Herald Sun top 25 players of the past 50 years

[Vdubs]

So none of GA snr, GA jnr, or KB were on MM's list AT ALL? Completely passed over?

It is utterly incredulous.

 

[SBYM]

Correct. Hence the other thread 'Malthouse is being stupid for the sake of it'.

Ha! Hadn't seen that.

fmd...he really has lost the plot...

 

[SBYM]

It is utterly incredulous.

I thought I could only be misreading what the OP wrote it is that ridiculous.

Seems a stable bloke, so glad we put him in charge of our list for a few years...

 

[R_Grunter]

Franklin underrated IMO, when they do one after he's done he'll be top 5, will kick over 1000 goals and is the best player of this generation a feather ahead Ablett Jnr,
Ricciuto Underrated as well would have him ahead of the likes of Sam Mitchell.

Andrew McLeod would be knocking pretty hard on that 25 door for me too.

 

[SBYM]

Andrew McLeod would be knocking pretty hard on that 25 door for me too.

It's criminal how underrated he is imo...always seems to be an afterthought.

 

[Vdubs]

It's criminal how underrated he is imo...always seems to be an afterthought.

Many Crows are.
Ever been a better lastQ GF performer than D Jarman?

 

[SBYM]

Many Crows are.
Ever been a better lastQ GF performer than D Jarman?

If there were one, he'd have to be pretty ******* special.

I'm sure Jamie Shanahan still wakes up screaming in cold sweats...

 

[footyfan1978]

Lack of tv exposure is my guess. Hard to rate a player you barely saw.

I doubt many who saw him regularly would leave him out.

We still saw enough tv coverage of footy in early 1980's to know he was something very special.
I know Melbourne was less on the football replay shows back then but we still saw how good he was in State games. Plus shows like World of Sport on Sunday on their football panel segment and also the highlights from the round showed him often. From memory he also featured heavily in the handball comp segment. He seemed to be one of the most skilled footballers either side of the body then.

 

[marty36]

We still saw enough tv coverage of footy in early 1980's to know he was something very special.
I know Melbourne was less on the football replay shows back then but we still saw how good he was in State games. Plus shows like World of Sport on Sunday on their football panel segment and also the highlights from the round showed him often. From memory he also featured heavily in the handball comp segment. He seemed to be one of the most skilled footballers either side of the body then.

There will be plenty of debate about top 25. For various reasons pre West coast each state hate champion footballers even today Barroe Robran would still be known as the best footballer ever in SA, better than Jarman, Roo, wanganeen, Blight, Kernahan yet isn't mentioned in the top 25, this would be the case with players from the WAFL also yet there are a number from the VFL listed like Matthews and Co

Then you look at players pre AFL and they sort of don't compare to the AFL system due to the fact they are full time players and simply can't compare. As years go on I think you will find the league will only recognise players from the AFL not other leagues like the VFL or SANFL or WAFL but the AFL is probably still to young for that to occur

 

[Ron The Bear]

Then you look at players pre AFL and they sort of don't compare to the AFL system due to the fact they are full time players and simply can't compare. As years go on I think you will find the league will only recognise players from the AFL not other leagues like the VFL or SANFL or WAFL but the AFL is probably still to young for that to occur

Similar could be said about cricket pre-WSC. Surely those Bradman/Trueman/Sobers blokes couldn't have been much good?

With nearly 80% of the Hall of Fame completing their careers prior to the VFL becoming the AFL, abandonment of that history is unlikely.

 

[marty36]

Similar could be said about cricket pre-WSC. Surely those Bradman/Trueman/Sobers blokes couldn't have been much good?

With nearly 80% of the Hall of Fame completing their careers prior to the VFL becoming the AFL, abandonment of that history is unlikely.

