Autopsy Geelong QF loses to Richmond by 51 points

[catswhiskers]

I'm really not sure that allowing Menegola more opportunities to fumble, hold onto the ball too long and make basic skill errors would have made us better off.

Selwood struggled last night but Menegola was putrid. Was close to the worst on ground in the first quarter.

Until Menegola can show he is ready to handle the intensity of finals footy he should not be anywhere near the middle.

Being played out of position has been a cross he has had to bear all his career. We got it right when Selwood was injured and he spent a lot more time on ball. In the GWS game he started on ball in the first quarter and had 11 possies by quarter time . That says it all for me.

If we think he is a forward we have a good VFL player. If we play him in defence we probably have a good VFL player too. Play him on ball and we have an AFL player. Its a no brainer. How good an AFL player we have to find out over the next 20 games.

 

[Mahlepi]

Menegola must play on ball. Leaving him up forward is a waste.

So is not playing your captain and A grade mid.

The MC must use some smarts and get the best out of those two, not the worst.

We need to be prepared to back him in more and danger forward
Roll the dice

 

[Pack Specialist]

Menegola must play on ball. Leaving him up forward is a waste.

So is not playing your captain and A grade mid.

The MC must use some smarts and get the best out of those two, not the worst.

Or we could not take underdone players into a QF.

Selwood should have put his hand up not to play.

 

[Pack Specialist]

We need to be prepared to back him in more and danger forward
Roll the dice

We need to do something.

If we do what we've always done, we'll get what we always got...

 

[Whyswun]

I hate too much in life to hate my footy club. I'll take the positives.

We don't have another bye and get to play consistently which is an advantage.
Our younger/inexperienced guys lost a big final, yet get to back it up next week rather than wait a whole season.
We learnt who we can rely on and who are the genuine front runners.
We are the underdog against everyone now except maybe Essendon, which is good for us (I think)

Man there isn't many positives... Any help?

Well said. Good chance it was a one off bad performance. Get over Swans next week who are due for a loss & we have Adelaide In Adelaide where we play well

 

[Sticksman]

Or we could not take underdone players into a QF.

Selwood should have put his hand up not to play.

If he felt fine pre game why should he have withdrawn? If he had withdrawn there's an argument that his season was over due missing too much game time. If he and the medicos said he was good to go then he had to play.

 

[McRobie]

The AFL have just announced the games for next weekend.

The losers of the Qualifying Finals, the Giants and Geelong get "home" games against the winners of the Elimination Finals. The Giants will host the Eagles at their home ground Spotless Stadium on Saturday. Geelong will host the Swans at the neutral venue, the MCG on Friday night. Consistent????

The reason Geelong do not get a home game has nothing to do with fairness, equity or consistency. It is because the AFL does not have any other team playing at the MCG and to make more money Geelong has to sacrifice its home ground for the sake of the AFL. For consistency the AFL should make the Giants and the Eagles also play their game at the MCG.

Giants should be at scg or ANZ then.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Sticksman]

Giants should be at scg or ANZ then.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

That's been my thinking all along. That would make me feel the AFL were at least trying to be seen as 'fair'.

 

[Pack Specialist]

If he felt fine pre game why should he have withdrawn? If he had withdrawn there's an argument that his season was over due missing too much game time. If he and the medicos said he was good to go then he had to play.

That's BS IMO.

Felt "fine"?

His season would not be over, an extra week to recover was obviously needed.

He had zero impact on the game and was a terrible idea in hindsight.

 

[steady2]

Giants should be at scg or ANZ then.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

The Giants qualified for a home game. Why should they play against the Eagles at the Swans home ground or a neutral ground?

 

[Whyswun]

What a master stroke by Scott & Co! They knew it would be hard to win a prelim coming off a bye so dropped 2 forwards for reasons which sounded credible. Hoping for a loss. We play much better as underdogs so in a good position to win next week. Good record in Adelaide for the prelim. Much better route to a flag now than if we had beaten Tigers.

 

[year of the cat]

It would be nice of Chris Scott to come out and take some ownership over the debacle that happened on Friday night. Perhaps I'm wrong but I can't recall him ever offering that he coached poorly in any of our finals losses - the playing group may even respond positively to such a statement that they don't bear total responsibility for the result.

 

[steady2]

That's been my thinking all along. That would make me feel the AFL were at least trying to be seen as 'fair'.

