Prediction Who will finish higher in 2019 - Richmond, West Coast, Collingwood or Melbourne?

[Hannabal]

And your excuse for the Prelim?

I have made the point I think Melb have the best list IMO and listed other reasons for improvement.
Many of my Melb mates are concerned that these failures in crunch games are a worry - glad you are more positive, but I’m sure it still lurks as an issue for also.

Do you accept the explanations for 2017, or not ?

"Lurks as an issue'' ? If any mental demons were an issue they were well and truly going to be tested against the two teams that had embarrassed us more then any others this century. Imagine coming up against Geelong and Hawthorn in your first two finals in a dozen years. Geelong had made mince meat of Melbourne nearly all my life. They inflicted the famous 186 in 2011 that ended Bailey's coaching career. They'd already beaten us twice in 2018. Hawthorn have dished out regular 100 point thumpings for the last decade plus and had inflicted an 11 goal thrashing in round 4 earleir in the year. For God's sake man, surely if any issues were ''lurking'' then the first two finals were the place for them to manifest themselves ?

Excuse for the prelim ? How about not good enough ? Yet.

The talent is there the maturity at the end of a long season wasn't. Surely this isn't ground-breaking stuff for you ?

 

[Zoom]

So the I50 pressure drops with Caddy leaving to play midfield - it highlights my point that you need to change your game plan. And you haven’t answered who replaces Grigg because you can’t keep him rucking - obviously you need to add a tall.
So I think you see my point.

Caddy didn’t apply pressure lol. He played tall. He barely ran or chased i50. You obviously didn’t watch us play much if you think Caddy’s pressure is a significant loss.

As for Grigg, I tend to agree. The experiment is over. There is talk Rance’s role will change similarly to a Lever/Gibson type and we add Garthwaite to our defence. This will allow either Astbury or Garthwaite to ruck when Nankervis is resting. Genius move. Strengthens up our defence and ruck at the same time.

I’m glad you’re concerned for us but by the sounds of it, our coaches are all over it. You need to trust them. They did win us a premiership at the end of the day, didn’t they?

 

[Zoom]

And your excuse for the Prelim?

I have made the point I think Melb have the best list IMO and listed other reasons for improvement.
Many of my Melb mates are concerned that these failures in crunch games are a worry - glad you are more positive, but I’m sure it still lurks as an issue for also.

Collingwood’s failure in big games is more of a glaring problem than Melbourne’s IMO.

Melbourne lost over in the west in unfamiliar conditions at an unfamiliar ground. They weren’t expected to win either. You can hardly consider that a failure. Collingwood were pantsed by an interstate side (without their two best players) on their home deck with the majority of the crowd behind them. They also blew a five goal lead in the process and were at once stage paying $1.03 to win. I’d say your “crunch” moments need more addressing than Melbourne’s.

WCE and Richmond obviously aren’t in the conversation as we’ve both tasted the ultimate success and are proven in crunch moments.

Cheers

 

[Fadge]

Collingwood’s failure in big games is more of a glaring problem than Melbourne’s IMO.

Melbourne lost over in the west in unfamiliar conditions at an unfamiliar ground. They weren’t expected to win either. You can hardly consider that a failure. Collingwood were pantsed by an interstate side (without their two best players) on their home deck with the majority of the crowd behind them. They also blew a five goal lead in the process and were at once stage paying $1.03 to win. I’d say your “crunch” moments need more addressing than Melbourne’s.

So to be clear, Melbourne get pantsed by ten goals after not scoring a goal in the first half, and you don't regard that as a failure?

Collingwood play the same team a week later, and lose by the toss of a coin, and we 'struggle in big games'?

Interesting logic.

 

[doppleganger]

Caddy didn’t apply pressure lol. He played tall. He barely ran or chased i50. You obviously didn’t watch us play much if you think Caddy’s pressure is a significant loss.

??

Caddy had the 3rd most pressure acts at Richmond with 401 in 2018, only J.Graham and Cotchin had more.

Perhaps open both eyes next time you watch a Tiger game.

 

[Zoom]

??

Caddy had the 3rd most pressure acts at Richmond with 401 in 2018, only J.Graham and Cotchin had more.

Perhaps open both eyes next time you watch a Tiger game.

Oh boy. Do you know what constitutes as a “pressure act” these days?

 

[Zoom]

So to be clear, Melbourne get pantsed by ten goals after not scoring a goal in the first half, and you don't regard that as a failure?

Collingwood play the same team a week later, and lose by the toss of a coin, and we 'struggle in big games'?

Interesting logic.

