young key forwards, who will be the best and why long term?

[Blackas87]

Do you always miss jokes this badly?

Rating young key forwards on potential is not a joking matter.

 

[Trav 20]

Poo poo those who criticise his body language all you like, but he's a bit of a loose cannon and a sook.

It's a non-issue, except for dolts.

Hogan wears his heart on his sleeve, but loves his teammates and they love him. Even then, he's no Richo.

Anyway, I suspect he'll have a ripping 2017, so I'll be happy to continue the conversation mid next year.

I have loved him since he burst on the scene in the VFL as an 18 year old and he's done nothing to change my mind. I do want the kicking for goal to be improved, but suspect it will. That is his only weakness.

 

[tenderwarrior]

Jeremy Cameron was born the same year as Patton (born 1993), and Peter Wright is the other one who has missed the Poll.

McCartin and Boyd have probably been the two who have attracted scorn, but they are three and two seasons respectfully behind some of the others in the Poll, and that is huge in the context of development and exposure.

McCartin due to his concussions, and Patton with two knee reconstructions I would not consider as the best possible investment long term. I personally like Joe Daniher a lot, but would be very excited to have any of the others playing for my side.

 

[Milanista28]

Boyd's best footy will come from the Ruck/Roaming role IMO.

 

[Turboman1994]

Gee there all quality young forwards in order of personal preference for me including 2MP
1. Darcy Moore kids a freak athlete good kick for goal and should fill out well

2. Schade going to guess a bit here. Loved what I seen so far very good mark, reliable set shot and should be a nice size. Will end up the best goal kicker out of the lot imo.

3. Hogan would be number one on my list does it. Just a few concerns for me over his set shot dept and attitude on field. Couple minor tweaks he rockets to number one.

4. Boyd incredible mark on song and a deadly shot for goal. Easily the best underage key forward I've seen. Just needs to put it together now.

5. Daniher I'm sorry bombers supporters. Joe is a gun in the making already a very good player. Personally feel he isn't reliable enough in front of goals ala Cloke and lacks a bit of size

6. 2MP can't believe I'm putting him here had a great season with the Suns. Set shots, good size and very capable hands.

7. The general you know it's a good list of forward when the general is 7th. Injurys and age sees the general slide back.

8. Mcartin best hands of the lot and a great kick for goal. Tad undersized compared to the rest. Again just a personal opinion

All in all these players are all special and I think all players above will all have 50 goal seasons within 3-4 years scary good crop of key forwars

 

[Big Fresh]

1. Joe Daniher
2. Jesse Hogan
3. Peter Wright
4. Patrick McCartin
5. Darcy Moore
6. Tom Boyd
7. Josh Schache
8. Jon Patton

Fairly confident with the top three and Patton at 8 but ranking McCartin, Moore, Boyd and Schache was difficult. I rate them all pretty similarly.

 

[Ambrosia]

Gee there all quality young forwards in order of personal preference for me including 2MP
1. Darcy Moore kids a freak athlete good kick for goal and should fill out well

2. Schade going to guess a bit here. Loved what I seen so far very good mark, reliable set shot and should be a nice size. Will end up the best goal kicker out of the lot imo.

3. Hogan would be number one on my list does it. Just a few concerns for me over his set shot dept and attitude on field. Couple minor tweaks he rockets to number one.

4. Boyd incredible mark on song and a deadly shot for goal. Easily the best underage key forward I've seen. Just needs to put it together now.

5. Daniher I'm sorry bombers supporters. Joe is a gun in the making already a very good player. Personally feel he isn't reliable enough in front of goals ala Cloke and lacks a bit of size

6. 2MP can't believe I'm putting him here had a great season with the Suns. Set shots, good size and very capable hands.

7. The general you know it's a good list of forward when the general is 7th. Injurys and age sees the general slide back.

8. Mcartin best hands of the lot and a great kick for goal. Tad undersized compared to the rest. Again just a personal opinion

All in all these players are all special and I think all players above will all have 50 goal seasons within 3-4 years scary good crop of key forwars

Not sure how the bolded makes any sense. I understand Daniher's older but I don't see Moore filling out anymore than Daniher has/will.

 

[Scruffy36]

McCartin is the most natural forward of the group. His body work and leading patterns are natural to him.

 

[Trav 20]

McCartin is the most natural forward of the group. His body work and leading patterns are natural to him.

Hogan, imo, is the equal to Paddy in the most natural forward stakes. He also has the smarts.

Hogan's body work for a young key forward is freakish. Players like Barry Hall have said it took them six years to use their body the way Hogan did in his first.

He's come back in phenomenal condition. Expect a big year from the lad.

 

[Skipper_]

Currently, there is no right answer to this question. Essendon fans rate Daniher as the bets, Demons fans rate Hogan as the best, etc. etc.

 

[Turboman1994]

Not sure how the bolded makes any sense. I understand Daniher's older but I don't see Moore filling out anymore than Daniher has/will.

