Enjoy red+black. Hopefully we can put in a good effort for you. Are you there all series?
Australian Touring Squad for India
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Enjoy red+black. Hopefully we can put in a good effort for you. Are you there all series?
Bradesmaen
TheBrownDog
Unlike the Aussies you'll probably get lots of runs in India
Biggest problem with our team is that we lack a batsman who can bowl a bit of useful stuff. Michael Clarke, Mark Waugh, Darren Lehmann types. Glenn Maxwell, Mitch Marsh, Ashton Agar etc aren't in this category, they just aren't good enough batsmen. I would have been thinking more Trav Head but he isn't over there. Steve Smith has to step up and bowl.
Steve Smith - Must bowl some overs ahla Michael Clarke, if he can contribute with the ball then we get to take an extra batsman in which is a must. Gun bat who can play spin and hugely important. His more conservative and defensive nature as captain might give him an edge over previous more attacking captains.
David Warner - Simply must go for it early while the ball is new and the quicks are on, expecting to see spin opening the bowling at some stage to counteract his approach. Top line batsman very important to the team.
Ashton Agar - Useful with the bat and useful with the ball but not a huge impact in both areas. As with all spinners would get more assistance there than here. Probably too similar player to O'Keefe.
Jackson Bird - Pro is that he is super accurate and can bowl good variations and cutters which are important over there. He's one of the more likely quicks to have success in India. Con is that it's going to be tough for any quicks.
Peter Handscomb - Old fashioned back foot player which I think is important. The ability to be on the right foot to the spinners in India is the key to batting over there, far less margin for error over there than there is here with the extra turn. Lacking experience may be a factor so must play whole series. Great fielder.
Josh Hazlewood - Pro is his accuracy and persistence will be important for him. His form is excellent. Con is that he is a bit too reliant on the seam. Making the ball seam off the wicket and swing isn't really a factor in India. He will need to have good quality cutters and changers of pace to keep the batsmen guessing. Are his cutters better than Birds?
Usman Khawaja - One of our better batsmen, was dropped very quickly after a failed match in Sri Lanka. Needs to play if he is to get better. Surely he can figure it out.
Nathan Lyon - Pro is that he is our premier spinner and has been a great player. Con is that he is too reliant on bounce being more an overspin bowler and he wont get bounce. He doesn't have any variations. He doesn't have a great record on the sub continent like he does on harder, bouncier wickets. I am tipping that he will be our worst performed spinner.
Mitchell Marsh - Good bat when the ball isn't moving, bad luck for him as it always will be moving. Bowling might be somewhat useful but with Bird and/or Hazelwood in the team we simply must lean towards a spin allrounder if we pick an allrounder at all.
Shaun Marsh - Very talented and has made runs in the subcontinent before. The risk that he gets injured mid match is always a worry but I feel he may be valuable.
Glenn Maxwell - Not sure he can offer a lot with the bat but maybe I am wrong. His bowling and fielding are the obvious advantages in playing him.
Stephen O'Keefe - I think will outperform Lyon. While he isn't going to flight or turn it as much, he has nouse and smarts coupled with some slight variation.
Matthew Renshaw - Pro is a good young bat who will gain valued experience by having played this series. Con inexperienced player who bats slowly. In Australia the batting conditions get better as the innings goes on but it's the opposite in India. I feel we need to attack early and be conservative later. Perhaps he should bat at 5 or 6? If he can use his height and channel the inner Matthew Hayden and sweep the bowlers well he could be an asset. Good slipper and has earned his place in the side.
Mitchell Starc - I'm tipping to be the least effective quick on our list. Without swing, seam or bounce his extra pace is just going to come nicely onto the bat. Can he keep his end tight? Can he bowl long enough spells? I'm not sure he'll be effective but as the leader of our attack he really needs to get the first game in him. Some quicks have had success there but it's a challenge. Other pro is that he's a good batsman.
Mitchell Swepson - Simply must play. No brainer. A young leg spinner who has proven he can be accurate, turns it and has what the other finger spinners don't really have, variation. Has the ability to make things happen. Australia threw it's long held anti-youth policy away this summer and it reaped huge rewards. It's time we stuck to our guns and backed in young and inexperienced cricketers. Potentially could be our most damaging spinner.
Matthew Wade - Pro is he is a good leader and determined but is his batting form good enough? Is he a good enough keeper? Up to the stumps a lot to some turning bowlers, it will be tough and his keeping up is always a worry for me.
