Coach Chris Scott re-signs to 2022 (aka the Chris Scott discussion Part IV)

[Partridge]

Saying it is just realistic doesn't make it realistic.

My point being, if you guys want to sing the praises of other clubs before our own, either back it up with evidence or take it to the appropriate club forums.

No supporter wants to hear from people who shit on our prospects while artificially inflating other clubs.

That's a fair point.

If only Melbourne finished higher on the ladder and/or won more finals than us last year.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Murdoch is gone

I'll bet you he's a late "in" for Rd 1.

 

[Down at K Park]

Our biggest deficiency in the forward line is that we only have one decent forward and 6 spots to fill.
How has this been addressed?

Yet strangely we had the most efficient forward line last year ie we scored from the least average entries. Go figure.

 

[Catman]

the truth isn't an exaggeration, at best its bottom 4 which still isn't an exaggeration

once again proven right

And what is this "truth" based on? I want hard evidence or some sort of evidence to support your claim.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Yet strangely we had the most efficient forward line last year ie we scored from the least average entries. Go figure.

It was a result of the defensive gameplan, especially the slow build-up, which was designed to give the good players time to get down into the F50 where they became both defensive cloggers and goal kickers/creators.
Coupled (when the opening occurred as a result of a fast turnover or clearance) with opportunistic cases of quick movement to Hawkins.

 

[Catman]

If you've posted it before you can do it again, or you can give me a rundown of it.

 

[Landgraft]

One game they were better than us for one quarter. So you write off the whole season. It's not a great dataset, especially when you consider we couldn't have played worse, yet they proved they could play a lot worse than us two weeks later.

Chris Scott definitely thought we were as capable as any other team in the comp. He copped shit for his faith in the Richmond press conference.

Anyway, I am sick to death of trying to convince supposed supporters that our team is not shit. It is probably time I start using the ignore function to remove irrelevant whingers whose only pleasure is denigrating the team they say they follow.

It was a beautiful thing to see the immense blind rage of Richmond fans at being called beatable even though they eventually won. Lotta people not understanding what words actually mean.

Not that different to plenty on here, all things considered.

 

[Nickoo]

They didn't work real well for each other in their loss in the finals. Nobody showed any will for the contest. At least our blokes dug in after quarter time. So I think you are wrong about that too, they are clear flat track bullies who fall apart when they get behind.

Agreed.

But the theme of 2018 was play a certain game style, get behind then throw it off and look good, sometimes win, sometimes lose by allot, but mostly, just lose. Same thing has happened repeatedly since 2011 except 2013 which was an anomalous year for this hypothesis.

So, the answer to my question is, do we need to go for a game style like that which do when nearly all hope is lost?


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[Nickoo]

I couldn't really give a shit about Melbourne or any other side TBH. I have nothing invested.
Just my opinion that the expectations should be (and are) for them to do better than us this year and for the next couple.
It's just realistic.

They should. But I reckon they might be the next Richmond. Played finals ‘13, but took four years of being up and about to finally put it all together. Same weagles. Same Geelong yrs ‘04-‘06. Same woods 07-09. Hawks got lucky the awful shitey pains in the bum.


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[Ray Donovan]

Post the Melbourne final 2018 Scott said he was happy with the preparation when talking about the Cats poor performances in big games and blamed it on players Choosing not to work hard enough.
Still a coaching issue though.

Yeah and most of the counter arguments revolve around his regular season record that for me works against him. That's telling me the list has enough talent to be competitive all season then disappears near finals.

The 7 straight losses after the regular season bye also that's difficult to do I know we did win a final in there which is technically after a bye even so 7-1 not great . Surely that is a preparation issue again stellar regular season records.

Basically any time the opposition coaching panel gets a week to break down geelongs game style we get beaten. 3 -10 since 2011 or around that.

Goal less first quarters 4

Geelong 20 points (+1.2 v adelaide)
Against 169 points ( 25.19)

2012 v freo
2016 v syd
2017 rich v adel (1.2)
2018 melb

Numbers above are cherry picked it's still amazing though. Pressure geelong around the football and we will turn the ball over by default poor skills under pressure in turn we flood backwards teams get on a run game over.

4 top four finishes
13,14,16,17
3 prelims and a straight sets not one grand final berth.

That's without even touching our Achilles heal forward half efficiency managed to kick 40 points against Richmond in the 2017 blowout an mcg low since the 1960's.

2016 - w (Haw 2 ) L ( Syd 37 )
2017 - L ( Rich 51 ) W ( 59 Syd ) L (61 Adel)
2018 - L ( melb 29 )

It's clear his gameplan in finals is flawed just the consistency and similar nature of the losses as well. You can't amass these types of records and hang your hat on the regular season and point to that and say job done. Coaches earn all the chocolates in the finals it's their gameplan and job to give that 22 the runs out the best tactical advantage possible and confidence.

