Review Winners and Losers - 2016 AFL National Draft

[Bobby Beecroft]

Didn't compare them, I asked you how you rated Shai Boltons foot skills
SPS is widely considered the best dual side kick in this draft and it's clear he is a extremely skillful player.
You disagree, that's fine we all have our own views on things.

Cedric Cox at least equal & many believe better kicking dual sided.
Agree with the rest of your points.

 

[Moist Biscuit]

SPS is a freak and Shai Bolton is a gun. However SPS has him covered very convincingly.

 

[Rich01]

SPS is a freak and Shai Bolton is a gun. However SPS has him covered very convincingly.

You would hope so. Ones a top 5 pick, the other is a mid second rounder.

 

[Monkey King]

SPS had a disposal efficiency of 49% at the champs. Hope he's improved this somewhat over the course of the year, given he's not a ball magnet.

It would be a mistake to base a conclusion on just 2 games, his first back from an injury that saw him miss half the U18 Champs. Especially when most who've watched juniors for the last couple of years would claim his DE% in those two matches as uncharacteristic. To get a broader perspective, go watch his games as an underage player in 2015; some of his foot passes are sublime.

 

[Moist Biscuit]

You would hope so. Ones a top 5 pick, the other is a mid second rounder.

Where they were taken is irrelevant now anyway.

 

[The Bomb]

SPS looks bloody quality to me, hell kids with his sort of talent are rare.

 

[Glitch]

When Hardwick said: "We are where we are, we don't have a lot of really good players" I took it to mean that the list needed a rebuild. Maybe I'm wrong, but if your coach states publicly that your list isn't any good, but don't think it's the start of a rebuild, well... I would be very concerned about the direction of my club and that we weren't heading for a decade of mediocracy.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/richmo...-trade-period-to-rebuild-20160827-gr2r55.html

I am a bit late replying on this one.... The Tigers need to BUILD - not rebuild and I think that is what that have gone a LONG way towards this off season. The building is not over, never is, and we are all playing catchup to GWS. All of the below is conjecture until we see the reality play out...but for now.

Ty Vickery was a net -ve for us. We got salary cap relief and a 2nd rounder. We then used a 3rd rounder for a player Toby Nankervis that we needed structurally. He is a much better 'bull' defensively than Vickery. Vickery may go well at Hawthorn, but that was very unlikely to happen at RFC due to game style and history. The Hawks are probably the only team in the league he could shine. We took a player who, whilst skinny and small is a special talent in Bolton. I think it is more a matter of when he comes good, not if, and a forward line with Rioli and Bolton in it would be very scary for opposition forwards. They are both defensive minded and have a number of elite attributes (combination of speed, skill, tackling endurance).

Deledio plays 30 next year with calf injuries (often called old man injuries). We got a 1st and a 3rd rounder for him in next years draft, where there are apparently a good amount of tall options. I rate that as a big opportunity for a win (He will also probably help GWS win a premiership - so a win for them as well).

We gave up pick 6 for prestia. Pick 6 turned into pick 7. Prestia fits our list requirement perfectly. He is a bull of a mid who plays both ways. A lot of our mids are more offensive based (eg. Dusty). The players I was hoping for for when I thought giving up pick 6 was to much went before our pick. I am happy that it was a fair trade. But then..... Caddy coming to the RFC was a large part of the Prestia impact and I doubt he would have come without prestia.

Caddy we gave unders for in my opinion. Pick 26 out but in was pick 56 for 64. We used that on a bull of a mid that should have by all accounts gone higher in Jack Graham.

List cloggers, players with significant issues and also a lot of disenchantment from the coaches are now gone. No name...

The majority of the coaching staff have been replaced with quality gets. This alone with inject a new level of playing style into the group.

The net net's of all of this are a massive injection of footy talent in EXACTLY the places we need them most (2 way running mids with size and goal kicking ability) + depth players.

We have no redundancy for our big forwards or backs - but there were not any available that were likely to be that player in this years draft at our pick anyway. There was only 1 forward drafted in the top 30 and 2? defenders. So having 2 first and 2 third rounder's in next years draft also seems a win.

Overall I rate our overall draft and trade period as an enormous positive - and exactly the sort of list build (call it a minor rebuild if you will) we needed to be competitive again.

We didn't' really lose deledio from last years team as he hardly played. Then there is that fact that players like Ellis and Edwards had down years. Edwards was injured in a practice match and had other hampering hand/shoulder problems throughout the year and never really got going. Expect those two to bounce back form wise. McIntosh will also be back and he hardly played and is a key player who is quite under-rated - he is training.
Houli may start to struggle to get a game with the increased competition from younger defenders like Short and Markov who were blooded last year.

