Autopsy Geelong QF loses to Richmond by 51 points

[Brains Trust66]

On the brighter note if you win next week you will know you deserve to be there .

 

[McRobie]

Btw how on earth is Menzel not getting a gig over Parsons? The mind boggles.


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[Turbocat]

There has been a fair bit of talk that getting 8 games at KP every year hides the cracks. I'm not sure I totally subscribe to this theory but you have to now to start to think that it has some merit. Whilst our team circa 2007-2011 was far better in terms of quality and hardness, I still can't quite fathom how a team can consistently play well over the course of the H&A only to look second rate come finals time. Really, the last two finals we've looked like a bottom 4 side.

Perhaps you are correct - our list just isn't good enough. I certainly think that our skill level, particularly under pressure, is severely lacking. Particularly our kicking. Our top end looks as good as anyones - Dangerfield, J.Selwood, Duncan, Hawkins, Henderson, Tuohy, Menzel. It's the drop off after that where we struggle - it was noticeable against the Tigers that when the pressure went up the likes of Kolo, Stewart, Parsons, Blicavs, Murdoch and Menegola went missing or even worse made horrendous errors. Perhaps a bit unfair on the first two as they are young and inexperienced but they are still part of the team.

I was actually a bit buoyant before Friday night. I thought we'd win. But it's been a massive wake up and possibly one I should have expected after the past few years. I just thought that we had improved from last year. Clearly we haven't. Where to go now if we get soundly beaten by the Swans (which I now expect) is an interesting question? Do we continue to top up with the hope that adding another piece or two will hopefully be the difference or do we go back to the draft and have a much longer term view?

There have been a few posters this year who in their own way questioned the factual interpretation of our results the last few years. For me the Swans game last year was the proverbial straw.. so I have been adamant the wins and losses thru the year had limited value ..and that I would not really engage the "hope" lever again till we start winning ..in essence they must prove to me that they are worthy of my hope.

Its a different time and era... but I question now if one of the key tenants of the Thompson era is still a KPI for us. Do we play a style that stands up in finals? For years there was the usual platitudes about the Geelong way.. what is our way NOW ... Lets shutdown and close down and restrict ..and when another side breaks us in a big game we are cooked.. We have become a poor version of a StKilda Freo clone ... and some keep getting fooled into it being a winning way because of the tight confines of KP where it easier to shutdown and close down and restrict. Winning 80-40 still means we haven't scored an average of 4-5 goals a quarter which is a good indicator imo of a teams capability to win matches rather than force the other side to lose.
Some of this is because the game has become a bogged down imitation of the game I loved .. very few times do I really enjoy the wins when we do actually win .. the highlights are so few and far between..it has now become a test of running and effort and zones.

Barr humbug... not in positive state of mind atm...

 

[Pack Specialist]

Btw how on earth is Menzel not getting a gig over Parsons? The mind boggles.


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Parsons has been very good this season and has come up big in big moments.

He deserved his chance but blew it.

 

[WeAreGeelong]

Parsons has been very good this season and has come up big in big moments.

He deserved his chance but blew it.

I think he's had a couple of good moments, but that's about it. I'm talking the entire year, not just Friday night's game. He hasn't topped 14 possessions in his last 17 games. Ironically the only 2 times he has done that were his first 2 games (18 and 21) and it's been all downhill since then IMO. He has some skills and pace I'll admit that, but just goes missing for large chunks in every game. Not yet ready for the Seniors. Does not bring enough to the table. He has a lot of mates mind you.

 

[Hello Kitty]

Have to, although Kolo has been playing on the wing.
Buzza and Menzel in, Taylor goes back and we continue playing Hawkins at CHF.
Guthrie and Kolo out, Lang and another runner in (if we have any available, perhaps Thurlow?).
Play Motlop DEEP forward, I don't care how much he runs.
I expect us to lose regardless so I want to see a complete change in gamestyle.

Exactly, can we do any worse? lol The biggest thing for me is just how crucial our need is for a completely new strategy to play Sydney. Don't think I'd play Motlop, who has already checked out.

Lonergan restricted Riewoldt on Friday night + has an excellent record against Buddy - keeps him to two goals.

We'll need strong, agressive defensive pressure I50 Sydney to force turnovers - a poor aspect of Tigers game. Reid plays as virtually a seventh defender, behind the ball, to stop oppo ball movement, but to target him congests our forward line. No long bombs to Tomahawk FFS! Another reason we need Buzza.

Every single aspect of our game from Friday night must be scrutinised! Every single aspect of our losses to Sydney needs to be scrutinised! We have nothing to lose + everything to gain.

 

[2Knights]

Yet another poor finals effort from the cats.