Just the results mean the coaching panel needs to soul search just as much as the players need to improve

 

[Ray Donovan]

It was a result of the defensive gameplan, especially the slow build-up, which was designed to give the good players time to get down into the F50 where they became both defensive cloggers and goal kickers/creators.
Coupled (when the opening occurred as a result of a fast turnover or clearance) with opportunistic cases of quick movement to Hawkins.

Lol designed to give the good players time to get down into the forward 50. Defensive cloggers and goal kickers creators ?

Stick to politics mate

 

[Ray Donovan]

Yet strangely we had the most efficient forward line last year ie we scored from the least average entries. Go figure.

So the defensive cloggers get a chance to get into position to become goal creators

 

[Vdubs]

So the defensive cloggers get a chance to get into position to become goal creators

Hey Ray, is that series under your namesake worth watching?
Not heard of it before but flicking through stations last pm while boring doubles was on, came across it.

 

[Ricketz]

Agreed.

But the theme of 2018 was play a certain game style, get behind then throw it off and look good, sometimes win, sometimes lose by allot, but mostly, just lose. Same thing has happened repeatedly since 2011 except 2013 which was an anomalous year for this hypothesis.

So, the answer to my question is, do we need to go for a game style like that which do when nearly all hope is lost?


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You and I have alluded to it before, and I am sure we are not alone. I think everybody wants to see more attractive, attacking footy. But there is also the two other big avenues for easy goals that we need to address - centre clearances and rebound goals out of our fifty.

We definitely need to address the centre clearance problem - we get shocked in first quarters against decent midfields. That falls to both players and game plan, imo. I think Scott is too cavalier about the importance of centre clearances - it's great to have faith in your back six, but the game is now played from the centre forward. Conversely, when the players are on, our game plan stands up, but it looks horrible if they are slightly off. I think we have to change our half back slingshot approach and start dominating at the centre.

The second issues, we push up and then cannot retain the ball in our forward fifty. A quick boot over the back and we are too easily exposed. That is where our forwardline pressure must improve, imo. Easy exits hurt us badly.

Structural deficiencies like a lack of a second key forward hurt, but we still scored winning margins - so hopefully Sav will free Hawkins to play upfield a bit more where he is dangerous. I will be disappointed if Scott plays Hawkins as full forward.

In a nutshell, we need to stop the ball from getting past the centre more than we have in the past, be more direct, and be more defensive in our forward. In my opinion.

 

[Ricketz]

I'm not doing either, it's just my actual honest opinion of where both teams are at.
I don't like Melbourne at all, and would consider a flag from them almost as plastic as GWS with everything they've been given on and off the field.
It's not many seasons that your team is the best I the comp. It's rare.and I don't think this is one of them.
Nothing to be ashamed of or upset about

Fair enough. You are right, we disagree on where our lists are at.

Spazz, you are a reasonable poster, my rants are not directed at you, but I do get caught up in the constant negativity on this thread sometimes. My apology for reading more into your post than I should have.

 

[Frappe]

Hey Ray, is that series under your namesake worth watching?
Not heard of it before but flicking through stations last pm while boring doubles was on, came across it.

Absolute belter in my opinion. You need to watch from Series 1 (Captain Obvious).

 

[Ricketz]

Yeah and most of the counter arguments revolve around his regular season record that for me works against him. That's telling me the list has enough talent to be competitive all season then disappears near finals.

The 7 straight losses after the regular season bye also that's difficult to do I know we did win a final in there which is technically after a bye even so 7-1 not great . Surely that is a preparation issue again stellar regular season records.

Basically any time the opposition coaching panel gets a week to break down geelongs game style we get beaten. 3 -10 since 2011 or around that.

Goal less first quarters 4

Geelong 20 points (+1.2 v adelaide)
Against 169 points ( 25.19)

2012 v freo
2016 v syd
2017 rich v adel (1.2)
2018 melb

Numbers above are cherry picked it's still amazing though. Pressure geelong around the football and we will turn the ball over by default poor skills under pressure in turn we flood backwards teams get on a run game over.

4 top four finishes
13,14,16,17
3 prelims and a straight sets not one grand final berth.

That's without even touching our Achilles heal forward half efficiency managed to kick 40 points against Richmond in the 2017 blowout an mcg low since the 1960's.

2016 - w (Haw 2 ) L ( Syd 37 )
2017 - L ( Rich 51 ) W ( 59 Syd ) L (61 Adel)
2018 - L ( melb 29 )

It's clear his gameplan in finals is flawed just the consistency and similar nature of the losses as well. You can't amass these types of records and hang your hat on the regular season and point to that and say job done. Coaches earn all the chocolates in the finals it's their gameplan and job to give that 22 the runs out the best tactical advantage possible and confidence.