The summary is that we added significantly to our depth. We added to our elite talent. We played the trade/draft period smartly.

I don't know if the team will make the finals but they should be in with a very good chance.

 

[Testekill]

Eventually the AFL will have you being responsible for your own club, the equalisation policy won't simply be rhetoric. If GWS doesn't win a flag before then, it'll become the biggest failure in AFL history.

If players don't want to live in Brisbane, do you think they would want to live in Western Sydney if the club isn't winning premierships? It was only 15 years ago that Brisbane won 3 in a row, concessions were abolished and the rest is history.

Live it up while you can and pray GWS can win a flag during their AFL-commission owned window.

If they don't then the AFL can always extend it.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Where they were taken is irrelevant now anyway.

Except they were pretty much taken where they were rated, and nothing has happened since the draft to change their ratings.

 

[Dr Tigris]

I am a bit late replying on this one.... The Tigers need to BUILD - not rebuild and I think that is what that have gone a LONG way towards this off season. The building is not over, never is, and we are all playing catchup to GWS. All of the below is conjecture until we see the reality play out...but for now.

Ty Vickery was a net -ve for us. We got salary cap relief and a 2nd rounder. We then used a 3rd rounder for a player Toby Nankervis that we needed structurally. He is a much better 'bull' defensively than Vickery. Vickery may go well at Hawthorn, but that was very unlikely to happen at RFC due to game style and history. The Hawks are probably the only team in the league he could shine. We took a player who, whilst skinny and small is a special talent in Bolton. I think it is more a matter of when he comes good, not if, and a forward line with Rioli and Bolton in it would be very scary for opposition forwards. They are both defensive minded and have a number of elite attributes (combination of speed, skill, tackling endurance).

Deledio plays 30 next year with calf injuries (often called old man injuries). We got a 1st and a 3rd rounder for him in next years draft, where there are apparently a good amount of tall options. I rate that as a big opportunity for a win (He will also probably help GWS win a premiership - so a win for them as well).

We gave up pick 6 for prestia. Pick 6 turned into pick 7. Prestia fits our list requirement perfectly. He is a bull of a mid who plays both ways. A lot of our mids are more offensive based (eg. Dusty). The players I was hoping for for when I thought giving up pick 6 was to much went before our pick. I am happy that it was a fair trade. But then..... Caddy coming to the RFC was a large part of the Prestia impact and I doubt he would have come without prestia.

Caddy we gave unders for in my opinion. Pick 26 out but in was pick 56 for 64. We used that on a bull of a mid that should have by all accounts gone higher in Jack Graham.

List cloggers, players with significant issues and also a lot of disenchantment from the coaches are now gone. No name...

The majority of the coaching staff have been replaced with quality gets. This alone with inject a new level of playing style into the group.

The net net's of all of this are a massive injection of footy talent in EXACTLY the places we need them most (2 way running mids with size and goal kicking ability) + depth players.

We have no redundancy for our big forwards or backs - but there were not any available that were likely to be that player in this years draft at our pick anyway. There was only 1 forward drafted in the top 30 and 2? defenders. So having 2 first and 2 third rounder's in next years draft also seems a win.

Overall I rate our overall draft and trade period as an enormous positive - and exactly the sort of list build (call it a minor rebuild if you will) we needed to be competitive again.

We didn't' really lose deledio from last years team as he hardly played. Then there is that fact that players like Ellis and Edwards had down years. Edwards was injured in a practice match and had other hampering hand/shoulder problems throughout the year and never really got going. Expect those two to bounce back form wise. McIntosh will also be back and he hardly played and is a key player who is quite under-rated - he is training.
Houli may start to struggle to get a game with the increased competition from younger defenders like Short and Markov who were blooded last year.

The summary is that we added significantly to our depth. We added to our elite talent. We played the trade/draft period smartly.

I don't know if the team will make the finals but they should be in with a very good chance.

Great summary.

The tigers had a few major weaknesses - inside mids and ruck depth/backup the big ones. We filled both with trades. Replacement talls are needed for when JR and Rance get older. Hopefully get that next year.

The big thing this year's draft for the tigers was the picking of best available. That is, we got flawed players with heaps of talent at a draft pick much higher than what was expected. Bolton has a possible attitude issue, but is a human highlights package. Graham's kicking is suspect, but everything else is great - walk up AFL inside mid. Garthwaite is the best 1-1 defender in the draft, but might need development. Stengle, very small - but sublime talent. To some extent high risk high reward. To some extent bargain shopping to the max. The Lids trade might just get us a replacement quality KP next year. The overall effect of the 2016 period is a stronger list where it matters with improved quality in youth and future picks. The loss of Lids is big, TV not so much given we have similar quality back up (Griffiths).

