Injury Nat Fyfe: Not Suffering "serious" back injury. "Ruptured disc" during general training drill.

[DudleyDocker]

I hear what you're saying but you're down playing Fyfe's significance in the middle. How valuable do you think Fyfe's midfield work was for the first half of last year's season?... Would we have even better side playing Fyfe forward? ... Arguably our greatest strength against the better sides is Fyfe’s contested work in the middle. He is the Brownlow medallist, the last two year’s MVP in that position. Thinking we can take him away from the middle and fix a hole and improve is wishful thinking.

Maybe playing him 40% forward and 60% in the middle with 100% game time is the answer. But that being said I like the idea of Fyfe floating forward more than being double teamed starting forward.

Unfortunately PurpleWizard, just having the Brownlow medallist playing in the midfield does not guarantee us any success, as has been proven in the last three years. If it was the case, then Gold Coast would have won some flags with Gary Ablett Jr running around as the most dominant midfielder for several years. I remember the Harvey days (sorry couldhavebeen) when we used to swing Pav into the middle every time we needed a lift, but what that did was left us with more chance of getting the ball but no avenue to goals when we did.

What will take us from a really competitive side to a premiership side is the ability to kick winning scores against top sides. Fyfe and co make us ultra competitive against the top sides, but being competitive in the middle then having nothing to kick to in the forward line will not get it done.

I think the recruiters have tried to stockpile quality mids so that we do have the flexibility to move guys like Fyfe around without our midfield falling to pieces. For several years now we have had one of the best tap ruckmen in the game rucking to one of the best midfielders in the game and have been caught short when the chips are really down.

We can keep doing what we have been doing and hope for a different result, or we can start thinking outside the square. I think we all acknowledge that Ross has a great game plan for getting teams to finals consistently, now he needs to add some X-factor to take the next step. I think Fyfe will play as a forward with occasional stints in the midfield, and knowing the character and work ethic of the guy I think he will excel.

 

[wayToGo_]

The thing I don't understand from those who are set on Fyfe playing as a forward is their logic for how much more he will add to our scoreboard. He is about a goal a game midfielder, so if he plays every game (as a mid) we would be looking at ~20 goals in the season. How many could we realistically expect him to kick as full time forward? 40? 50? And who is he displacing out of our forward line? Mayne? So let's say Fyfe kicks 50 (that would make him about a top 10 scoring forward in the AFL - suspect that is a stretch but let's go with it for this purpose), we then take off Mayne's ~30 goals in a season plus the ~20 Fyfe would have kicked as a midfielder and what's the outcome? Zero net gain and we lose our best contested ball winner from the middle. Now maybe I am wrong and Fyfe shifting forward opens a position for another midfielder to enter our B22 that can kick a goal a game as well but I am not aware we have someone like that on our list who is ready yet.

I am certainly not suggesting Fyfe won't play forward at all but I strongly doubt making him a full time forward would give us the extra scoring potential we desire. I think Bennell and Fyfe rotating through both the centre and half forward line gives us the best of both worlds. We retain our best ball winners playing in the middle but also add x-factor to our forward structure throughout games and therefore force the opposition to react and tweak their defensive setup. If a defence needs to shift things around then all our forwards get an advantage.

 

[malpaso]

The thing I don't understand from those who are set on Fyfe playing as a forward is their logic for how much more he will add to our scoreboard. He is about a goal a game midfielder, so if he plays every game (as a mid) we would be looking at ~20 goals in the season. How many could we realistically expect him to kick as full time forward? 40? 50? And who is he displacing out of our forward line? Mayne? So let's say Fyfe kicks 50 (that would make him about a top 10 scoring forward in the AFL - suspect that is a stretch but let's go with it for this purpose), we then take off Mayne's ~30 goals in a season plus the ~20 Fyfe would have kicked as a midfielder and what's the outcome? Zero net gain and we lose our best contested ball winner from the middle. Now maybe I am wrong and Fyfe shifting forward opens a position for another midfielder to enter our B22 that can kick a goal a game as well but I am not aware we have someone like that on our list who is ready yet.

