The Bigfooty Official Week 12 NBA Lonzo Ball discussion thread.

[Scallop Industry Thug]

My 2 cents on the Mavs.

I remember there was a robust discussion on here years back when the Mavs traded for Rondo. Personally I was not in favour, as the Mavs's offence was rolling then too, and I tend to favour the "if it ain't broke" mantra as a rule. I can understand that viewpoint.

This iteration of the Mavs is obviously rolling along too, but the caveat is that everything in their system orbits around Doncic. That's only to be expected of course, but Dallas basically fill their secondary playmaker role by committee - Curry, Hardaway, Wright, Brunson, Barea etc.

Pork is obviously the Mavs' second most important player, and while using him primarily as a spacer during the regular season is fine, they're going to have to work out a way for him to manufacture some of his own offence when the playoffs roll around and Doncic needs a breather.

Whether that is done by a steady diet of pick and roll/pop with their plethora of guards, or alternatively by having Pork at least work on a Dirk-style mid-post game, I know not. It's safe to say that it's something that they'll have to address at some stage though.

Good post. Doncic might end up being the best pick and roll ball handler of all time. I think the mani use of KP post ups is when teams switch guards on to him. He was getting bullied by Marcus Smart. Throwing the ball to him in those situations needs to be an option.

And FWIW, Porzingis has been one of the best rim defenders in the league this year. His rebounding has been huge and the shot alterations are the key to our defense.

 

[Son of Skeletor]

Good post. Doncic might end up being the best pick and roll ball handler of all time. I think the mani use of KP post ups is when teams switch guards on to him. He was getting bullied by Marcus Smart. Throwing the ball to him in those situations needs to be an option.

And FWIW, Porzingis has been one of the best rim defenders in the league this year. His rebounding has been huge and the shot alterations are the key to our defense.

Yeah overall I like his fit with Doncic a lot. The contributions he makes to your defence are invaluable.

As you alluded to, it's those last 5 minutes of games and/or playoff games when Doncic is swamped that you need a bail out option. Pork is never going to become a Sabonis or even a Vucevic in the post, but if he could develop a Dirk/Aldridge fall-away it'd help you out heaps.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

Can I join the Dallas debate? I'd much rather KP bombing from the logo than posting at 18 feet. The offense is historical and is based around the Luka and KP/Powell pick and rolls. If anything Luka should be posted more because he always has a strength mismatch (which Porzingis never has) and can pass out of the post, which may be more valuable than post scoring.

Anyway, Dallas would be first in the west of they could score in the clutch. Teams are loading up on Luka, and Carlisle hasn't figured it out yet.

Yeah overall I like his fit with Doncic a lot. The contributions he makes to your defence are invaluable.

As you alluded to, it's those last 5 minutes of games and/or playoff games when Doncic is swamped that you need a bail out option. Pork is never going to become a Sabonis or even a Vucevic in the post, but if he could develop a Dirk/Aldridge fall-away it'd help you out heaps.

Even if KP was in the post, he doesn’t have to score from there, but you’re going to get some great action if Powell, et all cut as KP is going to see over his 99% of his defenders. I would just like to see it once in a while if things are going cold elsewhere.

Like all great players do and especially with his workload, Doncic tires late in games, which is why that 3 gets settled for.

 

[LB#16]

 

[Ron]

Throughout the game it was poorly officiated.
The nba officials make the game so sh*t to watch these days.

You complain about the officiating being s**t these days, but when the refs make the correct call and don't reward Kemba for his massive flop you chuck a tanty.
Make up your mind.

 

[fidstar]

Because you are unable to grasp that beating up on lesser teams skews efficiency stats and when they come up against better opposition, that efficiency declines, it’s really not hard to grasp.

The fact that Houston are second in offensive efficiency stats says it all

Every good team beats up against bad teams because they are bad teams.

Every teams efficiency declines against good teams because they're good teams.

It's been like that all through NBA history.

Super strange argument.

It's weird you want to single out Dallas.

Dallas run a really good offense. Not posting up the worst post up players in the league is one of the reasons for that.

And Houston's offense is awesome fwiw. Their style just drops off in the playoffs.

 

[fidstar]

I sort of feel a little sorry for Houston. In a non-super-Warrior team world they have one or two championships right now and people would be talking about how awesome their game plan is.

 

[fidstar]

Nah * that. * Harden and Houston.

 

[fidstar]

My 2 cents on the Mavs.

I remember there was a robust discussion on here years back when the Mavs traded for Rondo. Personally I was not in favour, as the Mavs's offence was rolling then too, and I tend to favour the "if it ain't broke" mantra as a rule. I can understand that viewpoint.