More than changes to players is a change to playing style. If we come out aggressively attacking next year prepare to be surprised. If we come out in 2017 as in 2016 - prepare for Punt road to be surrounded by crowds with pitchforks.

 

[Milanista28]

SPS is a freak and Shai Bolton is a gun. However SPS has him covered very convincingly.

Not at AFL level.

 

[Jeremias]

Not at AFL level.

Because neither have made their debut...?

 

[Milanista28]

Because neither have made their debut...?

Pretty much, Pick 1 or pick 50 the hard work starts now, They are all equals at the top level until they play.

 

[Moist Biscuit]

Where they were taken is irrelevant now anyway.

Not at AFL level.

Pretty much, Pick 1 or pick 50 the hard work starts now, They are all equals at the top level until they play.

 

[Vindicater]

Pretty much, Pick 1 or pick 50 the hard work starts now, They are all equals at the top level until they play.

They are still rated differently and always will be. SPS will be given almost double the amount of chances as Bolton based purely on where he was taken in the draft.

Why do you think Richard Tambling was still playing so long after everyone realised he was a s**t truck.

 

[WilloTree]

I am a bit late replying on this one.... The Tigers need to BUILD - not rebuild and I think that is what that have gone a LONG way towards this off season. The building is not over, never is, and we are all playing catchup to GWS. All of the below is conjecture until we see the reality play out...but for now.

Thanks for the write-up. Very detailed and well put-together. I certainly think Caddy and Prestia are perfect for a "build". The Deledio and Vickery trades gave you guys some really valuable picks. Footy Gods would be cruel to turn Scrimshaw into an AA, mind you they do have a warped sense of humour.

 

[Joey longshadow]

Thanks for the write-up. Very detailed and well put-together. I certainly think Caddy and Prestia are perfect for a "build". The Deledio and Vickery trades gave you guys some really valuable picks. Footy Gods would be cruel to turn Scrimshaw into an AA, mind you they do have a warped sense of humour.

I have no doubt Scrimshaw will be an out and out gun. But I think our strategy was sound
In essence it was trading 6+24+64 for Prestia,Caddy and Graham ( with the swap of picks we got from 64 to 53 ,without that I don't think we would have got Graham)
Garthwaite was rated the best one on one defender in the draft but even so a pick in the 70,s is very speculative but he hates to be beaten and that's a good trait to carry into the AFL, interestingly his odd ball drop which saw him fall in the draft is allegedly a deliberate thing taught to him by his ovens and Murray club, he was renowned for his goal kicking accuracy from the 50 metre arc with one seasons figures of something ridiculous like 83 goals 10 behinds for the season from set shots, so that will be interesting to see how that pans out
And Bolton at 30 is best available with alot of up side along side Rioli with there defensive mindsets could end up being a problem for opposition sides
I think the Delidio trade though that gets us a first rd pick next draft linked to geelongs finishing position gives us 2 first rounders in a supposedly good draft for talls .the club has stated we will be looking at talls next year
Also gaining another third rounder from GWS will give us the points nessesary to pick up Patrick Naish ( father /son) he's an outside mid with some good wraps on him
And I think we will try and trade back into the second round by trading one of Edwards back to SA or B Ellis to a Vic club looking for outside run, I think we use him incorrectly at half back he hasn't the balls for it ,but he can run and carry all day on a wing
So I think the strategy is sound
But as with all things time will tell

 

[JG22]

Pretty much, Pick 1 or pick 50 the hard work starts now, They are all equals at the top level until they play.

So McGrath isnt better than Draper?

 

[Vindicater]

So McGrath isnt better than Draper?

Of course he is. Their argument is logically flawed.

If it did not matter where you were drafted once your drafted then why have a draft? Why not just randomly assign the kids to each club?

 

[Milanista28]

So McGrath isnt better than Draper?

Not at AFL level yet, I'm sure he will be though.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Of course he is. Their argument is logically flawed.

If it did not matter where you were drafted once your drafted then why have a draft? Why not just randomly assign the kids to each club?

You are entitled to draft the kid you think is best.
Once drafting him you hope you are right.
But the fact that you drafted him early does not make him better than if you didn't.
It is in fact irrelevant.
Yes Jack Watts may have got more games into him early, and Tambling may have had a longer career than he otherwise would have had ( with Adelaide clearly not believing that they all could have got it so wrong ) BUT it didn't make them better players.

Statistically if you get an early first round pick you are far less likely to have your player completely wash out. This implies that the drafting professionals are not total fools.