I am certainly not suggesting Fyfe won't play forward at all but I strongly doubt making him a full time forward would give us the extra scoring potential we desire. I think Bennell and Fyfe rotating through both the centre and half forward line gives us the best of both worlds. We retain our best ball winners playing in the middle but also add x-factor to our forward structure throughout games and therefore force the opposition to react and tweak their defensive setup. If a defence needs to shift things around then all our forwards get an advantage.

We have a surplus of available and good midfielders, we do not have that luxury in the forward line. It makes sense to me to put our best aerialist and strongest contested mark into the forward line. This enables us to have more rotations in the midfield (no substitute this year and less interchanges) by having more 'midfielders' in the 22.

 

[DudleyDocker]

The thing I don't understand from those who are set on Fyfe playing as a forward is their logic for how much more he will add to our scoreboard. He is about a goal a game midfielder, so if he plays every game (as a mid) we would be looking at ~20 goals in the season. How many could we realistically expect him to kick as full time forward? 40? 50? And who is he displacing out of our forward line? Mayne? So let's say Fyfe kicks 50 (that would make him about a top 10 scoring forward in the AFL - suspect that is a stretch but let's go with it for this purpose), we then take off Mayne's ~30 goals in a season plus the ~20 Fyfe would have kicked as a midfielder and what's the outcome? Zero net gain and we lose our best contested ball winner from the middle. Now maybe I am wrong and Fyfe shifting forward opens a position for another midfielder to enter our B22 that can kick a goal a game as well but I am not aware we have someone like that on our list who is ready yet.

I am certainly not suggesting Fyfe won't play forward at all but I strongly doubt making him a full time forward would give us the extra scoring potential we desire. I think Bennell and Fyfe rotating through both the centre and half forward line gives us the best of both worlds. We retain our best ball winners playing in the middle but also add x-factor to our forward structure throughout games and therefore force the opposition to react and tweak their defensive setup. If a defence needs to shift things around then all our forwards get an advantage.

It's not just about what he kicks wayToGo_, but about the presence and threat he creates for us in the forward line. Every team will fear Fyfe in the forward line and will put not just a defender, but a key defender on him. If they don't, he will have a birthday, if they do it is one less defender that Pav will have to deal with.

Fyfe is a huge aerial threat, and even if he doesn't kick a bag of goals himself, he will create goals just by being the competitive beast he is.

We are only a couple of goals a game off the pace, I think he can help bridge that gap while Taberner and (hopefully) Apeness develop.

 

[PurpleWizard]

Unfortunately PurpleWizard, just having the Brownlow medallist playing in the midfield does not guarantee us any success, as has been proven in the last three years. If it was the case, then Gold Coast would have won some flags with Gary Ablett Jr running around as the most dominant midfielder for several years. I remember the Harvey days (sorry couldhavebeen) when we used to swing Pav into the middle every time we needed a lift, but what that did was left us with more chance of getting the ball but no avenue to goals when we did.

What will take us from a really competitive side to a premiership side is the ability to kick winning scores against top sides. Fyfe and co make us ultra competitive against the top sides, but being competitive in the middle then having nothing to kick to in the forward line will not get it done.

I think the recruiters have tried to stockpile quality mids so that we do have the flexibility to move guys like Fyfe around without our midfield falling to pieces. For several years now we have had one of the best tap ruckmen in the game rucking to one of the best midfielders in the game and have been caught short when the chips are really down.

We can keep doing what we have been doing and hope for a different result, or we can start thinking outside the square. I think we all acknowledge that Ross has a great game plan for getting teams to finals consistently, now he needs to add some X-factor to take the next step. I think Fyfe will play as a forward with occasional stints in the midfield, and knowing the character and work ethic of the guy I think he will excel.

Mr Dudley you realise we finished on top last season and were a few kicks away from playing WCE in the GF (easy win )? And we had Fyfe with a broken leg, an underdone Johnson and no McPharlin in the pre-lim. With a bit of luck things could have been a lot different.

