Current Trial Wonnangatta - Russell Hill & Carol Clay vanish *Pilot Greg Lynn charged with murder

[Kurve]

Disappearance of Barwon Prison Boss David Prideaux - High Country Mount Stirling
Hit and Run Death of Bryce Airs - High Country Jamieson

Israel Keyes

On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[MiguelM]

Absolutely not. A case like this is going to probably need a unanimous verdict.

IMO with what they have so far thr prosecution will have a difficult time convincing all the jury of murder charges.

Manslaughter x 1, interfering x 2 a slam dunk for the prosecution.

Yeah, in a criminal case it must be unanimous.

What I am saying, is it reasonably possible a Jury could go against him just on vibe if you like. Esp given the publicity of the case.

 

[BFew]

Absolutely not. A case like this is going to probably need a unanimous verdict.

Much easier if there is a jury of "1" (a Judge only trial).

 

[Zidane98]

Yeah, in a criminal case it must be unanimous.

What I am saying, is it reasonably possible a Jury could go against him just on vibe if you like. Esp given the publicity of the case.

Vibe should play zero role in jury deliberations.

Jury will be instructed by judge to base their deliberations solely on the facts presented by both sides.

When I did jury duty the "vibe" played no role at all although it is more difficult to place "vibe" aside for such an unusual & high profile case.

 

[MiguelM]

Vibe should play zero role in jury deliberations.

Jury will be instructed by judge to base their deliberations solely on the facts presented by both sides.

When I did jury duty the "vibe" played no role at all although it is more difficult to place "vibe" aside for such an unusual & high profile case.

I know but I have been on 2 juries and some people surmise scenario's. Circumstantial evidence is seen as guilt for some too.

Even had one woman on a jury who caught the same train as me and sat next to me saying, what if this, what if that regarding the case. Just told her not discussing it & she shouldn't be either. She was a nutter, just made up stuff.

 

[Zidane98]

I know but I have been on 2 juries and some people surmise scenario's. Circumstantial evidence is seen as guilt for some too.

Even had one woman on a jury who caught the same train as me and sat next to me saying, what if this, what if that regarding the case. Just told her not discussing it & she shouldn't be either. She was a nutter, just made up stuff.

Some, not all 12. The jury system works well IMO. Very rare cases where they get it wrong with all the correct evidence presented to them.

 

[MiguelM]

Some, not all 12. The jury system works well IMO. Very rare cases where they get it wrong with all the correct evidence presented to them.

Agreed. And in both cases the Judge was very subtly pointing the jury in a certain direction.

 

[Kurve]

I'm wondering why we were never given a description of their sleeping bags to look out for, as a bulky item we know Lynn removed them from and probably took with him, that might have been important. DNA on the zippers might have been useful.

 

[Dirh Semaj]

Absolutely not. A case like this is going to probably need a unanimous verdict.

IMO with what they have so far thr prosecution will have a difficult time convincing all the jury of murder charges.

Manslaughter x 1, interfering x 2 a slam dunk for the prosecution.

Since there has been allegedly a person stabbed to death and a person killed by a shot to the head and an accused admitting to it all and pleading it was an accident/self defence, this case going to trial was a forgone conclusion IMO.
The prosecution are yet to reveal their hand and probably haven't needed to yet.

 

[Dirh Semaj]

the type of gun becomes very important for the defence. What’s the capacity of the gun?

Someone mention shot gun?
What evidence is there of any gun shot?

If it was Double barrel shot gun with a 2 bullet Capacity.

Likely defence story.

Lynn approached Hill and argues about the drone, he threatens to shoot it down… Hill thinks he is bluffing, then Lynn shoots the drone.
This starts a fight… Lynn has Hill pushed up and pinned down against the left side of the 4x4 … with one bullet still in the chamber and Carol trying to get Lynn off Hill, it dischargers a kills Carol and blows off the side mirror.
Fight continues and Lynn over powers Hill over the tent area… killls him with a tent peg or knife?

Lynn burns the scene.

I wonder also if the arguing started earlier… and Lynn had already packed and was leaving…
Arguing from his car… the yelling match gets more and more heated and Lynn jumps out with his gun.


Yes but his actions after the event points to someone hiding a murder…

So the defense needs to explain and prove why he acted like a murder … if they want the judge an jury to believe he acted in self defense.

The actions of the accused after the deaths are consistent with murder yes, but they're also consistent with at least one other scenario.

Nope, the defence don't need to prove (or explain) why some may perceive was acting like a murderer. The prosecution need to prove he committed murder. He's innocent until proven guilty right?

 

[jason_recliner]

Can a jury still convict even if there is reasonable doubt from a legal perspective?

Jury can do whatever they like. If there is a conviction in spite of reasonable doubt it would be appealed.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I know but I have been on 2 juries and some people surmise scenario's. Circumstantial evidence is seen as guilt for some too.

Even had one woman on a jury who caught the same train as me and sat next to me saying, what if this, what if that regarding the case. Just told her not discussing it & she shouldn't be either. She was a nutter, just made up stuff.

Oh great . And people say juries must be trusted to deliver the right decision. We’ve seen how well juries have worked in recent high-profile cases, haven’t we. Not. With publicity and social media it’s impossible to find twelve people who haven’t heard about a case and already formed an opinion.

 

[MiguelM]

Oh great . And people say juries must be trusted to deliver the right decision. We’ve seen how well juries have worked in recent high-profile cases, haven’t we. Not. With publicity and social media it’s impossible to find twelve people who haven’t heard about a case and already formed an opinion.