Warner
Khawaja
S Marsh
Smith
Renshaw
Handscome
Wade
Starc
Lyon
Hazlewood
Swepson
Bird
O'Keefe
Maxwell
I'd go into the first test match batting heavy. I'd expect Smith to bowl a good few overs, his bowling has been accurate lately and he's likely to pick up wickets over there. First test, bowlers should be fresh and able to do a bit of extra work. I would be backing our batsmen to set a big score for them to bowl to, especially if we win the toss and bat first. Really try to make a lot of runs and win this first test and put them on the back foot early in the series and in the first innings. Then I would be looking to bring in an all-rounder as the players get tired. Probably Maxwell. Would also be looking to bring in Bird and O'Keefe for any bowler who doesn't perform in the first test, I'm tipping that will be Lyon and Starc. Might be tougher on the bowlers to not have a bowling all-rounder but it's tough to win over there and if you want to win you've got to be tough. You don't win by looking after players and babying them through, you grind it out and earn it.
I would also bat Khawaja and Warner as openers, try and get off to a fast start against the new ball and not expose Khawaja to too much spin, get him in early, he's a good opener, he's proved that. I'd put Renshaw at 5 as a bit of security in case of a batting collapse which we see from Australian sides a lot over there. He's just good at not going out! If he's developed a sweep, he could be useful against the slower bowlers/pitch.
We need to set big scores, give our bowlers plenty to bowl to and force pressure through long boring defensive bowling and bowling to tight fields. Can't blast teams out like we do here, ball just doesn't do enough.
What we need to learn are the differences between India and Australia.
Batting starts hard here and gets easier, batting in India starts easier and gets harder. So we need to start aggressive then become more measured, it's all in reverse over there, that's why I'd have a conservative opener in the lower middle order and blasters up the top.
Spinners get wickets from bounce/overspin in Australia and/or putting a lot of spin on the ball. Spinners get wicket from subtle variation and accuracy in India, not so much bounce and putting a lot of turn on it isn't that important over there.
The key to batting in India is being on the right foot. Australian batsmen are traditionally looking to get on the front foot and if they get it wrong the ball doesn't move enough to be a problem and they defend it. In India you need to be on the front foot playing it as a half volley or on the back foot playing it off the pitch. Get it wrong and it stays low, shoots through or spins too much and you're out. Footwork is far more important over there to surviving than it is here.
Beating India with that squad is a huge possibility, we just need to embrace the style of cricket and the conditions and be smart about it, forget what we know from playing cricket in Australia and select a lineup that is suitable to playing cricket there.
Steve Smith - Must bowl some overs ahla Michael Clarke, if he can contribute with the ball then we get to take an extra batsman in which is a must. Gun bat who can play spin and hugely important. His more conservative and defensive nature as captain might give him an edge over previous more attacking captains.
David Warner - Simply must go for it early while the ball is new and the quicks are on, expecting to see spin opening the bowling at some stage to counteract his approach. Top line batsman very important to the team.
Ashton Agar - Useful with the bat and useful with the ball but not a huge impact in both areas. As with all spinners would get more assistance there than here. Probably too similar player to O'Keefe.
Jackson Bird - Pro is that he is super accurate and can bowl good variations and cutters which are important over there. He's one of the more likely quicks to have success in India. Con is that it's going to be tough for any quicks.
Peter Handscomb - Old fashioned back foot player which I think is important. The ability to be on the right foot to the spinners in India is the key to batting over there, far less margin for error over there than there is here with the extra turn. Lacking experience may be a factor so must play whole series. Great fielder.
Josh Hazlewood - Pro is his accuracy and persistence will be important for him. His form is excellent. Con is that he is a bit too reliant on the seam. Making the ball seam off the wicket and swing isn't really a factor in India. He will need to have good quality cutters and changers of pace to keep the batsmen guessing. Are his cutters better than Birds?
Usman Khawaja - One of our better batsmen, was dropped very quickly after a failed match in Sri Lanka. Needs to play if he is to get better. Surely he can figure it out.
Nathan Lyon - Pro is that he is our premier spinner and has been a great player. Con is that he is too reliant on bounce being more an overspin bowler and he wont get bounce. He doesn't have any variations. He doesn't have a great record on the sub continent like he does on harder, bouncier wickets. I am tipping that he will be our worst performed spinner.
Mitchell Marsh - Good bat when the ball isn't moving, bad luck for him as it always will be moving. Bowling might be somewhat useful but with Bird and/or Hazelwood in the team we simply must lean towards a spin allrounder if we pick an allrounder at all.
Shaun Marsh - Very talented and has made runs in the subcontinent before. The risk that he gets injured mid match is always a worry but I feel he may be valuable.
Glenn Maxwell - Not sure he can offer a lot with the bat but maybe I am wrong. His bowling and fielding are the obvious advantages in playing him.
Stephen O'Keefe - I think will outperform Lyon. While he isn't going to flight or turn it as much, he has nouse and smarts coupled with some slight variation.
Matthew Renshaw - Pro is a good young bat who will gain valued experience by having played this series. Con inexperienced player who bats slowly. In Australia the batting conditions get better as the innings goes on but it's the opposite in India. I feel we need to attack early and be conservative later. Perhaps he should bat at 5 or 6? If he can use his height and channel the inner Matthew Hayden and sweep the bowlers well he could be an asset. Good slipper and has earned his place in the side.
