List Mgmt. The 2017 Draft & Trade Hypotheticals Thread (cont. in Part II)

[Angry Red Bull]

No offence but I think that is a really soft argument. Is there any evidence of this occurring that you can think of?

Yes an interview with Harley last year when he said exactly that

 

[6yearsold]

Yes an interview with Harley last year when he said exactly that

That is not an example, that is someone saying something might (but never has) occur. Was he talking about Jetta's morale or the teams? Where is this interview?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

That is not an example, that is someone saying something might (but never has) occur. Was he talking about Jetta's morale or the teams? Where is this interview?

He was talking about mitchell in particular but went on to discuss swans philipsophy about players leaving and how swans try and help them get what they want.

How does it affect the other players? Because if they see mean spirited behaviour blocking or aggravating a player movement then they will realise it can easily be done to them

 

[6yearsold]

He was talking about mitchell in particular but went on to discuss swans philipsophy about players leaving and how swans try and help them get what they want.

How does it affect the other players? Because if they see mean spirited behaviour blocking or aggravating a player movement then they will realise it can easily be done to them

Still no example of how seeking a fair trade affects team morale only supposition. It's only alright to get them what they want if they do likewise.

So players are looking at other teammates being traded as some pointer to when they intend to leave? Once more no evidence. Further, the opposite is just as likely to occur if they are thinking of leaving. That is, they see how difficult it is so re-sign.

 

[Tuco]

A player leaving not getting to the club of their choice or getting their through the draft affects the remaining members of the team? Wouldn't it affect the player leaving? What does Dane rampe care if Jetta goes to free, wc or Melb? As for draftees they are either willing to come or not. If they are already thinking of how they could get out of here in two years time if chosen who gives a f... about their feelings.

I don't think it works quite that way. I do think the club simply offers to make its best endeavours to help them.

ROK was a great example. We tried to get him to Vic. But a suitable trade didn't eventuate. ROK was ultimately then happy to re-sign knowing we tried.

We don't actively tell players we're happy for them to leave to protect their feelings. We just don't get hysterical about it if they do decide to go.

Our reputation as a fair trading club is based on this premise.

But I do think our due diligence on draftees is dependent upon them being happy to move to Sydney to begin with.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Still no example of how seeking a fair trade affects team morale only supposition. It's only alright to get them what they want if they do likewise.

So players are looking at other teammates being traded as some pointer to when they intend to leave? Once more no evidence. Further, the opposite is just as likely to occur if they are thinking of leaving. That is, they see how difficult it is so re-sign.

Ok if you believe that then we can agree to disagree. Pyschology and the way an employer treats it's employees (even those leaving) is always important to culture of a club. I can't prove it to you, but it is. Look at the way GCFC treated omeara trade as an example. Coach making negative comments GM doing likewise and it destroys a culture.

 

[6yearsold]

I don't think it works quite that way. I do think the club simply offers to make its best endeavours to help them.

ROK was a great example. We tried to get him to Vic. But a suitable trade didn't eventuate. ROK was ultimately then happy to re-sign knowing we tried.

We don't actively tell players we're happy for them to leave to protect their feelings. We just don't get hysterical about it if they do decide to go.

Our reputation as a fair trading club is based on this premise.

But I do think our due diligence on draftees is dependent upon them being happy to move to Sydney to begin with.

i wasn't supposing it did work that way, i was just saying you can't assume it goes one way or the other, if either.

we are really fair to other clubs at our expense and it has zero to do with morale as far as i can see.

 

[6yearsold]

Ok if you believe that then we can agree to disagree. Pyschology and the way an employer treats it's employees (even those leaving) is always important to culture of a club. I can't prove it to you, but it is. Look at the way GCFC treated omeara trade as an example. Coach making negative comments GM doing likewise and it destroys a culture.

psychological motives can be proven through many means, not the least experience.

Look at the way GCFC treated omeara trade as an example. Coach making negative comments GM doing likewise and it destroys a culture.