Unlikely short term but as time goes on those VFL, SANFL, WAFL leagues will be seen for what they are amatuer sport, where the guys carried a little too much weight werent proffessional enough but it it was more of a community feel. Unlike 90% of sports around the world playing ability is perception, we can see in athletics, Cycling, Swimming, Weight Lifting, any sport that has a timed or measurable result as years go by the standard increases, not sure if these sport have many world records left from 30 years ago, and if so it would be very vey very minimal

Time will do away with rating these players but as I said there is a fair bit of biased towards the VFL, which is understandable as the majority of teams in the AFL are ex VFL clubs. But it shows that SA's greatest player, a player much more recognised than Blight or any SA player in Robran cant make the top 25 and Im sure Western Australians will sight a similar situation with the legends of the WAFL

 

[Jack Bradley]

I've had a crack, going on what I saw not pure reputation obviously seeing Fitzroy week in week out means Quinlan gets pretty high on my list but Superboot was every bit as good as Carey.



1. Albert Sr.
2. Matthews
3. Williams
4. Voss
5. Carey
6. Quinlan
7. Kernahan
8. Hird
9. Albert Jr
10. Lockett
11. Blight
12. Greig
13. Judd
14. Black
15. Goodes
16. Wilson
17. Bartlett
18. McLeod
19. Buckley
20. Harvey
21. Flower
22. Brereton
23. Dunstall
24. Silvagni
25. Swann

Gawd thats a bad opinion.

 

[Pessimistic]

Slightly aside. But while elite sports have improved considerably, school records suggest kids of just a few decades ago record better times than kids nowadays. More sedentary lifestyles

 

[Ron The Bear]

Unlikely short term but as time goes on those VFL, SANFL, WAFL leagues will be seen for what they are amatuer sport, where the guys carried a little too much weight werent proffessional enough but it it was more of a community feel. Unlike 90% of sports around the world playing ability is perception, we can see in athletics, Cycling, Swimming, Weight Lifting, any sport that has a timed or measurable result as years go by the standard increases, not sure if these sport have many world records left from 30 years ago, and if so it would be very vey very minimal

Time will do away with rating these players but as I said there is a fair bit of biased towards the VFL, which is understandable as the majority of teams in the AFL are ex VFL clubs. But it shows that SA's greatest player, a player much more recognised than Blight or any SA player in Robran cant make the top 25 and Im sure Western Australians will sight a similar situation with the legends of the WAFL

Yeah, I acknowledge the shafting that SA and WA footy history gets from the AFL.

Phar Lap would be beaten out of sight by a plodder like Protectionist, but legends are legends. As Newton said, "If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."

 

[Blind Turn]

Tim Watson is the player that I rate much more than he is being given credit for. In 84/85 he was our one superstar midfielder and talismanic igniter. He was the best mid in the first half of the 80s and the player the opposition most needed to quell. After a big knee inj in 86 he came back to be a Brownlow favourite in 89 and compared with Ablett for best player in the comp at the time. He was explosive like Judd but a better kick and goal kicker. Madden was my favourite player as a kid but I concede that Timmy was our best. And most Essendon people only rate Hird ahead of him in the last 50 years.

My list is based on who I've seen. Matthews would probably be first or second if I'd seen his midfield dominance in the 70s.

25/ Goodes
24/ Roos
23/ McLeod
22/ Matera
21/ R Harvey
20/ Riewoldt
19/ Brereton
18/ Kernahan
17/ Buckley
16/ Judd
15/ Daicos
14/ Blight
13/ Franklin
12/ Quinlan
11/ S Madden
10/ Williams
9/ T Watson
8/ Voss
7/ Hird
6/ Dunstall
5/ Lockett
4/ Matthews
3/ Ablett Jr
2/ Carey
1/ Ablett Sr - Malthouse is a fool. Sure, there are many aspects that make a great player such as leadership, discipline, finals performances, teamwork/bringing others into the game, but Ablett could do things nobody could do, or probably ever will be able to do again. He is the best player I have seen.