Just the results mean the coaching panel needs to soul search just as much as the players need to improve

It's hard to argue against the results, other than to say that players being switched on for big games lies at the feet of more than the head coach.

The administration that provides a culture of comfortability, and player protection, perhaps. I mean the match committee is more than just the head coach.

The players themselves. And. I mean at the very top - Selwood in last year's final, before the free, did not perform. What was going through his head? If a living legend of the game is providing that sort of leadership on field, what is the coach able to do? I know if I saw him on my team being blanketed as a 20 year old, it would affect my confidence.

Yes, I agree his method needs tweaking, but to lay every shit thing that occurred in our finals history at his feet seems like overreach to me.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Fair enough. You are right, we disagree on where our lists are at.

Spazz, you are a reasonable poster, my rants are not directed at you, but I do get caught up in the constant negativity on this thread sometimes. My apology for reading more into your post than I should have.

All good, I enjoy reading your points of view.
I don't care if we disagree on anything, it's just opinions on the team we both go for.
Anyway, one thing we can agree on is we both hope your right.

 

[Vdubs]

You and I have alluded to it before, and I am sure we are not alone. I think everybody wants to see more attractive, attacking footy. But there is also the two other big avenues for easy goals that we need to address - centre clearances and rebound goals out of our fifty.

We definitely need to address the centre clearance problem - we get shocked in first quarters against decent midfields. That falls to both players and game plan, imo. I think Scott is too cavalier about the importance of centre clearances - it's great to have faith in your back six, but the game is now played from the centre forward. Conversely, when the players are on, our game plan stands up, but it looks horrible if they are slightly off. I think we have to change our half back slingshot approach and start dominating at the centre.

The second issues, we push up and then cannot retain the ball in our forward fifty. A quick boot over the back and we are too easily exposed. That is where our forwardline pressure must improve, imo. Easy exits hurt us badly.

Structural deficiencies like a lack of a second key forward hurt, but we still scored winning margins - so hopefully Sav will free Hawkins to play upfield a bit more where he is dangerous. I will be disappointed if Scott plays Hawkins as full forward.

In a nutshell, we need to stop the ball from getting past the centre more than we have in the past, be more direct, and be more defensive in our forward. In my opinion.

Good comments and observations, but let us not forget we won 3 flags with the back 6 springboarding our offensive game, and more than not losing CC's. Of course, our overall talent was far superior all over the ground in that era.

 

[JumpyHolden]

Wrong. Some of these posters are 2007 walk-ups and can't stand the sight of the club not winning a premiership every year so they spend their miserable existence in here with their tail between their legs in search of a bone.

what a load of garbage.

 

[Ricketz]

Good comments and observations, but let us not forget we won 3 flags with the back 6 springboarding our offensive game, and more than not losing CC's. Of course, our overall talent was far superior all over the ground in that era.

Yep, I definitely agree. And it was great to watch. Your point about the overall quality of our side back then is bang on, we had a couple of excellent targets and gun crumbers up forward, and our mids and HBF were guns by foot - and we executed more often than not. I think we are lacking a bit there these days, and the resulting turnovers kill us.

Additionally, we play it safer these days, trying to retain possession from the back half around the boundary and switching. To me, that must be a confidence thing - and that is squarely a coaching problem. Whether the coaches don't have faith in the players and instruct them to play that way, or whether the players make the decision themselves.

It hurts us on the opposition spread and hardworking sides have too much time to get extras back into our forwardline. I hope we address this problem this year.

 

[00VicWard001]

I thought Blicav's year was every bit as good as Hawkins'.
Could have been either, as well as Kelly.

Let’s not forget, Hawkins was suspended for doing something very stupid. That would lower him in the eyes of the coaches and club.

 

[00VicWard001]

Don't think you read his posts at all. Not at all what he was saying.
Anyway, I think Wingard is shocking now and not getting his mojo back. Poor trade.

He might go up 5% in this honeymoon period, but he’s pretty much reached his ceiling. So he isn’t going to dramatically improve and recapture his form of 3 years ago.

If he had the ability to reinvent himself and play a new role and apply his current capability to that role to excel in it (i.e. become a attacking half back player) now that would be interesting.

However, Hinkley is no dummy and he would have tested all this out with their training and simulations and metrics and it would likely have not been a good spot for him. Port gave him up pretty easily - so he’s clearly not that much of a required player.

 

[Partridge]

what a load of garbage.

I'd be curious to see exactly which posters have stated that we need to win the flag every year.

 

[Spazz Cat]

I'd be curious to see exactly which posters have stated that we need to win the flag every year.

Not a single one. Never happened.
Actually the posters who are copping the most shit at the moment are the ones who aren't upset about not making finals and happy for the club to build again.
How the f**k someone could excrete that post out of their arse is beyond me.