This is beyond being ridiculous.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

psychological motives can be proven through many means, not the least experience.

Look at the way GCFC treated omeara trade as an example. Coach making negative comments GM doing likewise and it destroys a culture.

This is beyond being ridiculous.

They have a culture where players want to leave at first opportunity and it arises from the top down to coaches. They were irate as though their precious toy was being taken away. Ridiculous? Sorry no. Not ridiculous at all.

Like I said we can agree to disagree but please don't tell me my thoughts are ridiculous

 

[Mick Oxlong]

Cool story!

 

[6yearsold]

They have a culture where players want to leave at first opportunity and it arises from the top down to coaches. They were irate as though their precious toy was being taken away. Ridiculous? Sorry no. Not ridiculous at all.

Like I said we can agree to disagree but please don't tell me my thoughts are ridiculous

to directly link comments around the omeara or any trade in itself to the destruction of their culture is not borne out by any evidence. how are they looking post omeara trade? where is the evidence this trade has destroyed their culture? are there on-field performances any worse? have they had more or less off-field incidents?

what do you even really know about their culture? if you counted up the amount of off field incidents gc have had as compared with hawthorn over the same time period there would hardly be any difference.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

to directly link comments around the omeara or any trade in itself to the destruction of their culture is not borne out by any evidence. how are they looking post omeara trade? where is the evidence this trade has destroyed their culture? are there on-field performances any worse? have they had more or less off-field incidents?

what do you even really know about their culture? if you counted up the amount of off field incidents gc have had as compared with hawthorn over the same time period there would hardly be any difference.

I'm not going to do a detailed analysis Of retention/ trade etc for GC to 'prove' to your satisfaction what I already know from my understanding of behaviour and observation. An employer who treats his employees that way WILL have internal strife in culture. it's self evident that they will. In a sense it's why we are a strong retention club. Rarely do we lose who we want to keep. We are also a destination club. Those that go usually do so reluctantly and for cap issues and money not disenchantment.

 

[McRobie]

Surely we've got to be inquiring about Hopper given hie is a nsw boy? Wouldn't cost that much and we'd get a fair deal in exchange.


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[anotherletdown]

This will be controversial but it's a no for me on Hopper. He's a good player and worth a first rounder to someone but for me he just lacks too much in agility and acceleration plus I think Dawson is going to eventually break through and play that beast in the middle role

 

[BloodySwan]

This will be controversial but it's a no for me on Hopper. He's a good player and worth a first rounder to someone but for me he just lacks too much in agility and acceleration plus I think Dawson is going to eventually break through and play that beast in the middle role

Agreed, we'd struggle to fit another mid into our team. Jack, McVeigh and Grundy will be the next batch of players to leave and those roles should be the ones we are focusing on replacing. Grundy especially - despite Aliir & Johnson looking like viable replacements I wouldn't bulk at us going after another key tall over another strong midfielder

 

[Syd]

psychological motives can be proven through many means, not the least experience.

Look at the way GCFC treated omeara trade as an example. Coach making negative comments GM doing likewise and it destroys a culture.

This is beyond being ridiculous.

Your are under the assumption that there was a 'Culture" to be destroyed to start with.

 

[RUNVS]

Surely we've got to be inquiring about Hopper given hie is a nsw boy? Wouldn't cost that much and we'd get a fair deal in exchange.


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I'd give our first rounder for Hopper in a second. I think he would cost more than that though as he went for pick 7 two years ago and GWS would want at least pick 7 in return.

 

[anotherletdown]

Agreed, we'd struggle to fit another mid into our team. Jack, McVeigh and Grundy will be the next batch of players to leave and those roles should be the ones we are focusing on replacing. Grundy especially - despite Aliir & Johnson looking like viable replacements I wouldn't bulk at us going after another key tall over another strong midfielder

IMHO we're very well covered. I'd be holding fire on a KPD. We're covered with Melican, AJ, Maibaum, Aliir and Talia, just need to let the development take its course.