 

[Ian Dunross]

Tim Watson is the player that I rate much more than he is being given credit for. In 84/85 he was our one superstar midfielder and talismanic igniter. He was the best mid in the first half of the 80s and the player the opposition most needed to quell. After a big knee inj in 86 he came back to be a Brownlow favourite in 89 and compared with Ablett for best player in the comp at the time. He was explosive like Judd but a better kick and goal kicker. Madden was my favourite player as a kid but I concede that Timmy was our best. And most Essendon people only rate Hird ahead of him in the last 50 years.

My list is based on who I've seen. Matthews would probably be first or second if I'd seen his midfield dominance in the 70s.

25/ Goodes
24/ Roos
23/ McLeod
22/ Matera
21/ R Harvey
20/ Riewoldt
19/ Brereton
18/ Kernahan
17/ Buckley
16/ Judd
15/ Daicos
14/ Blight
13/ Franklin
12/ Quinlan
11/ S Madden
10/ Williams
9/ T Watson
8/ Voss
7/ Hird
6/ Dunstall
5/ Lockett
4/ Matthews
3/ Ablett Jr
2/ Carey
1/ Ablett Sr - Malthouse is a fool. Sure, there are many aspects that make a great player such as leadership, discipline, finals performances, teamwork/bringing others into the game, but Ablett could do things nobody could do, or probably ever will be able to do again. He is the best player I have seen.

It's a good list

Interested in your ranking of Brereton

 

[Blind Turn]

It's a good list

Interested in your ranking of Brereton

Too high or too low?

I saw a lot of Derm at his very best. Finals performances are still a major indicator for me and he was one of the better finals performers I ever saw. But I also think 'experts' unfairly judge on 'finals above all else'. Robbie Flower only just misses this list yet it would be incredibly unfair to judge him on his 3 finals appearances.

I took this list from my top 100 since 1980;

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/top-100-players-since-1980.1042878/#post-31100143

 

[Ian Dunross]

Too high or too low?

I saw a lot of Derm at his very best. Finals performances are still a major indicator for me and he was one of the better finals performers I ever saw. But I also think 'experts' unfairly judge on 'finals above all else'. Robbie Flower only just misses this list yet it would be incredibly unfair to judge him on his 3 finals appearances.

I took this list from my top 100 since 1980;

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/top-100-players-since-1980.1042878/#post-31100143

Too high, but I was too young to see any of him live

Finals is a good barometer

But he got to play 20 odd finals, whereas most players won't get near that thru no fault of their own

 

[Blind Turn]

Too high, but I was too young to see any of him live

Finals is a good barometer

But he got to play 20 odd finals, whereas most players won't get near that thru no fault of their own

Derm slowed down significantly in his late 20s. Prior to that he was both athletic and tough. But he also had courage to go with skill. Later on he was just a thug. I think he may have had hip issues amongst other things toward the end. I can't think of a shorter CHF either other than Baldock (and Alwyn Davey).

I hated Derm for the most part just as I did Williams. But I am objective enough to acknowledge their standing in the game

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Tim Watson is the player that I rate much more than he is being given credit for. In 84/85 he was our one superstar midfielder and talismanic igniter. He was the best mid in the first half of the 80s and the player the opposition most needed to quell. After a big knee inj in 86 he came back to be a Brownlow favourite in 89 and compared with Ablett for best player in the comp at the time. He was explosive like Judd but a better kick and goal kicker. Madden was my favourite player as a kid but I concede that Timmy was our best. And most Essendon people only rate Hird ahead of him in the last 50 years.

My list is based on who I've seen. Matthews would probably be first or second if I'd seen his midfield dominance in the 70s.

25/ Goodes
24/ Roos
23/ McLeod
22/ Matera
21/ R Harvey
20/ Riewoldt
19/ Brereton
18/ Kernahan
17/ Buckley
16/ Judd
15/ Daicos
14/ Blight
13/ Franklin
12/ Quinlan
11/ S Madden
10/ Williams
9/ T Watson
8/ Voss
7/ Hird
6/ Dunstall
5/ Lockett
4/ Matthews
3/ Ablett Jr
2/ Carey
1/ Ablett Sr - Malthouse is a fool. Sure, there are many aspects that make a great player such as leadership, discipline, finals performances, teamwork/bringing others into the game, but Ablett could do things nobody could do, or probably ever will be able to do again. He is the best player I have seen.