The AFL are not being fair. You mean if they extend their double standards to the Giants as well as us, that would make them "fairer"!!! To be completely fair there should be no "home" games and each side must play at a neutral venue, or alternatively the same right to a home final should apply to all teams equally, it's not rocket science.

 

[McRobie]

The Giants qualified for a home game. Why should they play against the Eagles at the Swans home ground or a neutral ground?

You're missing my point. I'm saying if cats have to play mcg to attract bigger numbers so should Giants. Of course both sides should be at their respective home grounds.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[geelong_boy]

It would be nice of Chris Scott to come out and take some ownership over the debacle that happened on Friday night. Perhaps I'm wrong but I can't recall him ever offering that he coached poorly in any of our finals losses - the playing group may even respond positively to such a statement that they don't bear total responsibility for the result.

As catempire pointed out, how is Scott responsible for our contested ball numbers, kicking efficiency, inside 50 count and inside 50 tackles? Fair enough the Menzel non selection can be a criticism given we lost but we don't know if gameplan instructions were followed.

 

[steady2]

You're missing my point. I'm saying if cats have to play mcg to attract bigger numbers so should Giants. Of course both sides should be at their respective home grounds.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

The reason Geelong have to play the MCG is because the AFL has a deal to include the MCG in any finals played if possible, nothing to do with numbers. But you are right, if it was related to bigger numbers then of course the clubs with smaller home grounds would not receive the equity of any home final, which would entrench the unfairness and inconsistency of the decisions. That would also mean the Docklands (Etihad) would not host any finals unless almost all the finalists are Melbourne clubs; not going to happen.

 

[year of the cat]

As catempire pointed out, how is Scott responsible for our contested ball numbers, kicking efficiency, inside 50 count and inside 50 tackles? Fair enough the Menzel non selection can be a criticism given we lost but we don't know if gameplan instructions were followed.

When our game plan breaks down time and again in finals then it has to be a symptom of the coaching. EVERYONE is culpable. Not just the players.

 

[mcwilrob]

It would be nice of Chris Scott to come out and take some ownership over the debacle that happened on Friday night. Perhaps I'm wrong but I can't recall him ever offering that he coached poorly in any of our finals losses - the playing group may even respond positively to such a statement that they don't bear total responsibility for the result.

Absolutely - never takes any responsibility for the absolute WEAKEST part of his record - coaching in finals....

 

[Partridge]

It would be nice of Chris Scott to come out and take some ownership over the debacle that happened on Friday night. Perhaps I'm wrong but I can't recall him ever offering that he coached poorly in any of our finals losses - the playing group may even respond positively to such a statement that they don't bear total responsibility for the result.

This is not just on Scott, but it extends to the entire club. I'd be curious to know how honest they are with themselves in general. The feeling I get is that they have told themselves certain things so often they're now scared to deny it. Honest view now is that they're afraid to face the harsh reality that repeated September results seem to be suggesting.

I said this last year. A really encouraging step - perhaps a separate thread - is ask, how good are we really? Look at every player on the list, every coach, every list management decision (to be clear, covering much more than just Scott), and ask - are we really doing this right? It doesn't feel like there's critical self-examination at all there.

I'd start with the obvious. Ask how good every single player on the list is. Every player, from Selwood down. Instead of telling ourselves how awesome the entire list is, and how losses are due to bad luck, injuries, fixturing, and the alignment of the planets (the AFL conspiracy one is about as credible), perhaps they just aren't that good after all. It doesn't matter how motivated or keen or angry they might be this Friday. Perhaps they just aren't good enough, and the drafting and development is nowhere near good enough.

 

[Hello Kitty]

I thought last night was humiliating for us, but Sydney has pulled down Bombers pants + given them a massive smack bottoms can't see Geelong or Tigers beating them

I'm not writing us off and the only team in it apart from us with the big game rep is Sydney.

We can do it.

Great enthusiasm - but what about Adelaide? Not a chance?

 

[Turbocat]

sorry for the intrusion but thought i would say that i was in a mostly richmond supporters section and they were largely respectful to the geelong fans even when the game was over. Theres no point rubbing these results in as karma swings back full circle. good luck against the swans, they look quite formidable.

In a crowd of 95000 that seemed mainly Yellow ..there is bound to be the odd reprobate ... yet the game started with officially sanctioned welcome to the game of the drums..drums that would get played at Rich home game ... then followed by a noise that I can only say was the sound that set the tone of the masses.. .. a drone of booing for the home side coming onto the ground that was not just the odd supporter it was the sound a herd mentality.

