Play Nice The 'all things Carlton' mega-thread

[Trav 20]

I dont think any coach does that. However i do think that a coach will tell the recruiters "find me a good mid who shows goal sense", or "the rebuild will focus around devrloping a fresh spine, so find me a KPF who is mobile, a ruck who can impact the scoreboard and a KPD who can read the play well".

Im curious, what sort of interview process do you think happens at a club when they are looking for a new coach? Particularly as the Carlton head honchos were interviewing for a coach to oversee a rebuild. The list had been assessed as s**t and we wanted a coach to fix it.

What do you think were the discussion points in that interview? And then we announce the coach and then you think he had no input into drafting?

Ive gotta say mate, you are a unique and individual thinker. And to follow it up with insults? Brilliant. Take a bow champ

Of course he gives input to the list he wants and where he thinks they're deficient. Blind Freddy could see where they were deficient.

But to suggest he's doing anything other than inheriting the list after the draft period is bizarre.

 

[Brutalitops]

Of course he gives input to the list he wants and where he thinks they're deficient. Blind Freddy could see where they were deficient.

But to suggest he's doing anything other than inheriting the list after the draft period is bizarre.

I think we're arguing at cross purposes. Im saying that Bolton gave Silvagni and co clear instructions to the direction of recruiting, drafting, trading in order to rebuild the list. I was under the impression that your point was Bolton had no input into drafting, which I clearly disagree with.

I dont understand how you can then agree that he has input but then he isnt doing anything other than inheriting the list after the draft period.

 

[Trav 20]

I think we're arguing at cross purposes. Im saying that Bolton gave Silvagni and co clear instructions to the direction of recruiting, drafting, trading in order to rebuild the list. I was under the impression that your point was Bolton had no input into drafting, which I clearly disagree with.

I dont understand how you can then agree that he has input but then he isnt doing anything other than inheriting the list after the draft period.

I'm not sure if you've been following the thread, but I listed all of the players Roos started with in round 1, 2014 and all of the players Bolton started with in round 1, 2016.

I spoke of the lists both coaches inherited. I then mention Charlie Curnow, Cunningham, etc. I was told I'd erred and that those players couldn't be counted, because Bolton had joined the club prior to the draft.

Of course a coach gives input into the list he wants to build, but to suggest he didn't inherit the players drafted late 2015 is ridiculous. And that is the point I'm arguing.

Apparently, you disagree with me.

 

[davis_756]

Team balancing issues? Lol

Yeah like playing 5 KP backs and no ruckman the other week against GC, Jones/Marchbank/Weitering/Plowman are too slow to be played together while trying to switch to a more attacking game plan because their speed is a weakness for the soft grandma goals over the top. Due to docherty going down and a lack of quality smaller defenders to replace him we are going in to tall down there and up forward we have done the opposite by having no 3rd tall. Every time casboult has to ruck we are left with curnow as the sole f50 target and when he marks on the wing there is no one to kick to.

Hopefully by the end of the year Mckay/Kerr comes on enough as a forward to get into the side and Schumacher/O'Brien come on as small rebounding defenders as well as getting docherty back and we will improve drastically.

 

[davis_756]

I'm not sure if you've been following the thread, but I listed all of the players Roos started with in round 1, 2014 and all of the players Bolton started with in round 1, 2016.

I spoke of the lists both coaches inherited. I then mention Charlie Curnow, Cunningham, etc. I was told I'd erred and that those players couldn't be counted, because Bolton had joined the club prior to the draft.

Of course a coach gives input into the list he wants to build, but to suggest he didn't inherit the players drafted late 2015 is ridiculous. And that is the point I'm arguing.

Apparently, you disagree with me.

He took over a shambles of a list and those players were the first additions after his arrival, we went into that draft period on Bolton's plan to the club and drafted players according to his intentions not Malthouse or anyone else.

You are wrong

 

[Trav 20]

He took over a shambles of a list and those players were the first additions after his arrival, we went into that draft period on Bolton's plan to the club and drafted players according to his intentions not Malthouse or anyone else.

You are wrong

He didn't tell the recruiters who to draft.