it's this reason that i think franklin will be the goat forward when it's all said and done. the word you're looking for to describe that type of player is 'transcendent'. many players were consistently great but the ability to do something that other's can't is what separates the greats from the goats

 

[Blind Turn]

it's this reason that i think franklin will be the goat forward when it's all said and done. the word you're looking for to describe that type of player is 'transcendent'. many players were consistently great but the ability to do something that other's can't is what separates the greats from the goats

I agree with the sentiment here but I think the thing that will be held against Franklin in regards to GOAT is that he lacks the marking genius of a Coleman, Ablett, Carey, Jezza, etc. Other aspects of his game are transcendent, for sure but he is only adequate overhead.

 

[royboy2]

Gawd thats a bad opinion.

No that would be passing judgement on a player I never saw play

 

[Ian Dunross]

Derm slowed down significantly in his late 20s. Prior to that he was both athletic and tough. But he also had courage to go with skill. Later on he was just a thug. I think he may have had hip issues amongst other things toward the end. I can't think of a shorter CHF either other than Baldock (and Alwyn Davey).

I hated Derm for the most part just as I did Williams. But I am objective enough to acknowledge their standing in the game

Appreciate the response

Having not seen him play I must rely on goals kicked, marks, games won off own boot

In terms of the former 2, Kernahan and Riewoldt would be comfortably ahead of Brereton

In terms of the latter, he must have won a lot of games off his own boot to have outperformed both Kernahan and Reiwoldt

As an uninformed observer that's why it is surprising to me to see him ranked in the middle of these 2 champions

Not to mention Matera and McLeod who at different times were the best players or best few players in the competition

As I say, I can't comment having not seen him live

 

[Blind Turn]

Appreciate the response

Having not seen him play I must rely on goals kicked, marks, games won off own boot

In terms of the former 2, Kernahan and Riewoldt would be comfortably ahead of Brereton

In terms of the latter, he must have won a lot of games off his own boot to have outperformed both Kernahan and Reiwoldt

As an uninformed observer that's why it is surprising to me to see him ranked in the middle of these 2 champions

Not to mention Matera and McLeod who at different times were the best players or best few players in the competition

As I say, I can't comment having not seen him live

There's also this thing called presence which I believe Brereton had in spades. Of course the others did too but Derm made others perform at a higher level and made things happen around him. It's possible I have overrated him, like anything with a subjective inevitability, but when you played Hawthorn in the mid to late 80s he was more influential than Dunstall.

 

[Thrawn]

Tim Watson is the player that I rate much more than he is being given credit for. In 84/85 he was our one superstar midfielder and talismanic igniter. He was the best mid in the first half of the 80s and the player the opposition most needed to quell. After a big knee inj in 86 he came back to be a Brownlow favourite in 89 and compared with Ablett for best player in the comp at the time. He was explosive like Judd but a better kick and goal kicker. Madden was my favourite player as a kid but I concede that Timmy was our best. And most Essendon people only rate Hird ahead of him in the last 50 years.

My list is based on who I've seen. Matthews would probably be first or second if I'd seen his midfield dominance in the 70s.

25/ Goodes
24/ Roos
23/ McLeod
22/ Matera
21/ R Harvey
20/ Riewoldt
19/ Brereton
18/ Kernahan
17/ Buckley
16/ Judd
15/ Daicos
14/ Blight
13/ Franklin
12/ Quinlan
11/ S Madden
10/ Williams
9/ T Watson
8/ Voss
7/ Hird
6/ Dunstall
5/ Lockett
4/ Matthews
3/ Ablett Jr
2/ Carey
1/ Ablett Sr - Malthouse is a fool. Sure, there are many aspects that make a great player such as leadership, discipline, finals performances, teamwork/bringing others into the game, but Ablett could do things nobody could do, or probably ever will be able to do again. He is the best player I have seen.

Decent list but I think Franklin is too high.