Mitchell Starc - I'm tipping to be the least effective quick on our list. Without swing, seam or bounce his extra pace is just going to come nicely onto the bat. Can he keep his end tight? Can he bowl long enough spells? I'm not sure he'll be effective but as the leader of our attack he really needs to get the first game in him. Some quicks have had success there but it's a challenge. Other pro is that he's a good batsman.
Mitchell Swepson - Simply must play. No brainer. A young leg spinner who has proven he can be accurate, turns it and has what the other finger spinners don't really have, variation. Has the ability to make things happen. Australia threw it's long held anti-youth policy away this summer and it reaped huge rewards. It's time we stuck to our guns and backed in young and inexperienced cricketers. Potentially could be our most damaging spinner.
Matthew Wade - Pro is he is a good leader and determined but is his batting form good enough? Is he a good enough keeper? Up to the stumps a lot to some turning bowlers, it will be tough and his keeping up is always a worry for me.
Warner
Khawaja
S Marsh
Smith
Renshaw
Handscome
Wade
Starc
Lyon
Hazlewood
Swepson
Bird
O'Keefe
Maxwell
I'd go into the first test match batting heavy. I'd expect Smith to bowl a good few overs, his bowling has been accurate lately and he's likely to pick up wickets over there. First test, bowlers should be fresh and able to do a bit of extra work. I would be backing our batsmen to set a big score for them to bowl to, especially if we win the toss and bat first. Really try to make a lot of runs and win this first test and put them on the back foot early in the series and in the first innings. Then I would be looking to bring in an all-rounder as the players get tired. Probably Maxwell. Would also be looking to bring in Bird and O'Keefe for any bowler who doesn't perform in the first test, I'm tipping that will be Lyon and Starc. Might be tougher on the bowlers to not have a bowling all-rounder but it's tough to win over there and if you want to win you've got to be tough. You don't win by looking after players and babying them through, you grind it out and earn it.
I would also bat Khawaja and Warner as openers, try and get off to a fast start against the new ball and not expose Khawaja to too much spin, get him in early, he's a good opener, he's proved that. I'd put Renshaw at 5 as a bit of security in case of a batting collapse which we see from Australian sides a lot over there. He's just good at not going out! If he's developed a sweep, he could be useful against the slower bowlers/pitch.
We need to set big scores, give our bowlers plenty to bowl to and force pressure through long boring defensive bowling and bowling to tight fields. Can't blast teams out like we do here, ball just doesn't do enough.
What we need to learn are the differences between India and Australia.
Batting starts hard here and gets easier, batting in India starts easier and gets harder. So we need to start aggressive then become more measured, it's all in reverse over there, that's why I'd have a conservative opener in the lower middle order and blasters up the top.
Spinners get wickets from bounce/overspin in Australia and/or putting a lot of spin on the ball. Spinners get wicket from subtle variation and accuracy in India, not so much bounce and putting a lot of turn on it isn't that important over there.
The key to batting in India is being on the right foot. Australian batsmen are traditionally looking to get on the front foot and if they get it wrong the ball doesn't move enough to be a problem and they defend it. In India you need to be on the front foot playing it as a half volley or on the back foot playing it off the pitch. Get it wrong and it stays low, shoots through or spins too much and you're out. Footwork is far more important over there to surviving than it is here.
Beating India with that squad is a huge possibility, we just need to embrace the style of cricket and the conditions and be smart about it, forget what we know from playing cricket in Australia and select a lineup that is suitable to playing cricket there.
Fairly happy with this side, although I really think either Agar or Maxwell should have got the nod ahead of Mitch Marsh who's bowling I don't think will be as effective as either of those on this pitch.
One thing I'll say about Mitch is his batting seems to be better against spin than seam. Fingers crossed he has a break out game with the bat.
One thing I'll say about Mitch is his batting seems to be better against spin than seam. Fingers crossed he has a break out game with the bat.
eth-dog
Tier 1 WW Player
Actually has a decent record in India.
Mitch? Playing for who may I ask? Aus A?
eth-dog
Tier 1 WW Player
I meant Asia haha. Average of 33, 2 50's and only 2 scores under 10 (on debut and 9 against Sri Lanka after a 50 in the first dig).
Average of 33 is definitely nothing to write home about, but it does show he seems to like the turning pitches a bit more.
eth-dog
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For Australia it is unfortunately...
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Not a good day for the whipping boys, unfortunately.
Carlos Danger
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Just the manner of the dismissals were bad to watch. Not much fight there
Wade would want to keep well tomorrow
Long day, left hotel at 0730, we had great seats, under cover all day, we had hoped to get a box. MM better take wickets or else he's gone. Renshaw was great, wonder what he ate that made his gut crook.