But History suggests that its very unlikely that the best players in a draft roll out in the order they were drafted.

2000 Nick Riewoldt . Bullseye, but i wouldn't have Kosi second above Burgoyne ( pick 12 ).
2001 Hodge and Ball were not better than Judd. Arguable if they were better than Bartel, Dal Santo, Steve Johnson, Sam Mitchel and Leigh Montagna Brian Lake.
2002 Maybe close to the picked order.
2003 Does anyone really care if they picked Farren Ray, Brock McLean, or Kepler Bradley? ( imagine the dogs fans jumping up and down, Hooray we got Farren Ray we win this draft).
2004 Haha Hawks supporters, we snatched Delidio and Tambling from your grasp , forcing you to settle for Roughead and Franklin.
2005 Josh Kennedy( the tall one ) and Pendlebury, 4 and 5.
2006 Boak pick 5 , Selwood 7, Armitage 9, Frawley 12 Tippett 32 Westhoff 71 ( Lachie Hanson anyone?)
2007 Dangerfield pick 10, Rioli 12, Rance 18, Jack Steven 42. -- Cale Morton ???
2008 Hurley pick 5, Sidebottom pick 11, Zaharakis pick 23. Naitenui at pick 2 stacks up OK i guess.
2009 Dustin Martin at 3. Talia at 13. Fyfe at 20.
2010 Heppel at 8th. Prestia 9. Issac Smith 19. Luke Parker 40.
2011 Patton at 1 is OK, but Wingard at 6 was good. Who cares! GWS won that draft no matter what.
2012 Whitfield yeah. But Toumpas, O'Rourke LOL. Wines at 7 Grundy at 18.
2013 Boyd played a single good game i suppose. Bomtempelli at 4 looks good, but no-one was noticing that until he started playing in AFL. 3 years later we still don't know how much the likes of Kelly and Billings will continue to improve. ( And talls take longer, so Boyd may still be worth it ).
2014 Seriously i still don't know who won this draft, they haven't played enough footy.

 

[vozzon]

I have no doubt Scrimshaw will be an out and out gun. But I think our strategy was sound
In essence it was trading 6+24+64 for Prestia,Caddy and Graham ( with the swap of picks we got from 64 to 53 ,without that I don't think we would have got Graham)
Garthwaite was rated the best one on one defender in the draft but even so a pick in the 70,s is very speculative but he hates to be beaten and that's a good trait to carry into the AFL, interestingly his odd ball drop which saw him fall in the draft is allegedly a deliberate thing taught to him by his ovens and Murray club, he was renowned for his goal kicking accuracy from the 50 metre arc with one seasons figures of something ridiculous like 83 goals 10 behinds for the season from set shots, so that will be interesting to see how that pans out
And Bolton at 30 is best available with alot of up side along side Rioli with there defensive mindsets could end up being a problem for opposition sides
I think the Delidio trade though that gets us a first rd pick next draft linked to geelongs finishing position gives us 2 first rounders in a supposedly good draft for talls .the club has stated we will be looking at talls next year
Also gaining another third rounder from GWS will give us the points nessesary to pick up Patrick Naish ( father /son) he's an outside mid with some good wraps on him
And I think we will try and trade back into the second round by trading one of Edwards back to SA or B Ellis to a Vic club looking for outside run, I think we use him incorrectly at half back he hasn't the balls for it ,but he can run and carry all day on a wing
So I think the strategy is sound
But as with all things time will tell

I think you guys did pretty well in the trade and draft period, added some great midfield depth to the team without sacrificing a heap of picks. The real tests is finding a few more b-grade players at either end to compliment Rance and Jack, but free agency could change a few things.

Its a good start to a list turnover without having to fully tank.

 

[desie]

If players don't want to live in Brisbane, do you think they would want to live in Western Sydney if the club isn't winning premierships? It was only 15 years ago that Brisbane won 3 in a row, concessions were abolished and the rest is history.

Live it up while you can and pray GWS can win a flag during their AFL-commission owned window.

None of the current Giants players live in Western Sydney, they all live in the same suburbs as the Swans guys.

It'll hardly be the reason they have any trouble recruiting going forward.

 

[Love the Drake]

Not at AFL level yet, I'm sure he will be though.

Huh? You say all players in the top 50 are equal as they haven't played AFL, yet you then say this about one of your players. Contradict yourself much?!

 

[Milanista28]

Huh? You say all players in the top 50 are equal as they haven't played AFL, yet you then say this about one of your players. Contradict yourself much?!

How is me having a guess contradictory? Who do you think will be better at AFL level between McGrath and Draper?