True I can't see them being too different body size wise. I think at the same point in time moores slightly ahead better kick for goal and more xfactor. Daniher has the runs on the board and if Moore doesn't replicate a similar growth he will be rated better

 

[aussierulesrules]

8. Mcartin best hands of the lot and a great kick for goal. Tad undersized compared to the rest. Again just a personal opinion

Paddy and Hogan are listed as only being 1cm apart in height and they also have similarly sized bodies.

In fact, having seen every game that Paddy has played and seen Hogan at his best, live (was there for his 5 goal haul against us last year and his 7 against us this year- his two highest scoring games so far, to go with another 5 this year) plus seen him numerous times on TV, I actually see pretty incredible similarities in their footballing attributes and abilities and as such, I'm extremely excited to see how Paddy's goes once he's got his tank closer to where Hogan's has been so far in his career- as that is the big thing that has held him back so far, along with his concussions/injuries at inopportune times.

Due to his diabetes he said he only did about 40% of his first preseason and 80% of his 2nd, so he hasn't even done a full preseason yet. He beat Jade Gresham home in the time trial the other day though, so that's a really good sign, as is the fact he's also looking a lot more defined, physically.

Due to the timing of his injuries and concussions he also missed out on pretty much all our really comfortable wins this year (eg our 2 v Melbourne, our 2 v Carlton, the 2nd half v Collingwood (a game he'd started really well in) and the smashing of Brisbane- when Riewoldt played forward and kicked 9, because Paddy wasn't playing), which robbed him of the opportunity to really cash in on our dominance in those games.

Membrey ended up being the one to cash in in most of those games, but had Paddy been playing as well/instead of, he likely would have been the one playing deepest and as such presumably would have had a bit of a bag or two under his belt by now, as a result, and most would probably be a lot more bullish on him.

 

[Ambrosia]

True I can't see them being too different body size wise. I think at the same point in time moores slightly ahead better kick for goal and more xfactor. Daniher has the runs on the board and if Moore doesn't replicate a similar growth he will be rated better

I see x factor as a strength of Daniher's game. He's shown he can take big pack marks and kick 60m goals.

That being said I have no issue with you not rating Daniher up the top of the KPF as conversion from set shots is incredibly important.

 

[Vindicater]

Daniher flourished this previous year because he was taken further up the ground.

I think Daniher/Hogan are the clear 1/2 here and there is daylight between them and the next few guys.

 

[OnceKicked50]

i may be biased but i go with schache.
1. best set shot to come through the system in a long while. wont need many chances to kick his goals.
2. elite fitness for young key forward, which shows great dedication to his ambitions.
3. did not just rely on his size advantage to dominate under age opponents, gets to the right spots and is a very good general play kick/handball as well.
4. had a record breaking under 18 championships.
5. wanted to come to the lions to follow in his fathers footsteps, will be happy and highly motivated.

Clearly it has to be Hogan. Presently he is inconsistent, but thats only down to age and the fact Melbourne has been inconsistent the past few years. He looked a lot leaner on the news the other day so his obviously looking to improve his aerobic capacity. I'm expecting a big year by Melbourne and Hogan will stamp himself as a genuine coleman medal chance.

After Hogan, I think if McCartin gets a run at it he is a genuine full forward. He splits packs and is a very, very intelligent forward. With continuity this kid will become a star of the competition alongside Hogan for a number of years. St Kilda's plethora of young quick mids are going to love the chance to get it to him one out.

From here, I think Moore has something about him. Bit of an X-factor. He is super athletic and if he gets a run and jump at it he is hard to stop. I see a bit of Tom Lynch about him, if he can get close to that level then Pies fans will be ecstatic.

Boyd I think has come of age with his grand-final performance. A booming kick. Wouldn't be surprised to see him kick 50 in 2017.

As for the other, I have no idea how Schache has 31 votes. I just didn't see anything special from him. Lacks pace and really just drifted around barely touching the ball in most games. I understand it's his first year, and well it's Brisbane, but I just feel like he will be a good 2nd or 3rd option whereas the others on this list are long term number 1 forwards.

Daniher is an incredible mark, like Moore if allowed a run and jump, I just think his too one-dimensional. If he doesn't clunk it he has no impact as a forward. His kicking seriously lets him down too. An ideal ruck/fwd. though.

Patton. No idea.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Daniher flourished this previous year because he was taken further up the ground.

I think Daniher/Hogan are the clear 1/2 here and there is daylight between them and the next few guys.

Moore's shown as much as Daniher and is 2 years younger lol.

 

[Ambrosia]

Moore's shown as much as Daniher and is 2 years younger lol.

That simply isn't true.

Has Moore kicked 40 goals in a season? Has Moore been top 5 in contested marks in the league? Has Moore performed in finals?

I'm not even sure Moore has shown as much as Daniher of two years ago. Considering in comparison to Daniher's 2014 Moore kicked less goals, took less marks, averaged less inside 50s and averaged less scoring shots.

 

[conrad_437]

1. Hogan

Brilliant player. Fantastic mark and uses his body so well. Hope for my team and everyone else's sake that he doesn't iron out his kicking because if he does, watch out!