And so it went thru the game... Richmond supporters jumping up out of seats because they were "excited" ..not caring if it blocked others view. ..not worried about spilling beer all over the opp. supporters in front , not worried about kids in tears near me that was for sure. I have been going to football a long time and seen few crowds where their unbridled selfishness was so unchecked, a level of self entitlement that seemed gravy for the meat of potential violence.

So after all that ..do you really believe that Tig supports just doffed their hat and said bad luck etc to exiting opposition supporters. You personally are not responsible for others ..if you behaved well then congrats to you... but I fear if you do believe in Karma , the this year may yet have a bad turn for RFC.

 

[Hello Kitty]

Can we bring in Buzz to play forward and put Harry back to defence? Looks like Kolo might not play so this works. Lang for Parsons and Cocky for Guthrie if available .

Can Zuthrie play for Kolo? I liked him on Friday, huge shame about missing that goal, but others, with way more experience, missed set shots too. Would love Cockatoo to be up for this game, but still may be in cotton wool. Oh Buzza has to play, Harry needed in defence + he offers a good option, great mark, crashes packs + kicks goals - great start to his career. Menzel for Motlop please.

 

[Pack Specialist]

I thought last night was humiliating for us, but Sydney has pulled down Bombers pants + given them a massive smack bottoms can't see Geelong or Tigers beating them

Great enthusiasm - but what about Adelaide? Not a chance?

I think Adelaide will choke.

Haven't proven themselves as a big game team.

 

[year of the cat]

This is not just on Scott, but it extends to the entire club. I'd be curious to know how honest they are with themselves in general. The feeling I get is that they have told themselves certain things so often they're now scared to deny it. Honest view now is that they're afraid to face the harsh reality that repeated September results seem to be suggesting.

I said this last year. A really encouraging step - perhaps a separate thread - is ask, how good are we really? Look at every player on the list, every coach, every list management decision (to be clear, covering much more than just Scott), and ask - are we really doing this right? It doesn't feel like there's critical self-examination at all there.

I'd start with the obvious. Ask how good every single player on the list is. Every player, from Selwood down. Instead of telling ourselves how awesome the entire list is, and how losses are due to bad luck, injuries, fixturing, and the alignment of the planets (the AFL conspiracy one is about as credible), perhaps they just aren't that good after all. It doesn't matter how motivated or keen or angry they might be this Friday. Perhaps they just aren't good enough, and the drafting and development is nowhere near good enough.

There has been a fair bit of talk that getting 8 games at KP every year hides the cracks. I'm not sure I totally subscribe to this theory but you have to now to start to think that it has some merit. Whilst our team circa 2007-2011 was far better in terms of quality and hardness, I still can't quite fathom how a team can consistently play well over the course of the H&A only to look second rate come finals time. Really, the last two finals we've looked like a bottom 4 side.

Perhaps you are correct - our list just isn't good enough. I certainly think that our skill level, particularly under pressure, is severely lacking. Particularly our kicking. Our top end looks as good as anyones - Dangerfield, J.Selwood, Duncan, Hawkins, Henderson, Tuohy, Menzel. It's the drop off after that where we struggle - it was noticeable against the Tigers that when the pressure went up the likes of Stewart, Parsons, Kolo, Blicavs, Murdoch and Menegola went missing or even worse made horrendous errors. Perhaps a bit unfair on the first two as they are young and inexperienced but they are still part of the team.

I was actually a bit buoyant before Friday night. I thought we'd win. But it's been a massive wake up and possibly one I should have expected after the past few years. I just thought that we had improved from last year. Clearly we haven't. Where to go now if we get soundly beaten by the Swans (which I now expect) is an interesting question? Do we continue to top up with the hope that adding another piece or two will hopefully be the difference or do we go back to the draft and have a much longer term view?

 

[Brains Trust66]

We had to have Taylor up there. We didn't have enough marking forwards. Scott said that at the presser. Right before he explained he dropped Menzel because the conditions didn't suit marking forwards.

I never realised Menzel was a marking forward , I thought he could do everything . I was really surprised when they dropped him. If I was picking the side there would be the usual first picked then Menzel would have been in the second group . I don't know enough about the Cats to know who's best etc but from my point of view he's an extremely hard player to match up on . He can mark big , play small , seems fast, has great skills and good goal sense . From an outsiders point of view he should of been playing.

I don't know who picks the side but someone should get a pay drop for that one.