I'm hoping RTB doesn't change that much because we have been doing pretty well. I feel tinkering something massive like playing our best midfielder forward has more chance to hurt us than improve us. Hopefully this year Pav, Sandi, Mundy and MJ can give similar output and there's growth in Neale, AP, Bennell, Sherro and others and we can have another crack it.

I don't agree with your point about Ablett too. The difference between Ablett playing and not playing is massive. I think GC went down 10 spots on the ladder when he got injured?

 

[DannyTheDoorman]

QUOTE="Allikat, post: 42503083, member: 153299"]If anyone's in Victoria they're about to put up some footage of Fyfe running today on Channel 10.[/QUOTE]
@allikat,jedi mind tricks,salim malik He didn't run when Ch10 were there they must have old footage as he has lime greenish joggers on and he is mostly in black wearing his ISC cycle shorts.He ran a definite pattern as referred to in E Shed's posting of earlier today. They did photo him leaving the ground in his Lexus and they were there a long time waiting for him to come out as he had run already. The journo who was there suggested that they were first in reporting the injury to Nat last week ahead of 7's report.

 

[DudleyDocker]

Mr Dudley you realise we finished on top last season and were a few kicks away from playing WCE in the GF (easy win )? And we had Fyfe with a broken leg, an underdone Johnson and no McPharlin in the pre-lim. With a bit of luck things could have been a lot different.

I'm hoping RTB doesn't change that much because we have been doing pretty well. I feel tinkering something massive like playing our best midfielder forward has more chance to hurt us than improve us. Hopefully this year Pav, Sandi, Mundy and MJ can give similar output and there's growth in Neale, AP, Bennell, Sherro and others and we can have another crack it.

I don't agree with your point about Ablett too. The difference between Ablett playing and not playing is massive. I think GC went down 10 spots on the ladder when he got injured?

Mr Wizard, you make some very challenging observations, and I think they have a lot of merit.

I'm not one of those who thought last season was a disaster, and I realize that we were within cooee of a flag, as we were in 2014 and also 2013. My point really was that Ross has proven over and over that he can GET a team to the finals, but as yet he has not been able to snag the big one.

At what point do we stop saying he's unlucky and acknowledge that something needs to change? All teams have injuries, and next year it is inevitable that we will have injuries, and Murphy's law says they will be at the worst possible time!

For me this issue has been and will continue to be, goal scoring capability. We can't really hope to restrict really good sides to low scores on a consistent basis - there will always be the possibility of a Rioli, Gunston or Franklin who has a blinder and scores heavily - if we can't score heavily we lose. Simple as that.

I think swinging Fyfe forward is a lot less of a change than you seem to think it is. Fyfe is one star in a midfield full of stars, Pav is one key forward in a forward line of... one key forward. I think we can cover (and have covered in the past) for Fyfe in the midfield with the guys we have, without even factoring in the boost we will get from Bennell.

For mine it's worth a try - I would rather go down trying something different than sit back at the end of 2016 and say "if only we hadn't had injuries and suspensions we might have got there".

 

[Allikat]

jedi mind tricks,salim malik He didn't run when Ch10 were there they must have old footage as he has lime greenish joggers on and he is mostly in black wearing his ISC cycle shorts.He ran a definite pattern as referred to in E Shed's posting of earlier today. They did photo him leaving the ground in his Lexus and they were there a long time waiting for him to come out as he had run already. The journo who was there suggested that they were first in reporting the injury to Nat last week ahead of 7's report.

It was definitely footage from today, just showing him running in the all-black outfit, and then kicking a ball. And of course putting completely misleading commentary over the top.
From 10 news (Melbourne):
- Nat was training away from the main group
- Feared Fyfe would require surgery to repair a bulging disc in his back
- Signs today were promising but he's expected to miss some early pre-season games

What really happened:
- The "main group" weren't even training today
- Stuff made up by the media
- More stuff made up by the media

 

[yoong]

It's not just about what he kicks wayToGo_, but about the presence and threat he creates for us in the forward line. Every team will fear Fyfe in the forward line and will put not just a defender, but a key defender on him. If they don't, he will have a birthday, if they do it is one less defender that Pav will have to deal with.

