Delisted Jack Martin [Selected by Carlton in the PSD]

[GatesOfHell]

Is it just me, or has this been a refreshing trade period and a win for clubs? Players aren't getting to clubs they request, clubs are holding firm and refusing to budge on under's just because the player is out of contract. It would be another win for the AFL and clubs sending a message to players if Melbourne got him in the PSD and misses out on Carlton.

Agree. So contrary to previous poster’s opinion it’s not just you.

 

[Juzzk1d]

Agree. So contrary to previous poster’s opinion it’s not just you.

The only people disagreeing with me are salty Carlton fans who didn't get what they wanted during the trade period.

 

[frank99]

Just as we don’t have to roll over because the AFL pulled out the most ridiculous handout package ever seen.

I don't disagree with you there. It's unfortunate for Carlton that those handouts directly impacted the Martin trade, no doubt. However the argument that the Suns are "acting like spoiled brats" because they won't accept Carlton's offer is ridiculous - the Suns are well within their rights to reject what was offered.

 

[Juzzk1d]

I don't disagree with you there. It's unfortunate for Carlton that those handouts directly impacted the Martin trade, no doubt. However the argument that the Suns are "acting like spoiled brats" because they won't accept Carlton's offer is ridiculous - the Suns are well within their rights to reject what was offered.

This is absolutely spot on. Carlton fans in here are acting as if they have the right to lure Martin and GC just need to roll over and take what they are presented to them. It's disgusting. This is why this trade period has been one of the best, with clubs actually holding firm and not being absolutely reemed just because a player is out of contract or wants to go home. Don't come to the party with what GC are asking for Martin? Then risk losing him all together. A big win for the AFL.

 

[Pablito]

I don't disagree with you there. It's unfortunate for Carlton that those handouts directly impacted the Martin trade, no doubt. However the argument that the Suns are "acting like spoiled brats" because they won't accept Carlton's offer is ridiculous - the Suns are well within their rights to reject what was offered.

It's their right to reject an offer no doubt, but should they have? No if you look at what they've lost out on as a result (second and third rounder).

 

[jooce8891]

If that's Carlton's best offer, it was rubbish.

why? instead of just saying its rubbish, explain why?

 

[jooce8891]

How many time I need to tell you to wait until PSD is over. A confident person don't keep going on and on about the same thing over and over again. Don't get the fear thing, if you 100% sure you get him in PSD why still discuss it here. This place is to discuss other alternative, if not move it back to Carlton board.

You don't tell people what to do or dictate the term , after losing bet on Martin not going to PSD earlier.

hows the irony peely!

 

[GatesOfHell]

I have attached the points draft value the AFL use to assess the value of draft picks. If Carlton finishes 16th next year (as we did this year) then our 2nd Rounder will be worth 878 points and our 3rd Rounder worth 446 points. 878+446 = 1324 points Turning our attention back to the draft value sheet provided by the AFL, this equates to pick 11-12.

Those formulas are only a guide. There are other equally if not not more important variables, such as the relative quality of selections through the first round. A club might highly rate only the first 8 picks in the draft, then feel there is a significant gap in standard from picks 9 through 15, then another gap to the next group and so on. The draft value sheet would not be the first port of call in any club’s assessment of a trade offer, including Carlton’s.

 

[gcsunsfc]

I have attached the points draft value the AFL use to assess the value of draft picks. If Carlton finishes 16th next year (as we did this year) then our 2nd Rounder will be worth 878 points and our 3rd Rounder worth 446 points. 878+446 = 1324 points Turning our attention back to the draft value sheet provided by the AFL, this equates to pick 11-12.

I'm guessing the Suns recruiting staff weren't thinking you'd finish 16th.
They were going with a more realistic projection.
Including factoring in the substantial number of bids that will be matched and understanding of the draft class from the recruiting that they have already done.

We currently have our first round, pick 11, our second round, brisbane lions second round next year. + Alex Davies from the academy.
Our recruiters will know which of our players are off contract (not many), which are likely to be delisted, how many list spots that gives us. etc..

They obviously didn't think that a second rounder - likely to end up closer to 30 and 3rd rounder, end up closer to 50 given our other picks and our current playing list / contract status etc.. were of value.


If those points are equivalent to pick 11-12 why didn't you just go get us pick 11-12 - we would have taken that pick no doubt.

 

[Orange Agent]

I have attached the points draft value the AFL use to assess the value of draft picks. If Carlton finishes 16th next year (as we did this year) then our 2nd Rounder will be worth 878 points and our 3rd Rounder worth 446 points. 878+446 = 1324 points Turning our attention back to the draft value sheet provided by the AFL, this equates to pick 11-12.

Which is useless information unless they have a kid in the Academy expected to go that high.

 

[gcsunsfc]

I get that it is a general guide...it also depends on who the club wants on their list (eg character) but it also goes to show the astonishing claims made by some on this thread that the Carlton offer was not fair.

To get a closer look; Melbourne traded with Gold Coast May and Kolodjashnij for pick 6 last year which equals 1751 points. If you divide that by 2 it equals 875 which is equal to pick 21 for each of the players. May a former captain and Kolodjashnij a former pick 5 for pick 21 but Martin is not worth pick 11.

We were not offering Kolodjasnij another contract.
It was essentially pick 6 for May and a freebie to give Kade another chance.

 

[gcsunsfc]

Which is useless information unless they have a kid in the Academy expected to go that high.

