Newman

Centreline; Williams - Cripps - Walsh

Halfforwardline; Silvagni - C.Curnow - Martin

Forwardline; Honey - McKay - Fisher

Rucks; Pittonet - Cerra - Hewitt

I/C; De Koning, E.Curnow, Young, McGovern

Emergency; Lachie Plowman, Matt Kennedy, Lachie Fogarty, Will Setterfield

Holy hell !!! I didn't realise it was that much.. A few other pages have pretty much the same players possibly just moved around a tad.

Take Doc out, I doubt we'll see him play footy again.
Move Newman to the back pocket, Williams to half back, E.Curnow to the wing.
 

Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods

Sir Cripps of Carlton House
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consensus Carlton best 22 according to zero hangar.com

Backline; Stocker - Weiterung - Docherety

Halfbackline; Saad - Marchbank - Newman

Centreline; Williams - Cripps - Walsh

Halfforwardline; Silvagni - C.Curnow - Martin

Forwardline; Honey - McKay - Fisher

Rucks; Pittonet - Cerra - Hewitt

I/C; De Koning, E.Curnow, Young, McGovern

Emergency; Lachie Plowman, Matt Kennedy, Lachie Fogarty, Will Setterfield

Holy hell !!! I didn't realise it was that much.. A few other pages have pretty much the same players possibly just moved around a tad.
Personally I'd replace Marchbank with Kemp.
Debatable that we would really go that tall too.
Also possible that Newman misses out, Williams goes down back and LOB gets a gig on the wing.
Four talls on the bench? Replace one of them with Dow.
Traditionally Cuningham has been selected whenever fit also.

A lot of Carlton supporters will also be hoping for some of our 'homegrown' players to be pushing for games and pushing some of these others out, like...
From the obvious fringe players just listed; Dow, LOB, Kemp, Cuningham.
The rest:
Motlop - looks ready to go in a position of need. Small forward is a position where a kid can easily come straight in and play a role well.
Owies - showed some signs last year with 15 goals from 13 games and nearly 3 tackles a game as a pressure forward.
Durdin - only played 2 games
Carroll - yet to play
Philps - only played 2 games
 

HavUEvaSeenTheRain

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consensus Carlton best 22 according to zero hangar.com

Backline; Stocker - Weiterung - Docherety

Halfbackline; Saad - Marchbank - Newman

Centreline; Williams - Cripps - Walsh

Halfforwardline; Silvagni - C.Curnow - Martin

Forwardline; Honey - McKay - Fisher

Rucks; Pittonet - Cerra - Hewitt

I/C; De Koning, E.Curnow, Young, McGovern

Emergency; Lachie Plowman, Matt Kennedy, Lachie Fogarty, Will Setterfield

Holy hell !!! I didn't realise it was that much.. A few other pages have pretty much the same players possibly just moved around a tad.

That side listed and the amount of games they played last season for Carlton


FB. 17. 22. 14
HB. 22. 0. 14
C. 14. 20. 22
HF. 15. 4. 11
FF. 4. 19. 10

Fol. 13. 0. 0.

Int. 13. 22. 0. 5.

fair to say we will never actually see us line up like that
 
Last edited:

doppleganger

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In particular, Cripps, Williams, Martin and Docherty are all big talents who had seasons well below par.

Of course every team has examples of these, just feel we had a strangely high amount.
What does 'big talents' mean?

Unfortunately for Doc, with his health battles surely a long shot to ever get back to his 2016-17 output.

Williams and Martin, these two are just flakey. Go look at their careers, they never really ever produced consistent output.

Williams been in the system 9 years, and avgs 14 games and 19 disposals per game....

Martin, he is a player who doesn't win much of the ball (mid teens disposals type player) or hit the scoreboard enough (under 1 goal per game) and in 6 of 8 seasons played 16 games or less (fragile and often injured)...

Both delivered their regular output in 2021 similar to what they have for their career.
 

Thrawn

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Just on the bolded, was only a short vid, but the latest training clip the club posted yesterday showed him moving as good as he has since 2018/2019. Perhaps even better. Looks to be over whatever was holding him back last year.
I'm not convinced. Lots of pre-seasons players "train the house down", look "in top shape" yet produce a lemon of a season.
 

Arr0w

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What does 'big talents' mean?

Unfortunately for Doc, with his health battles surely a long shot to ever get back to his 2016-17 output.

Williams and Martin, these two are just flakey. Go look at their careers, they never really ever produced consistent output.

Williams been in the system 9 years, and avgs 14 games and 19 disposals per game....

Martin, he is a player who doesn't win much of the ball (mid teens disposals type player) or hit the scoreboard enough (under 1 goal per game) and in 6 of 8 seasons played 16 games or less (fragile and often injured)...

Both delivered their regular output in 2021 similar to what they have for their career.

Doc doesn't have to get back to his AA form, just has to be a vital cog

Martin and Williams have played most of their careers in struggling/rebuilding sides, hence their output would be lower than similar players in sides with better output overall.

Similar to Hoskin Elliott, low possessions, 40 odd goals in a contending year, low possessions and stuff all goals in a bottom 4 year
 

Ambrosia

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I'm not convinced. Lots of pre-seasons players "train the house down", look "in top shape" yet produce a lemon of a season.

It’s hard to know especially without there being much concrete info on Cripps injury. Is it something that will be aggravated from knocks? Is it something that will always be managed? Or has he fully recovered and it was just unfortunate that it impacted two years
 

Benga

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What does 'big talents' mean?

Unfortunately for Doc, with his health battles surely a long shot to ever get back to his 2016-17 output.

Williams and Martin, these two are just flakey. Go look at their careers, they never really ever produced consistent output.

Williams been in the system 9 years, and avgs 14 games and 19 disposals per game....

Martin, he is a player who doesn't win much of the ball (mid teens disposals type player) or hit the scoreboard enough (under 1 goal per game) and in 6 of 8 seasons played 16 games or less (fragile and often injured)...

Both delivered their regular output in 2021 similar to what they have for their career.
As someone else has said, Docherty doesn’t have to be AA to improve on last season. His first half of the season was actually quite good, before dropping away considerably. I’m more optimistic than most regarding his future I guess.

Williams was one of the most damaging hbf in the league not so long ago. Don’t particularly agree that he’s best described as “flakey” perhaps a little “injury prone” in the last few seasons is more apt.

Martin is flakey I agree, but his output over the last two seasons is still below what he is capable of, even compared to his GC days. Similar to McGovern in the sense that he just hasn’t had a good run at it, injury wise. More than capable enough however.
 

Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods

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I'm not convinced. Lots of pre-seasons players "train the house down", look "in top shape" yet produce a lemon of a season.
Have you seen the footage? He's moving much better. Looks more agile and mobile. It's not so much training the house down. No visible stiffness, bending down better, twisting at the hips.
Last year he could barely bend down to pick up a loose ball. It's very noticeable.