2. Boyd

We all saw in the GF what he could do. Great mark when he has confidence, pinpoint accuracy at goal, massive kick and has begun to really have a presence around the field. Also the only one out of these blokes that has the capability to ruck. His mobility could be better, but I still have great visions for him as a forward.

3. Moore

Really rate this guy highly. Great athleticism, good shot for goal, and great pack mark. Also has a real X-Factor about him. Collingwood have a real gem in Moore.

4. Daniher

Incredibly athletic for his size, and can really take a grab. Booming kick as well. He just needs to really get his accuracy going, as it is absolutely atrocious.

5. McCartin

Has trouble staying on the park. However, very intelligent and good mark. Bit undersized compared to the rest of these guys, but then again, so is Hogan to a point.

6. Patton

From what I've seen, hes good but he also has a few years on some of these blokes. Can mark and kick really well though from what I've seen and as begun to show himself this year.

7. Schache
Haven't really seen enough of this guy to rate him highly. I'll watch him more next season and see where he's at.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

That simply isn't true.

Has Moore kicked 40 goals in a season? Has Moore been top 5 in contested marks in the league? Has Moore performed in finals?

I'm not even sure Moore has shown as much as Daniher of two years ago. Considering in comparison to Daniher's 2014 Moore kicked less goals, took less marks, averaged less inside 50s and averaged less scoring shots.

Career averages are fairly even at this stage, I'd expect Moore to average more in 2 years time.

 

[Vindicater]

Moore's shown as much as Daniher and is 2 years younger lol.

That is flat out incorrect

 

[Frank Gallagher]

That is flat out incorrect

Look up their averages then, Moore is 2 years younger but is almost matching him, stats only slightly in Joes favour.

 

[aussierulesrules]

It's a pretty bloody exciting and talented group and you could also add Cam McCarthy to it and in time maybe Eric Hipwood and Harry McKay, perhaps even Weitering.

Membrey is also in this age bracket (22yo) and essentially plays as a "KPP", as he did in the juniors (although that may change a bit as/if Paddy plays more, and Tim's apparently been told to shed another 4kg this offseason, presumably to enable him to push up the ground more).

Kicked 44 goals from just 17 games this year, after his shoulder reco at the end of last year meant that he was able to really focus on building his tank last preseason and that seems to have made all the difference.

Averaged the 4th most marks-inside-50 per game of anyone in the comp and 6th most goals per game (at 2.6 goals per game- the most anyone in the poll in this thread averaged was 1.95 (Daniher and Hogan).

He might have a height deficiency, but he just knows how to play football and in particular up forward and just keeps on kicking goals, week after week, year after year. How he slid as far as he did in what is proving to be a bog-ordinary draft after about the first 8 or 10 (including Daniher and Viney in that) is quite mind-boggling!

 

[Andronicus]

Look up their averages then, Moore is 2 years younger but is almost matching him, stats only slightly in Joes favour.

Stats don't show everything.

 

[Skipper_]

​

Player Statistics Comparison

Joe Daniher Name Darcy Moore
Essendon Bombers Team Collingwood Magpies
Forward Position Forward
70 Career Games 26
Calder Cannons Origin Oakleigh Chargers
March 4, 1994 Date of Birth January 25, 1996
22yr 8mth Age 20yr 9mth
201cm Height 200cm
94kg Weight 94kg
2012 National Draft Last Drafted In 2014 National Draft
Round 1, Pick #10 Last Draft Position Round 1, Pick #9
Essendon Bombers Last Drafted By Collingwood Magpies

2016 Stats for Season 2016
22 Games 17
9.3 Kicks Per Game 5.6
3.9 Handballs Per Game 3.5
13.2 Disposals Per Game 9.1
6.4 Marks Per Game 4.5
2.0 Goals Per Game 1.4
1.4 Behinds Per Game 0.8
1.0 Tackles Per Game 1.7
1.6 Hitouts Per Game 0.4
3.0 Inside 50s Per Game 1.5
0.4 Goal Assists Per Game 0.6
1.4 Frees For Per Game 1.0
1.0 Frees Against Per Game 0.8
5.7 Contested Possessions Per Game 5.1
7.9 Uncontested Possessions Per Game 4.5
8.4 Effective Disposals Per Game 6.4
63.6% Disposal Efficiency % Per Game 70.3%
3.0 Clangers Per Game 1.8
2.4 Contested Marks Per Game 2.1
2.4 Marks Inside 50 Per Game 2.0
0.5 Clearances Per Game 0
0.4 Rebound 50s Per Game 0.1
1.4 One Percenters Per Game 2.0
0.1 Bounces Per Game 0
88.3 Time On Ground % Per Game 77.6
$374,000 AFL Fantasy Price $271,000
72.0 AFL Fantasy Score Per Game 52.3
$337,600 Supercoach Price $286,400
68.8 Supercoach Score Per Game 57.5

​

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Stats don't show everything.

Especially when they don't suit your argument.