You choked when you were in an extremely winnable position. They lost to the eventual premiers and are an incredibly young team. Do you know why you’ve been dubbed the Colliwobbles?

 

[doppleganger]

Oh boy. Do you know what constitutes as a “pressure act” these days?

Yes.

Chasing, corralling, closing and tackling...are what make up pressure acts.

At Richmond, only J.Graham and Cotchin were better than Caddy in 2018.

To give you a comparison, J.Reiwoldt was ranked 22nd at Richmond for pressure acts.

But yeah, Caddy doesn’t apply pressure

 

[Fadge]

You choked when you were in an extremely winnable position. They lost to the eventual premiers and are an incredibly young team. Do you know why you’ve been dubbed the Colliwobbles?

Cool.

Doesn't say a lot about Richmond's performance against the Collywobbles the week prior, does it?

You guys seriously can't help yourself. Grow up.

 

[No SPIN]

Collingwood’s failure in big games is more of a glaring problem than Melbourne’s IMO.

Melbourne lost over in the west in unfamiliar conditions at an unfamiliar ground. They weren’t expected to win either. You can hardly consider that a failure. Collingwood were pantsed by an interstate side (without their two best players) on their home deck with the majority of the crowd behind them. They also blew a five goal lead in the process and were at once stage paying $1.03 to win. I’d say your “crunch” moments need more addressing than Melbourne’s.

WCE and Richmond obviously aren’t in the conversation as we’ve both tasted the ultimate success and are proven in crunch moments.

Cheers

Unfamiliar Ground - they beat WC over there in RD 22

 

[Hannabal]

So to be clear, Melbourne get pantsed by ten goals after not scoring a goal in the first half, and you don't regard that as a failure?

Collingwood play the same team a week later, and lose by the toss of a coin, and we 'struggle in big games'?

Interesting logic.

One team is playing in oppressive heat at the most hostile venue in the AFL and the other is playing on their home ground in front of an adoring crowd.

Melbourne's best mids, i.e. Oliver, Brayshaw, Viney, Harmes have all played under 100 games and Viney was coming off a very limited preparation - notwithstanding his brave efforts in the first two finals.

Plus plenty of other really important Dees players were 70 games, or less, including Salem, Frost, Oscar McDonald, Petracca, Neal-Bullen, vandenBerg, Fritsch, Hannan, and Weideman.

So the bulk of the Dees most talented players were 100 or 70 games and less.

Maybe you can list your Pies equivalent in the same demographic ?

Clearly, and I really mean clearly, Melbourne were at a different stage to Collingwood in 2018.

 

[Big_Birdy]

You choked when you were in an extremely winnable position. They lost to the eventual premiers and are an incredibly young team. Do you know why you’ve been dubbed the Colliwobbles?

Not really

 

[No SPIN]

Do you accept the explanations for 2017, or not ?

"Lurks as an issue'' ? If any mental demons were an issue they were well and truly going to be tested against the two teams that had embarrassed us more then any others this century. Imagine coming up against Geelong and Hawthorn in your first two finals in a dozen years. Geelong had made mince meat of Melbourne nearly all my life. They inflicted the famous 186 in 2011 that ended Bailey's coaching career. They'd already beaten us twice in 2018. Hawthorn have dished out regular 100 point thumpings for the last decade plus and had inflicted an 11 goal thrashing in round 4 earleir in the year. For God's sake man, surely if any issues were ''lurking'' then the first two finals were the place for them to manifest themselves ?

Excuse for the prelim ? How about not good enough ? Yet.

The talent is there the maturity at the end of a long season wasn't. Surely this isn't ground-breaking stuff for you ?

Not sure how the current list can be praised for overcoming the inadequacies of previous lists in the last dozen years.

If my Melb mates have concerns ( mainly based on these performances and the camp fiasco) then I have to respect that - but the season will tell all.

 

[No SPIN]

One team is playing in oppressive heat at the most hostile venue in the AFL and the other is playing on their home ground in front of an adoring crowd.

Melbourne's best mids, i.e. Oliver, Brayshaw, Viney, Harmes have all played under 100 games and Viney was coming off a very limited preparation - notwithstanding his brave efforts in the first two finals.

Plus plenty of other really important Dees players were 70 games, or less, including Salem, Frost, Oscar McDonald, Petracca, Neal-Bullen, vandenBerg, Fritsch, Hannan, and Weideman.

So the bulk of the Dees most talented players were 100 or 70 games and less.

Maybe you can list your Pies equivalent in the same demographic ?