KPF is another issue. If Reid goes then I'd be all over Brander, he's a legitimate swing man and an ideal replacement. I Think we still need to get another forward onto our list just for depth reasons as Dawson has become more a midfielder than forward and I'm not sold on Rose

 

[anotherletdown]

I'd give our first rounder for Hopper in a second. I think he would cost more than that though as he went for pick 7 two years ago and GWS would want at least pick 7 in return.

Rumours are that they'd take anything first round - remembering that they don't have one this year. They're much more interested in Kennedy and their most recent additions so Hopper becomes expendable

They'll also get a decent mid through the academy (out of Canberra, so he's a must take for marketing and future goodwill) this year.

 

[swansfan51]

Hopper is a gun, it would be like adding another Mills. Would take him in a heartbeat and for the same reason I'd say we have no chance

 

[sataris]

Hopper is a gun, it would be like adding another Mills. Would take him in a heartbeat and for the same reason I'd say we have no chance

Laidler for Hopper

 

[Tedeski]

If we do something similar to last year where we traded pick 14(Tommy), 17 & 31 (after swaps) for picks 9, 19, 49.

Now should we lose both Jones & Reid, we will gain a top ten pick for Jones & perhaps a late first for Reid along with pick 18() we get for winning the p'ship.

So you can see how by giving something up, we can position ourselves brilliantly going forward should we wish to strike for someone of Hopper's status who would be an improvement on Jones going forward & we would have to pay 600K plus each to keep Jones & Reid. $2.5M for 5 years for Hopper for example is just a no brainer should he wish to stay in NSW & be a Swan but I think he'd make the move for less.

I'm over the Fyfe & Martin deals now!
I want Hopper!

 

[Cadsky]

If we do something similar to last year where we traded pick 14(Tommy), 17 & 31 (after swaps) for picks 9, 19, 49.

Now should we lose both Jones & Reid, we will gain a top ten pick for Jones & perhaps a late first for Reid along with pick 18() we get for winning the p'ship.

So you can see how by giving something up, we can position ourselves brilliantly going forward should we wish to strike for someone of Hopper's status who would be an improvement on Jones going forward & we would have to pay 600K plus each to keep Jones & Reid. $2.5M for 5 years for Hopper for example is just a no brainer should he wish to stay in NSW & be a Swan but I think he'd make the move for less.

I'm over the Fyfe & Martin deals now!
I want Hopper!

Yes but Sydney hasn't given up on Martin. Plus why can't we have both?

Our shopping list is getting better and better by the day!

Out: Reid, Jones
In: Dusty, Package, Casbolt, Hopper

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I'd trade our first in 2 seconds for Hopper. Exactly the mid we need

 

[Deccas]

I really would be annoyed if either of them left. We have put a heap of development into jones and he is just what we have needed for a long time : pace and foot skills. On top of that he is tough. It is notoriously difficult to get a good key forward outside the first round or even the top 10. Reid would be a massive loss. We would either have to play tippet and buddy together or turn one of our key defenders in the neafl into a forward if we did not recruit an immediate option. I believe they are both worth top ten picks but we usually bend over ever so slightly in trades, eg, there is no way Mitchell was not worth a top ten pick. If the club had any foresight hawthorns pick this year would be ours and as it stands that would of been fairer. Another recent example, Jetta for Sinclair. For those arguing he wants to go home and has us over a barrel forget it. I would of been happy for the club to say to Lewis, you're going to the draft. The difference would of only been Sinclair. It would have set a standard, regardless of the outcome. As it stands, because of these two trades, other teams would be right to think we are an easy target.

As an aside, in the event they both leave, I predict we will give away our first round pick and Sam Reid to Collingwood for their first rounder. I think Melbourne have a heap of inside midfielders but no pace in the middle. Jones will go for their first rounder. Another two reamings.

I think we benefit more by setting the standard that we will do well by our players and their lives outside of football than we ever could being absolute hardarses about trades.