As an aside - all those complaining about the Lonergan/Riewoldt goal square free kick need to learn the rules of the game. It was a clear-cut instance of marking interference. Riewoldt's sole intention was to knock Lonergan out of the ball's path. He made no effort to take a mark himself. There is no 5-metre rule for shepherding/blocking in marking contests - it's prohibited outright. You can make contact with opposition players only in the act of attempting a mark or spoil.

If that same contest happened on the wing, the free kick would be paid without question. We don't have one set of rules for the goal square and another for the rest of the ground.

 

[year of the cat]

There have been a few posters this year who in their own way questioned the factual interpretation of our results the last few years. For me the Swans game last year was the proverbial straw.. so I have been adamant the wins and losses thru the year had limited value ..and that I would not really engage the "hope" lever again till we start winning ..in essence they must prove to me that they are worthy of my hope.

Its a different time and era... but I question now if one of the key tenants of the Thompson era is still a KPI for us. Do we play a style that stands up in finals? For years there was the usual platitudes about the Geelong way.. what is our way NOW ... Lets shutdown and close down and restrict ..and when another side breaks us in a big game we are cooked.. We have become a poor version of a StKilda Freo clone ... and some keep getting fooled into it being a winning way because of the tight confines of KP where it easier to shutdown and close down and restrict. Winning 80-40 still means we haven't scored an average of 4-5 goals a quarter which is a good indicator imo of a teams capability to win matches rather than force the other side to lose.
Some of this is because the game has become a bogged down imitation of the game I loved .. very few times do I really enjoy the wins when we do actually win .. the highlights are so few and far between..it has now become a test of running and effort and zones.

Barr humbug... not in positive state of mind atm...

You and me both.

The Geelong way has never been to play an overly defensive game but to be free flowing and high scoring. Back ourselves to kick more than the opposition. The successful teams of 2007-2011 had a great balance between attack and defence but were still able to slam on multiple goals in a short period. I think we definitely played an overly defensive system team on Friday night and that was born out with our psyche during the match. We didn't appear like we were trying to win, rather we trying not to lose. We've got to go back to a far more attacking structure this week - we have Buckley's chance of winning against the Swans if we try and "out defend" them.

 

[thegerman]

Who gives a shit. H&A? Sure, drop him. Finals? Play him and drop him next season.

Yeah but I guess this is the courage part of leadership. No matter what, same outcome

But I'm just the messenger of what I've heard

 

[geelong_boy]

When our game plan breaks down time and again in finals then it has to be a symptom of the coaching. EVERYONE is culpable. Not just the players.

Of course everyone is responsible. My comment was directed at the point that all the blame goes solely to the coach.

 

[year of the cat]

Of course everyone is responsible. My comment was directed at the point that all the blame goes solely to the coach.

I never said that.

 

[geelong_boy]

I never said that.

Yes you're right.

Unless we're in the inner sanctum we have no idea what he said behind closed doors. Maybe he has taken responsibility about his coaching. Maybe at times the coaches' instructions weren't carried out.

 

[James1970]

Joel must still be on the meds - according to today's paper, he reckons the Richmond loss was a 'hiccup'.

 

[Pack Specialist]

Joel must still be on the meds - according to today's paper, he reckons the Richmond loss was a 'hiccup'.

More like gastro reflux.

 

[Pack Specialist]

I think he's had a couple of good moments, but that's about it. I'm talking the entire year, not just Friday night's game. He hasn't topped 14 possessions in his last 17 games. Ironically the only 2 times he has done that were his first 2 games (18 and 21) and it's been all downhill since then IMO. He has some skills and pace I'll admit that, but just goes missing for large chunks in every game. Not yet ready for the Seniors. Does not bring enough to the table. He has a lot of mates mind you.

He's a pressure forward and not there for high possessions, he's kicked some important goals this season and has mitigated the loss of McCarthy and Gregson.

At 21 years of age though, he's certainly not ready for the big dance.

 

[Mr Blicavs]

Parsons has been very good this season and has come up big in big moments.

He deserved his chance but blew it.

He hasn't been good at all.......he's been gifted games because of the carnage in the injury room
Friday nights game was only slightly below what he's produced in other games.
He won't tackle, he won't crumb, he doesn't kick goals, and he doesnt to create scoring opportunities for others.

You can't have Parsons Parfitt Murdoch and and Motlop all running around in the forward line, contributing nothing, and expect to win finals.

Menzel and Buzza must come back in this week. Menzel to contribute goals, and Buzza to give a contest

 

[WeAreGeelong]

He's a pressure forward and not there for high possessions, he's kicked some important goals this season and has mitigated the loss of McCarthy and Gregson.

At 21 years of age though, he's certainly not ready for the big dance.

42 tackles in 19 games suggests to me that his high pressure is not as high as it needs to be. I don't rate him at all to be honest - no matter what the role he is playing - he is extremely limited and just doesn't offer enough IMO. Not a single tackle laid on Friday night - awesome pressure that is.