At the pointy end you draft "best available". Unless you're Alan Richardson.

The intellect of you Carlton mob. It's hysterical.

 

[Monkey King]

I dont understand how you can then agree that he has input but then he isnt doing anything other than inheriting the list after the draft period.

And even if we suspend belief and accept that a newly installed coach has zero input into upcoming list changes, Trav’s thinking ignores the potential variables between a new coach that has 12 list changes after taking over the reigns and another new coach who had say just 3 changes.

 

[Trav 20]

And even if we suspend belief and accept that a newly installed coach has zero input into upcoming list changes, Trav’s thinking ignores the potential variables between a new coach that has 12 list changes after taking over the reigns and another new coach who had say just 3 changes.

I didn't say he had "no input". Of course he had input.

But he didn't tell them what names to call out.

He inherited who his recruiters thought were the best players in the draft at their pick. Early in the draft the recruiters pick best available. From round 3 onwards they're more likely to pick based on needs.

 

[Ray Donovan]

Docherty knee ended bolts season lol... best defender top 3 player gone defence is now a rabble

 

[Blue1980]

He didn't tell the recruiters who to draft.

At the pointy end you draft "best available". Unless you're Alan Richardson.

The intellect of you Carlton mob. It's hysterical.

I am really interested in what else we could of done to be a good side by now.

Obviously trading Gibbs was a 1 step back to go 2 steps forward.

Does anyone seriously think we should sack Bolts? And if we did then what? Top up to try and jag a finals appearance at he expense of development?

 

[Scotland]

Docherty knee ended bolts season lol... best defender top 3 player gone defence is now a rabble

If your season ends because you lose an unaccountable half back then you don't really have much of a game plan.

 

[Monkey King]

I didn't say he had "no input".

Even if a new coach had zero input, there are variables that your approach does not account for.

If you wanna see where any coach started, look at the list the day they were signed. Simple. Obvious.

 

[TeeJay Blue]

Carlton is obviously in a far better position that where is was when Bolton first took over. He seems to have a plan to build it out.
My view is that, at this stage, they have been recruiting alot of young players or taking a bunch of players from GWS for picks hoping to find a player or two. They need a better mix of players. Guys like Rockliff should have been a priority. Even following Melbourne and Brisbane in bringing in 'leaders' like Lewis and Hodge on to the ground. It's great having plenty of high draft picks but unless they develop to their full potential, you run the risk of the past few weeks.

Rockliff was one of our priorities. But it's hard to obtain someone at his age who has been starved of success.

He was always going to pick Port over us. That's the flaw of free agency.

 

[Trav 20]

I am really interested in what else we could of done to be a good side by now.

Obviously trading Gibbs was a 1 step back to go 2 steps forward.

Does anyone seriously think we should sack Bolts? And if we did then what? Top up to try and jag a finals appearance at he expense of development?

He's a young coach who's still learning. Like your players, he will get better.

Carlton should and I'm sure will stay the course.

 

[juss]

Whats the pass mark for Bolton this year?
Id be thinking 8+ wins

 

[Blue1980]

Seems to be a trend for Carlton supporters talking up their prospects...

I said this year if things went well we could finish as high as 11th, or as low as 18th if things go badly.

 

[La Dispute]

We're legitimately a good chance to finish bottom, but it wont have much to do with Bolton. The gap between our list and the next best is chasmic and made worse by losing arguably our most important player in Docherty.

We knew we'd have some short term pain by shipping off Gibbs, but optimistically thought some natural improvement from our younger mids plus the recruitment of Kennedy would somewhat help to fill the void. I think we've made the right decision in trading him, but it's certainly going to come at a cost performance-wise. Not 100% sold on O'Brien either.

 

[davis_756]

He didn't tell the recruiters who to draft.

At the pointy end you draft "best available". Unless you're Alan Richardson.

The intellect of you Carlton mob. It's hysterical.

What part of Malthouse getting sacked, the month long coaching process and the plan that Bolton presented being adopted by the entire club. He influenced changes in all the coaching roles, changes in the way the club communicates and a whole host of things.