No food or drink allowed in but inside the stadium bottled water is free! Food is bloody cheap, everything is $1-$4. No pass outs so bad news for smokers. No alcohol today as it was an Election Day, beer is back on tomorrow.
I'm only going to Tests 1 and 4. Ray Bright is our tour host.
No food or drink allowed in but inside the stadium bottled water is free! Food is bloody cheap, everything is $1-$4. No pass outs so bad news for smokers. No alcohol today as it was an Election Day, beer is back on tomorrow.
I'm only going to Tests 1 and 4. Ray Bright is our tour host.
We've got to pick an all rounder who'd get games in the shield as a batsman in most sides. Forget trying to get an all rounder who's almost as good as the frontline quicks. You're just going to play five bowlers and under bowl one of them if you do. Honestly if you were going to look at the top six batsmen for probably all states but Tasmania if Mitch Marsh didn't bowl he's not getting a game (after throwing internationals back in). Tbh I'm not sure he'd get a game for NSW, Victoria, SA or WA at full strength as bowler if his batting was at number 10/11 standard either. Anyway if he wouldn't get a game as a pure batsman in the shield whys he batting top six for Australia. I'd much rather get a little fight from a Henriques, Cartwright or even perhaps Stoinis and put up with them averaging 45-50 with the ball than watching M.Marsh struggle to average 20 whilst only contributing on average an extra 1.5 wickets a test.
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What food are they selling at the ground out of interest?
eth-dog
Tier 1 WW Player
Mitch Marsh is a walk up start for every state.
He is based off reputation as an all rounder but the reputation in this form of the game hasn't translated into performance. He's your classic limited overs all rounder. Jack of all trades - master of none. Can slog quick runs in limited overs cricket but can't be relied on the knuckle down if required (still well worth his spot at no.6 in the ODI, I'm not questioning that) and is a good fifth bowler when one bowler at most can only bowl 1/5 of the innings.
When we go into long form cricket though. Well he doesn't even average 30 in the shield. His numbers are genuine number eight numbers with the bat. At WA there is no way he gets a game over Wells, Bancroft (these two are openers anyway so they are kind of irrelevant to this argument anyway), Klinger, Voges, Cartwright, S.Marsh and Turner based off nothing but batting performance. It's pretty close between him and Agar and him and Whiteman as well. There's no way he gets a game over Behrendorff, Paris, NCN and Mackin as a bowler either.
Fantastic limited overs player. Easily in our best XI. But he's a fringe shield player with both bat and ball at best. Only gets a game based off our over-obsession with all rounders.
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I'm certainly not a Wade hater like a lot, I just didn't think there was a heap of other options and Nevill certainly didn't grab his chance.
But, Nevill has the most ton's in the shield now this season and is averaging mid 70's.
Patterson whilst not having the highest average in the Shield, is averaging close to 50 this year, with 1 ton and 6 50's
Renshaw
Warner
Smith
S.Marsh
Handscomb
Patterson
Nevill
Starc
Looks pretty good imo. Move Khawaja in for the Ashes and Banga's tour and decide Marsh vs Patterson on form. Finch is another worth considering based on his average in the last 36 months.
But, Nevill has the most ton's in the shield now this season and is averaging mid 70's.
Patterson whilst not having the highest average in the Shield, is averaging close to 50 this year, with 1 ton and 6 50's
Renshaw
Warner
Smith
S.Marsh
Handscomb
Patterson
Nevill
Starc
Looks pretty good imo. Move Khawaja in for the Ashes and Banga's tour and decide Marsh vs Patterson on form. Finch is another worth considering based on his average in the last 36 months.
Bradesmaen
TheBrownDog
So for all those that want Cummins in.... he's not even named to play shield this week. If he was to play in India now it'd be a joke.
- Thread starter
- #2,120
He would get a game ahead of Voges because sadly Voges is shot.
The only problem is I listed seven batsmen there. I still reckon he's slightly better than M.Marsh as a batsman alone even though I agree with you that Voges is shot. Certainly has earned himself another few chances (probably to season's end at least) through the career he has had. Wouldn't be surprised to see an end of season retirement though.
eth-dog
Tier 1 WW Player
Well actually he does; his test stats lower his batting average to what it is in FC cricket. Plus he's a far better player than Wells; who in reality has had half a good season and Voges is cooked so Mitch gets a game ahead of him too. As for the opening issue; Klinger and Marsh are both openers. WA's best XI has Mitch batting 7 behind Whiteman and ahead of Agar.
Carlos Danger
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Voges has already retired
From international cricket
Carlos Danger
Club Legend
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Sorry We're you talking about state cricket.
Yeah surely he retires from that too at end of year. WA have such a strong list of players. They can't afford to carry on with him & Klinger next year
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