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Mr Franklin is good, Mr Carey was f...n good.
Has Lance Franklin surpassed Wayne Carey as the greatest key forward of the modern era?
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Carey far better.
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- #228
Sorry - my question was 'what do you think I've argued?'
What do you understand my argument to be?
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- #229
Yeah. You can.
Why can't they be compared?
They're both super athletic key forwards who played a hybrid CHF/FF role?
People compare players with different attributes all the time. How many times have you seen a Voss v Hird v Buckley discussion? They were all distinct players but it shouldn't stop people offering a general assessment of who was the best of the bunch.
This weird reflex some people have that you "can't compare" is one of the weirdest things I've encountered on BigFooty in a while. Especially when we're talking about two super athletic key forwards who played a hybrid CHF/FF role. A comparison really isn't that much of a stretch.
How similar do two players need to be before a comparison is viable?
In what sense is he not a KPP?
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You know what?
I really couldn't care less anymore, you don't seem to want to listen to anyone else.
If someone has a different opinion to you, you seem to go into meltdown.
So just savour the poll, it might change into your favor in 10 years or so.
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- #231
Are you sad?
OK. So you acknowledge his unique combination of size and athleticism.
His unique combination of size and athleticism, which you acknowledge, makes him harder to contain than big guys who can't match his athleticism or athletic guys who can't match his size.
Because it's a unique combination. And that's advantageous.
This seems to me like the most straightforward observation in the world.
This analogy demonstrates nothing.
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- #232
Yeah, that doesn't mean he was the best outside midfielder in the league that year.
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- #233
I've listened to you. And I've pointed out specifically how you're misguided, and specifically where your argument fails.
You, on the other, say you don't even care enough to understand my argument.
That's quite telling.
Hardly. I've responded point by point to what you've said.
I'm not sure what point you think you're making here.
Lol, you said that Ablett was only a key forward in the latter part of his career.
I tried to explain that it was just wrong, but you would have no part in it.
Let me just ask this.
Who do you think Geelong targeted most when going forward?
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The things that his size should allow him to do - which I've mentioned - he doesn't really do, not at a champion level anyway. I can't put it any more simply than that.
Any player with a huge motor and gun speed is difficult to contain regardless of size.
If anything, his combination of remarkable athleticism with his frankly sensational skills (save for his set shots) is a bigger part of what makes him a gun than his size.
Summer Nights
Norm Smith Medallist
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- #236
Matthew Lloyd won more games off his own boot than Buddy, even if he was a traditional full forward.
Buddy's longevity is impressive but how many times has he really dragged his team across the line in key games post 2008? Not a whole lot.
Lance will be an all-time great but he simply doesn't have the influence on a game's outcome that Lloyd and Carey had.
Buddy's longevity is impressive but how many times has he really dragged his team across the line in key games post 2008? Not a whole lot.
Lance will be an all-time great but he simply doesn't have the influence on a game's outcome that Lloyd and Carey had.
Great topic. As a North supporter I saw Carey play a lot and obviously rate him very highly but I rate Franklin very high too. If, and its a big If, Franklin can maintain his form and body for the next 3 years and get to a 1000 goals then I think i would be inclined to agree that he has past Carey. So my vote would be not yet but he could if things work out. I think the day Buddy kicks his 1000th goal some people are going to realise that we have seen one of the greats and maybe even the greatest.
Also some people said that Carey carried an average North team which other people have denied. It should be noted that in 1997 Carey went down and hurt his shoulder in round 1 against Melbourne and only played a handful of games and was no where as good as had been (until the final against Geelong when he kicked 7 out of 11 in the rain). In that season Nth finished 7th on the home and away ladder but still made the prelim which was by far their lowest finishing position in that dominant era.
Also some people said that Carey carried an average North team which other people have denied. It should be noted that in 1997 Carey went down and hurt his shoulder in round 1 against Melbourne and only played a handful of games and was no where as good as had been (until the final against Geelong when he kicked 7 out of 11 in the rain). In that season Nth finished 7th on the home and away ladder but still made the prelim which was by far their lowest finishing position in that dominant era.
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- #238
Yes. That's true. He moved from a wing/HFF to FF in 1993.
Therefore, he only became a key forward in the latter part of his career.
Which part of that is wrong?
Yeah, because your explanation involved an absurd interpretation of the phrase "key forward".
That would depend on which year we're talking about and the game situation.
There's no doubt Ablett was an incredibly dangerous forward throughout his career. But he only transitioned to becoming a full-time FF in 1993. That's when he became a key forward.
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- #239
But you've already acknowledged he has a unique combination of size and athleticism.
That makes him even harder to contain. That's the point. Those attributes combined in one player are incredibly rare and make him the player he is.
See above.
On one hand you acknowledge his unique combination and size and athleticism. On the other hand, you downplay it.
Ok then, no use arguing with you.
I will just leave with, best forward in the modern era = Ablett.
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- #241
That is undoubtedly true in your case.
A fitting sign-off. As persuasive and well-reasoned as all your other posts.
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Norm Smith Medallist
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- #242
Can you shut up? The kind of relentless arguing is like that crap on the SRP board.
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- #244
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If I see the phrase 'unique combination of size and athleticism' again I could very well neck myself.
Expecially given that a useless prick like Rhys Stanley proves that it isn't such a unique combination anyway
Expecially given that a useless prick like Rhys Stanley proves that it isn't such a unique combination anyway
Have fun with your poll mate, it's looking like most agree with you.
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- #247
His unique combination of size and athleticism makes him harder to contain than if he were just big or just athletic.
Yeah, wow, your cross-examination is so punishing.
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Have fun with your poll mate, it's looking like most agree with you.
He's been having fun with his pole for a while now
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- #249
You assume that was the objective?Have fun with your poll mate, it's looking like most agree with you.
Again, revealing.
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