Fyfe is a huge aerial threat, and even if he doesn't kick a bag of goals himself, he will create goals just by being the competitive beast he is.

We are only a couple of goals a game off the pace, I think he can help bridge that gap while Taberner and (hopefully) Apeness develop.

The forward line need to be fixed, no argument there.

Taking the best midfielder in the competition to plug the hole feels like a raw deal though.

IMO, we are doing the right thing with Hale working with Tabs and Clarke on their marking. What about Apeness, Yarren or even Hannath? Despite not getting McCarthy, we should still have other forward options to try.

Putting Fyfe forward full time should only be a last option.

 

[PurpleWizard]

Mr Wizard, you make some very challenging observations, and I think they have a lot of merit.

I'm not one of those who thought last season was a disaster, and I realize that we were within cooee of a flag, as we were in 2014 and also 2013. My point really was that Ross has proven over and over that he can GET a team to the finals, but as yet he has not been able to snag the big one.

At what point do we stop saying he's unlucky and acknowledge that something needs to change? All teams have injuries, and next year it is inevitable that we will have injuries, and Murphy's law says they will be at the worst possible time!

For me this issue has been and will continue to be, goal scoring capability. We can't really hope to restrict really good sides to low scores on a consistent basis - there will always be the possibility of a Rioli, Gunston or Franklin who has a blinder and scores heavily - if we can't score heavily we lose. Simple as that.

I think swinging Fyfe forward is a lot less of a change than you seem to think it is. Fyfe is one star in a midfield full of stars, Pav is one key forward in a forward line of... one key forward. I think we can cover (and have covered in the past) for Fyfe in the midfield with the guys we have, without even factoring in the boost we will get from Bennell.

For mine it's worth a try - I would rather go down trying something different than sit back at the end of 2016 and say "if only we hadn't had injuries and suspensions we might have got there".

Would you trade Fyfe for Jack Riewoldt?

 

[Unique Name]

Some great arguments being made by both sides. Good reading

 

[DudleyDocker]

Would you trade Fyfe for Jack Riewoldt?

In a heartbeat. Fyfe's back is completely buggered now and I doubt we'll get another good season out of him.

Jack Reiwoldt would win us a flag next year.

 

[meima]

Mr Dudley you realise we finished on top last season and were a few kicks away from playing WCE in the GF (easy win )? And we had Fyfe with a broken leg, an underdone Johnson and no McPharlin in the pre-lim. With a bit of luck things could have been a lot different.

I'm hoping RTB doesn't change that much because we have been doing pretty well. I feel tinkering something mas

Would you trade Fyfe for Jack Riewoldt?

For freo I would trade fyfe for Jack riewolt with another first round pick, but for Richmond I don't think they want fyfe, they got crotchin and other mid coming nicely then they will have the same problem as us. In addition tiger change a bit in 2015 to make Jack not always the main forward to go to.

 

[Allikat]

Brownlow medalist wolverine > ginger that can kick goals

 

[meima]

In a heartbeat. Fyfe's back is completely buggered now and I doubt we'll get another good season out of him.

Jack Reiwoldt would win us a flag next year.

In addition playing mid with the congestion and tackle I doubt fyfe will be ready for 2017. But if people think that playing him mid at all cost without thinking about his future so be it. 2015 already miss half a season.2016 play quater a season as mid and 2017 miss all season.

 

[yoong]

In a heartbeat. Fyfe's back is completely buggered now and I doubt we'll get another good season out of him.

Jack Reiwoldt would win us a flag next year.

You must be kidding :O

IF we are trading Fyfe it has to be at least for Jeremy Cameron.

 

[DudleyDocker]

The forward line need to be fixed, no argument there.