 

[catempire]

You and me both.

The Geelong way has never been to play an overly defensive game but to be free flowing and high scoring. Back ourselves to kick more than the opposition. The successful teams of 2007-2011 had a great balance between attack and defence but were still able to slam on multiple goals in a short period. I think we definitely played an overly defensive system team on Friday night and that was born out with our psyche during the match. We didn't appear like we were trying to win, rather we trying not to lose. We've got to go back to a far more attacking structure this week - we have Buckley's chance of winning against the Swans if we try and "out defend" them.

Probably one of the few things you and I will agree on. The defensive mindset has to be discarded at this point. It just doesn't work at this time of year. The best teams can score heavily. It's not enough to rely on strangling the opposition.

 

[Pack Specialist]

42 tackles in 19 games suggests to me that his high pressure is not as high as it needs to be. I don't rate him at all to be honest - no matter what the role he is playing - he is extremely limited and just doesn't offer enough IMO. Not a single tackle laid on Friday night - awesome pressure that is.

Yeah he was shit.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and at 21 years old, he will get better.

 

[Vdubs]

Yeah just noticed Richmond are into the Prelim of the VFL today.
There has to be an advantage. Happens too often for it not to be.

Eerily similar to Doggies 16, although Tigers AFL get a double bye and all games at the G.

 

[sgt5]

Btw how on earth is Menzel not getting a gig over Parsons? The mind boggles.


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Suppose Menzel had played and Geelong had lost. There is no way, with his knees, that Menzel could then play well in three more finals. Which would mean that Geelong would have had to leave him out in at least one of them - and all three are do or die finals. This one wasn't. If we had to leave him out, this game was the game to do it. And remember, because of the injuries and suspensions he wasn't rested as long as they planned near the end of the season. Now he's had two weeks' rest...

And for those who love to parrot the media's fascination with our post-bye performances:

Yes, we have lost 6 of 6 games post-bye during the H&A season from 2012-2017, BUT

We have only lost 2 out of 18 games played in the three-game window after those post-bye losses.

 

[Pack Specialist]

42 tackles in 19 games suggests to me that his high pressure is not as high as it needs to be. I don't rate him at all to be honest - no matter what the role he is playing - he is extremely limited and just doesn't offer enough IMO. Not a single tackle laid on Friday night - awesome pressure that is.

I agree with you about his performance and he will never be an A grader but he does have potential.

Murdoch was worse IMO and he's the guy who should be putting it together right now, not some 21 year old kid.

Blame the kid anyway.

 

[year of the cat]

Probably one of the few things you and I will agree on. The defensive mindset has to be discarded at this point. It just doesn't work at this time of year. The best teams can score heavily. It's not enough to rely on strangling the opposition.

I'm sure we have more than this we agree on

 

[Vdubs]

Suppose Menzel had played and Geelong had lost. There is no way, with his knees, that Menzel could then play well in three more finals. Which would mean that Geelong would have had to leave him out in at least one of them - and all three are do or die finals. This one wasn't. If we had to leave him out, this game was the game to do it. And remember, because of the injuries and suspensions he wasn't rested as long as they planned near the end of the season. Now he's had two weeks' rest...

And for those who love to parrot the media's fascination with our post-bye performances:

Yes, we have lost 6 of 6 games post-bye during the H&A season from 2012-2017, BUT

We have only lost 2 out of 18 games played in the three-game window after those post-bye losses.

Is there any basis to a rumour about Menzel being out this week for disciplinary reasons?
Totally agree with your post btw.

 

[Mr Blicavs]

You and me both.

The Geelong way has never been to play an overly defensive game but to be free flowing and high scoring. Back ourselves to kick more than the opposition. The successful teams of 2007-2011 had a great balance between attack and defence but were still able to slam on multiple goals in a short period. I think we definitely played an overly defensive system team on Friday night and that was born out with our psyche during the match. We didn't appear like we were trying to win, rather we trying not to lose. We've got to go back to a far more attacking structure this week - we have Buckley's chance of winning against the Swans if we try and "out defend" them.

Friday night, I couldn't believe how high we pressed up, yet stood 5-10 metres off our opponents. It's just a complete waste of time to have all your players in Richmonds half, if you're not putting physicality into them.
You're just guarding the space........and THAT is the problem.
Scott is obsessed with zone off footy, he goes back to it all the bloody time.
We play our best footy when we are first to the contest, and attack the footy
How many times on Friday night did we press up on the kickouts, have everyone in Richmonds half, then just allow them to chip it to a defender unattended who cleared the ball without pressure. This gave them a chance to get out of the 50 with ease on the second kick. Every single time.
I was pulling my hair out.
We will never ever ever win another flag playing zone off footy.