In the end I believe the right decisions were made in both cases but it was hard work with this lady. The instructions are very clear about only considering the evidence and definition of "beyond reasonable doubt". Pre-conceived opinions must be dismissed.

Having said that, the high profile cases are tarnished by the media. Headlines can be for shock value. Look at the Azaria case, how anyone could convict on the evidence was beyond me.

Murder will be hard to stick in this case going on he evidence presented. You can't assume.

Up to the prosecution to find some damning evidence.

 

[Zidane98]

In the end I believe the right decisions were made in both cases but it was hard work with this lady. The instructions are very clear about only considering the evidence and definition of "beyond reasonable doubt". Pre-conceived opinions must be dismissed.

Having said that, the high profile cases are tarnished by the media. Headlines can be for shock value. Look at the Azaria case, how anyone could convict on the evidence was beyond me.

Murder will be hard to stick in this case going on he evidence presented. You can't assume.

Up to the prosecution to find some damning evidence.

Is an interstate jury possible? While the case is high profile in the Melbourne media it isnt over in Perth.

 

[SJ]

Oh great . And people say juries must be trusted to deliver the right decision. We’ve seen how well juries have worked in recent high-profile cases, haven’t we. Not. With publicity and social media it’s impossible to find twelve people who haven’t heard about a case and already formed an opinion.

Lots of people I know don’t know anything about this case.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Absolutely not. A case like this is going to probably need a unanimous verdict.

IMO with what they have so far thr prosecution will have a difficult time convincing all the jury of murder charges.

Manslaughter x 1, interfering x 2 a slam dunk for the prosecution.

Disagree... going to be hard to argue against 1 murder charge as difficult to show there was 2 manslaughters.

 

[MiguelM]

Is an interstate jury possible? While the case is high profile in the Melbourne media it isnt over in Perth.

I doubt it . Normally the jury pool is selected within 90 or so km from the courtroom where proceedings are taking place.

People can be excused if:

What if I am unable to attend? If you have a valid reason why you cannot attend, you may apply to be deferred to a more convenient time. You may also have a valid reason to be excused. These include:  advanced age  ill health or disability  reside 50km from the Melbourne court, or 60km from the regional court listed on your summons  self-employed  primary carer of children or other family members during business hours  casual employee with unpredictable hours  full time student or apprentice  work for a small business

Also, in my younger years I was in the jury pool room in Melb and 50 or so people were called into the court for a case (embezzlement ANZ bank) that was going to last 6 months. Those who wanted to be excused had to go into the courtroom and explain individually why they could not attend (on the stand). I had a ski trip booked to Buller, explained this to the judge and he joked "There is not much snow up there atm" to which I replied "there is enough to enjoy" he then said "excused, have a great time".

Those that said they were busy at work was no excuse unless self employed or running a business. In the end none of those were selected on cross examination.

 

[Percel]

Lots of people I know don’t know anything about this case.

Agreed, only 1 out of the last 10 or so, even knew what I was talking about

 

[Badd0g]

Yeah, in a criminal case it must be unanimous.

What I am saying, is it reasonably possible a Jury could go against him just on vibe if you like. Esp given the publicity of the case.

Like in the castle? "It's the vibe" LOL

 

[Sir_Loin]

Yeah, in a criminal case it must be unanimous.

What I am saying, is it reasonably possible a Jury could go against him just on vibe if you like. Esp given the publicity of the case.

he is cooked. No chance he gets off. Bookmark it

 

[Kurve]

Like in the castle? "It's the vibe" LOL

 

[Irma]

Agreed, only 1 out of the last 10 or so, even knew what I was talking about

Same. Or they vaguely remember hearing something way back when RH & CC first went missing, but have no idea of anything since.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Same. Or they vaguely remember hearing something way back when RH & CC first went missing, but have no idea of anything since.

It's very easy to find out though. If I'm called up for jury service, I'm having a look online for cases coming up, or the crime reports in the news. And this one is interesting enough to want to read more about it.

 

[Wooden Robot]

I know but I have been on 2 juries and some people surmise scenario's. Circumstantial evidence is seen as guilt for some too.

Even had one woman on a jury who caught the same train as me and sat next to me saying, what if this, what if that regarding the case. Just told her not discussing it & she shouldn't be either. She was a nutter, just made up stuff.

Can relate to this.
About 10 years ago, had a guy work for me, who by nature of his work would have been exempt from jury duty had he asked ... but truthfully he just wanted time off work ... so he not only gets selected to the jury, but becomes the foreman.
He was gone for two weeks, but would come in mornings and afternoons wanting to discuss the case with work colleagues.
As their manager I advised them to walk away as he shouldn't be discussing the case with anyone.
Some can't help themselves.

 

[Wooden Robot]

Lots of people I know don’t know anything about this case.

Yeah .. it's odd.
I would have thought the words ' Wonnangatta Valley' would set off an instant reaction from most people, or at least some curiosity.
But for a lot of people I talk to, it doesn't register a blip on the radar.
That's said, I think the vast majority don't pay any attention to the news anymore.

 

[Sir_Loin]

Can relate to this.
About 10 years ago, had a guy work for me, who by nature of his work would have been exempt from jury duty had he asked ... but truthfully he just wanted time off work ... so he not only gets selected to the jury, but becomes the foreman.
He was gone for two weeks, but would come in mornings and afternoons wanting to discuss the case with work colleagues.
As their manager I advised them to walk away as he shouldn't be discussing the case with anyone.
Some can't help themselves.

You should have shot him and buried him in some high country s**t hole. No one has done that before.