This iteration of the Mavs is obviously rolling along too, but the caveat is that everything in their system orbits around Doncic. That's only to be expected of course, but Dallas basically fill their secondary playmaker role by committee - Curry, Hardaway, Wright, Brunson, Barea etc.

Pork is obviously the Mavs' second most important player, and while using him primarily as a spacer during the regular season is fine, they're going to have to work out a way for him to manufacture some of his own offence when the playoffs roll around and Doncic needs a breather.

Whether that is done by a steady diet of pick and roll/pop with their plethora of guards, or alternatively by having Pork at least work on a Dirk-style mid-post game, I know not. It's safe to say that it's something that they'll have to address at some stage though.

He's just not equipped to work the post. If Dallas had Embiid then it's a different story. Post away.

 

[fidstar]

Can I join the Dallas debate? I'd much rather KP bombing from the logo than posting at 18 feet. The offense is historical and is based around the Luka and KP/Powell pick and rolls. If anything Luka should be posted more because he always has a strength mismatch (which Porzingis never has) and can pass out of the post, which may be more valuable than post scoring.

Anyway, Dallas would be first in the west of they could score in the clutch. Teams are loading up on Luka, and Carlisle hasn't figured it out yet.

I think it has a lot to do with Luka being 20 (as much as a freak as he is).

It's probably the last thing players learn because it comes down to being in the situation over and over again.

 

[fidstar]

I don' believe in multi posting....

 

[Son of Skeletor]

He's just not equipped to work the post. If Dallas had Embiid then it's a different story. Post away.

There's different levels of posting though.

At your higher end you have your Shaqs (brute power) and Olajuwons (technicians). Players you can go to repeatedly.

Then you have guys who basically only ever master one post move in their career because they prefer another style - eg. Chris Webber and his half hook.

Porzingis will obviously never be a post guy. But if he can develop one go to move - a half hook like Webber, or a fall-away like Dirk - it might be enough. Obviously those are not post moves that require raw power or even great footwork - just height and repetition.

Agreed that this isn't the 90s anymore and that post scoring will remain a niche skill at best in the medium term future - especially with a team like Dallas. They do need an option B for a go-to bucket getter when the stakes get high though, and commanding a max salary as he does the burden will most likely fall upon Pork. IMO he's skilled enough that he should be able to develop at least one iso scoring move, even if he'll never be a true post beast.

 

[Gak Attack]

Jim Harden 9/34 and 4/20 from 3 today. My goodness.

It's Atlanta. He would have gone straight from the strip club to shoot around.

Nah fu** that. fu** Harden and Houston.

Hey * you buddy .

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

And Houston's offense is awesome fwiw. Their style just drops off in the playoffs.

This is a very strange comment.

 

[Memphis]

A most unguardable pick n roll duo.


Wait. It’s just today?

Might be today too with the 76ers hold onto your hat.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

Might be today too with the 76ers hold onto your hat.

It’s ok mate. Mine is tin foil, so it’s a snug fit.

 

[Santoz]

There's different levels of posting though.

At your higher end you have your Shaqs (brute power) and Olajuwons (technicians). Players you can go to repeatedly.

Then you have guys who basically only ever master one post move in their career because they prefer another style - eg. Chris Webber and his half hook.

Porzingis will obviously never be a post guy. But if he can develop one go to move - a half hook like Webber, or a fall-away like Dirk - it might be enough. Obviously those are not post moves that require raw power or even great footwork - just height and repetition.

Agreed that this isn't the 90s anymore and that post scoring will remain a niche skill at best in the medium term future - especially with a team like Dallas. They do need an option B for a go-to bucket getter when the stakes get high though, and commanding a max salary as he does the burden will most likely fall upon Pork. IMO he's skilled enough that he should be able to develop at least one iso scoring move, even if he'll never be a true post beast.

Do you think that in the future a low post technician, like an Olajuwon, could become dominant again because defenders are less practiced themselves at defending low post play and are better at defending the pick & roll for example because of the need to work on it more than post up defending?

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Some awesome games today

 

[Mazza1234678]

Embiid out for a while

Philly in big trouble

 

[Santoz]

Embiid out for a while

Philly in big trouble

They still got Al Horford though. All's not lost

 

[Mazza1234678]

They still got Al Horford though. All's not lost

Be interested to see if we see a big trade incoming there

 

[Memphis]

Throwing it out there peternorth would anyone here be interested in doing an association award thread?
I like how the soccer board thread does it.
Would be interesting on here too.

 

[nahnah]

would be nice if we didnt lose to a team starting Snell, Svi and Sekou again..

 

[Santoz]

would be nice if we didnt lose to a team starting Snell, Svi and Sekou again..

Don't forget Bruce Brown

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Lol Simmons

Dead set plodder shoot the thing you mug