Why do you think we went and recruited 3 KP players in that 1st draft? Because we had bought into Bolton's plan to do a full rebuild top to bottom so we went and recruited the guys that take the longest to mature 1st. If he had of come in under the banner of turning us back into a finals side immediately we would have kept the likes of Touhy and not hit the draft so hard.

You have to have been born stupid to not understand something so simple in all honesty.

 

[Trav 20]

What part of Malthouse getting sacked, the month long coaching process and the plan that Bolton presented being adopted by the entire club. He influenced changes in all the coaching roles, changes in the way the club communicates and a whole host of things.

Why do you think we went and recruited 3 KP players in that 1st draft? Because we had bought into Bolton's plan to do a full rebuild top to bottom so we went and recruited the guys that take the longest to mature 1st. If he had of come in under the banner of turning us back into a finals side immediately we would have kept the likes of Touhy and not hit the draft so hard.

You have to have been born stupid to not understand something so simple in all honesty.

I've already said he would have influenced the type of list he wanted.

It was plainly obvious Carlton needed talls. FFS your only key forward was Casboult. So Bolton says you need some key forwards. Genius.

You Carlton supporters take the cake.

He inherited his list post the 2015 draft.

 

[Ray Donovan]

If your season ends because you lose an unaccountable half back then you don't really have much of a game plan.

Nah they were always going to be a bottom 3 side this year the injuries and off season departures really put the nail in coffin. Bryce Gibbs is a bigger loss.

Pretty harsh haha Docherty was an all Australian last year he is basically just the ground version of what Jeremy McGovern does

 

[Scotland]

Nah they were always going to be a bottom 3 side this year the injuries and off season departures really put the nail in coffin. Bryce Gibbs is a bigger loss.

Pretty harsh haha Docherty was an all Australian last year he is basically just the ground version of what Jeremy McGovern does

Yeah I didn't have them finishing too high this year with every player fit and firing, their squad just isn't that good.

Docherty is a good player but has the easiest role in footy - playing loose in defence. Sets up play but doesn't rack up 1%ers and contested marks. Not really comparable to McGovern who is a key defender. He zones off (too much sometimes) but still outmarks key forwards 1 on 1.

 

[Ray Donovan]

Yeah I didn't have them finishing too high this year with every player fit and firing, their squad just isn't that good.

Docherty is a good player but has the easiest role in footy - playing loose in defence. Sets up play but doesn't rack up 1%ers and contested marks. Not really comparable to McGovern who is a key defender. He zones off (too much sometimes) but still outmarks key forwards 1 on 1.

I like the gov this year with only barass back there and most sides going small in the forward half he will get an opponent. But he would be set up as the plus 1 a lot last season. Sides barely play 6 forwards anymore with all the pressing the zoning guarding space it actually makes some games barely watchable with all the switching and chipping #st Kilda.

Docherty can kick though which is why he is probably the best half back flanker in the league

 

[LeppaMessiah]

What part of Malthouse getting sacked, the month long coaching process and the plan that Bolton presented being adopted by the entire club. He influenced changes in all the coaching roles, changes in the way the club communicates and a whole host of things.

Why do you think we went and recruited 3 KP players in that 1st draft? Because we had bought into Bolton's plan to do a full rebuild top to bottom so we went and recruited the guys that take the longest to mature 1st. If he had of come in under the banner of turning us back into a finals side immediately we would have kept the likes of Touhy and not hit the draft so hard.

You have to have been born stupid to not understand something so simple in all honesty.

Bit off topic I know, but wasn't everyone born stupid?

 

[davis_756]

I've already said he would have influenced the type of list he wanted.

It was plainly obvious Carlton needed talls. FFS your only key forward was Casboult. So Bolton says you need some key forwards. Genius.

You Carlton supporters take the cake.

He inherited his list post the 2015 draft.

So you are suggestion we have Malthouse to thank for the selections of Weitering/Mckay/Curnow/Cuningham are you? lol

 

[davis_756]

Bit off topic I know, but wasn't everyone born stupid?

Some get dropped on their heads after the fact