Taking the best midfielder in the competition to plug the hole feels like a raw deal though.

IMO, we are doing the right thing with Hale working with Tabs and Clarke on their marking. What about Apeness, Yarren or even Hannath? Despite not getting McCarthy, we should still have other forward options to try.

Putting Fyfe forward full time should only be a last option.

I take your point yoong, but I think there are multiple benefits in putting Fyfe forward.

Without taking a negative viewpoint, we have tried all of Clark, Hannath, Taberner, Hannath and Griffin forward - results have been mixed. These guys will hopefully improve, and we also have some possibilities in Apeness, Hurley and some of the young kids we have recruited. I don't class Yarran as a key forward, at best he is a Mayne / Walters type.

In addition, we need to start getting some games into some / all of:

• Bennell
• Blakely
• Langdon
• Weller
• Gray

It's not like taking Fyfe out of the midfield will leave us short - and to be honest I think after the first half of last year teams had pretty much worked out the Sandi to Fyfe centre strategy and it was becoming less effective and much harder on Fyfe, as he was just getting banged up all the time.

The midfield is one small part of a full-ground strategy. The really good teams will stop a star like Fyfe, even if it means corking him or sliding into his legs.

Are you prepared to say it's season gone if Fyfe get's a serious injury next year, or if his back really is a problem that has to be managed? We will still find a way to win or at least halve the midfield battles without him, whether he is injured or kicking a shedload of goals up forward. For mine I'd love to see him "preserved" somewhat in the forward line and give the opportunity for some more stars to develop in the midfield.

 

[PurpleWizard]

For freo I would trade fyfe for Jack riewolt with another first round pick, but for Richmond I don't think they want fyfe, they got crotchin and other mid coming nicely then they will have the same problem as us.

They'd want him Meima, they've been craving an inside mid, and if you believe the rumours Richmond offered Fyfe big money.

I'll finish on... if we play Fyfe forward, we should have traded Fyfe for Hogan last year.

 

[DudleyDocker]

You must be kidding :O

IF we are trading Fyfe it has to be at least for Jeremy Cameron.

I was

Wouldn't trade Fyfe for any one player, as he is a gun midfielder who can also drift back or forward.

I also think if he's played forward he will be a far better option than Reiwold and we would also save on dummies.

 

[meima]

You must be kidding :O

IF we are trading Fyfe it has to be at least for Jeremy Cameron.

You willing but do GWS want to sell to us.

 

[meima]

They'd want him Meima, they've been craving an inside mid, and if you believe the rumours Richmond offered Fyfe big money.

I'll finish on... if we play Fyfe forward, we should have traded Fyfe for Hogan last year.

Nah fyfe not for trade , freo is a club that take care of their player when injured rather than sell him off or let his injuries go worse.

 

[Taylor]

Bennell is the superweapon for next season, he could kick 40 from the midfield/flank.

That doesn't even factor in the goals he creates for others.

When he played it made gold coast competitive almost like he dragged them along, we are already competitive.

 

[DudleyDocker]

They'd want him Meima, they've been craving an inside mid, and if you believe the rumours Richmond offered Fyfe big money.

I'll finish on... if we play Fyfe forward, we should have traded Fyfe for Hogan last year.

Thanks for your contribution to the discussion mate, it has been interesting seeing the different viewpoints.

For me the trouble with trading Fyfe for Hogan is that Hogan will only ever be a power forward.

We already have one guy who has been all-Australian backman, midfielder and power forward - I think we have another with the potential to be more than a one-trick pony...

 

[meima]

If possible I rather we manage fyfe injuries well in 2016 whether he play forward or mid does not matter as long as the role he play got lesser chance to injured him further. If playing him forward or not play him at all ,will give our baby player mature in afl (Weller ,grey ,Langdon and blakely) I would rather forget about 2016 and got a healthy fyfe in 2017.sorry pav

 

[Taylor]

Every club will offer Fyfe a huge deal but when I'm rich and buy my massive property down south way I will have a helicopter he can fly and he will sign with us.