Clearly, and I really mean clearly, Melbourne were at a different stage to Collingwood in 2018.

You're making excuses about the ground and environment - you beat them over there in RD 22.
That's why MELB was favoured to win.

 

[Fadge]

Clearly, and I really mean clearly, Melbourne were at a different stage to Collingwood in 2018.

It was certainly clear to me on Queen's Birthday.

 

[4tone]

Pies will finish The H&A first with games and loads of percentage on the next Club. The best list in the comp.
West Coast will finish 2 or 3 see how they go interstate.
Richmond will finish 6 or lower, got their arses shown to them by a superior pies side, others will follow. They are not improving with no second ruck and aging midfield.
Melbourne 8th or lower, Lost dominate forward, didn't improve their midfield, still have turkeys like Lewis on their list and the draw is a nightmare.

Enjoy.

 

[Zoom]

Yes.

Chasing, corralling, closing and tackling...are what make up pressure acts.

At Richmond, only J.Graham and Cotchin were better than Caddy in 2018.

To give you a comparison, J.Reiwoldt was ranked 22nd at Richmond for pressure acts.

But yeah, Caddy doesn’t apply pressure

Yeah, you’ve barely scratched the surface and to no surprise you have little understanding of it.

A pressure act by definition is something that affect’s your opponent’s decision making (physical or implied). A pressure act can include tackling, laying a hand on an opponent while he has the ball, corralling/chasing, making an opponent hurry their kick, standing on the mark (in some cases) and literally just standing at a contest (hint: perceived pressure).

It’s a junk and misunderstood stat. Too many grey areas and players are often awarded for pressure acts when they shouldn’t be and not awarded for pressure acts when they should be. The recording of pressure acts is also inconsistent and inaccurate. Source: a friend from CD.

Standing next to an opponent at a stoppage while he receives the ball and disposes it is technically a pressure act. That’s why taggers often have pressure ratings through the roof (see: J. Graham) or anyone at stoppages for that matter. Literally a physical presence at a stoppage is recorded as a pressure act, especially if your opponent hurries the ball onto his boot. This explains Caddy’s pressure rating. He sits deep at stoppages inside our fifty and players hurry their kicks when clearing it. Our best pressure players are spread from the contest and are ready to run down an attempt to clear the ball out through a linkup of handballs.

Pressure acts are a nonsense buzz stat and coaches should be advised against using it. The only way to guage pressure is to make observations yourself. The amount of times pressure act merchant Sam Landsburger or whatever the f*** his name is has made a complete d*ck of himself with useless pressure stats is laughable. Simply don’t use it. Toby Nankervis IIRC recorded a higher pressure rating than Shane Edwards FFS lol. Says it all really. I guess it helps nuffys make arguments on BigFooty so it does serve some people a purpose.

 

[Zoom]

Unfamiliar Ground - they beat WC over there in RD 22

To keep their season alive in a game WCE could afford to drop.

 

[Zoom]

Cool.

Doesn't say a lot about Richmond's performance against the Collywobbles the week prior, does it?

You guys seriously can't help yourself. Grow up.

We won the flag in 2017. We have nothing more to prove. You guys didn’t win a flag. Juuuuussstttt missed out in the dying minutes. Poor crunch time performance IMO.

 

[Dez!]

And your excuse for the Prelim?

I have made the point I think Melb have the best list IMO and listed other reasons for improvement.
Many of my Melb mates are concerned that these failures in crunch games are a worry - glad you are more positive, but I’m sure it still lurks as an issue for also.

We had a bad game and were punished by a good team in West Coast on their home ground, you know what happened in 2017 to the Eagles? They got annihilated by GWS to the tune of 11 goals at the Giants home base.

 

[Zoom]

Not really

Their key players are younger than West Coast’s, Collingwood’s and Richmond’s.

 

[Fadge]

We won the flag in 2017. We have nothing more to prove.

The Saints won a flag in 1966. I guess they've got nothing more to prove as well.

 

[Zoom]

The Saints won a flag in 1966. I guess they've got nothing more to prove as well.

Didn’t realise their list was still together?

 

[Big_Birdy]

Their key players are younger than West Coast’s, Collingwood’s and Richmond’s.

OK, still doesn't make them an incredibly young side.

 

[Forward Press]

To keep their season alive in a game WCE could afford to drop.

No we couldn't, it meant we had to win in our last game to ensure a top two spot.

It was by no means a dead rubber and our team selection that day reflected this.

A fair few Richmond fans are keen to downplay the achievements of Melbourne and Collingwood. Your team lost a prelim they were favoured to win, s**t happens.