With the new pre-listing rules we don't need to use national draft picks to pre-list academy players so doesn't even have that relevance!

 

[gcsunsfc]

you did not offer Martin another contract; so why the change of heart?

I'm not sure that is true? where have you read that. Jack will no doubt be a better player in a better, more attacking side where he can play a more favourable high forward role - I think we're hoping we improve a bit this year. I'm sure if he puts the effort in - like he did in the first part of the year - he would have a career year.

At this point in time, as unlikely as it is, the best outcome for us is that he re-signs for one more year and then can leave as a free agent next year.

Given the offered rate has been reported as 650-700k at various outlets with a 4 year contract you'd think that is at least band 2, if not band 1 compensation.

 

[GatesOfHell]

I get that it is a general guide...it also depends on who the club wants on their list (eg character) but it also goes to show the astonishing claims made by some on this thread that the Carlton offer was not fair.

To get a closer look; Melbourne traded with Gold Coast May and Kolodjashnij for pick 6 last year which equals 1751 points. If you divide that by 2 it equals 875 which is equal to pick 21 for each of the players. May a former captain and Kolodjashnij a former pick 5 for pick 21 but Martin is not worth pick 11.

Kolodjashnij’s value plummeted after his repeated concussions while playing for the Suns. Much like Patton a former No.1 pick picked up by Hawthorn for a fourth rounder, Kolo remains a speculative chance at making it at AFL level. He was no more than steak knives in that May deal.

 

[gcsunsfc]

I think he will end up at Carlton because he nominated us and the club did all it could to get him. It will be interesting how it all plays out but i will be disappointed if we missed out on him. He has upside but is 24 now and has been in the system a while. I hope GCS get a good bunch of loyal lads coming through too.

I'm sure he'll end up with you through the PSD - be odds on to play out that way. I'll hate it when he can play in his best role and do well next year.

I disagree you did all you could to get him.
I guess a key part of making a trade is trading something the other party values - ultimately, you didn't do that.

 

[Juzzk1d]

i respectfully disagree...pick fives should never go for steaks knives and 4th rounders going to 4thawn is becoming a yearly tradition.

Mate, what are you on? Just because a player went between picks 1-10, doesn't mean he can't be steak knives.

- Jack Watts
- Cale Morton
- Jimmy Toumpas
- Lucas Cook
- Jack Trengove

Just to name a few....

 

[gcsunsfc]

no doubt our picks became immediately less valuable once the AFL announced the priority pick package on the cusp of trade week and Cameron admitted that; but i still think pick 11-12 (give or take a few spots) was a fair deal for Martin.

you didn't offer pick 12

 

[gcsunsfc]

i respectfully disagree...pick fives should never go for steaks knives and 4th rounders going to 4thawn is becoming a yearly tradition.

Gold Coast were not even offering him another contract - effectively delisting him.
He was a throw in in the deal.

 

[Blackas87]

i respectfully disagree...pick fives should never go for steaks knives and 4th rounders going to 4thawn is becoming a yearly tradition.

Kade Kolodjashnij was going to be delisted by the Gold Coast, he had no value regardless of where he was drafted.

 

[Blackas87]

I am talking about the Martin Trade

Could of sworn you were talking about May and Kolodjashnij trade

To get a closer look; Melbourne traded with Gold Coast May and Kolodjashnij for pick 6 last year which equals 1751 points. If you divide that by 2 it equals 875 which is equal to pick 21 for each of the players. May a former captain and Kolodjashnij a former pick 5 for pick 21 but Martin is not worth pick 11.

 

[Skull Face]

How many time I need to tell you to wait until PSD is over. A confident person don't keep going on and on about the same thing over and over again. Don't get the fear thing, if you 100% sure you get him in PSD why still discuss it here. This place is to discuss other alternative, if not move it back to Carlton board.

No this thread is to discuss him leaving your club

 

[Skull Face]

Is it just me, or has this been a refreshing trade period and a win for clubs? Players aren't getting to clubs they request, clubs are holding firm and refusing to budge on under's just because the player is out of contract. It would be another win for the AFL and clubs sending a message to players if Melbourne got him in the PSD and misses out on Carlton.

Look at the why though, Martin because GC were given over the top handouts and Daniher/Papley because Essendon know its rebuild time if they lose their only key forward and have to wait for a kid to develop.

 

[Jirik13]

I am surprised that nobody talks about the future slide offer by Suns mentioned by Cameron. It was confirmed by the Age. Martin + pick 11 2020 for Carlton's pick 9 2019.

Why Carton fans are not happy? Getting Martin for free in PSD should make you pretty excited. What's the issue? Clubs valued Martin differently. According to AFL rules Martin has several options - PSD, ND, to be de-listed, extend with Suns, retire. Move on.

 

[gcsunsfc]

I am surprised that nobody talks about the future slide offer by Suns mentioned by Cameron. It was confirmed by the Age. Martin + pick 11 2020 for Carlton's pick 9 2019.

Why Carton fans are not happy? Getting Martin for free in PSD should make you pretty excited. What's the issue? Clubs valued Martin differently. According to AFL rules Martin has several options - PSD, ND, to be de-listed, extend with Suns, retire. Move on.

That would also include Carltons second round coming to GC in 2020 too I'd suggest.

 

[Jirik13]

That would also include Carltons second round coming to GC in 2020 too I'd suggest.

Not sure. The article did not mention it. Probably.