Do Geelong have the best home ground advantage in the AFL?

[telsor]

Why does that even matter now though? When was the last time Geelong finished redevelopment and increased the capacity twofold? When was the cut-off point to freeze things the way they were? Remind me, when was the last time an AFL game was played in China? Cairns? NT? 18 teams? What year did we need to be playing 11 games at Kardinia Park in order to get the rightful amount now? Richmond didn't always play home games at the MCG, things change. Seems a really stupid argument to be frank.

Firstly, Geelong football club had bugger all to do with the redevelopment. It was paid for by the AFL and govenrments trying to pork barrel those electorates.

It matters because you're acting like it's some kind of divine right that you should play 11 games there, when the fact is your club hasn't done that in 50 years!

Oh, and as you guys keep forgetting... teams don't get 11 home games at the MCG either, so it's not like you're uniquely persecuted...as much as you like to pretend you are.



This whole thing came up when your club went into decline and became desperate to get a couple more soft wins so you could hold off the decline into being the poor lower-middle ranked club you will inevitably become.

 

[STPer18]

Firstly, Geelong football club had bugger all to do with the redevelopment. It was paid for by the AFL and govenrments trying to pork barrel those electorates.

It matters because you're acting like it's some kind of divine right that you should play 11 games there, when the fact is your club hasn't done that in 50 years!

Oh, and as you guys keep forgetting... teams don't get 11 home games at the MCG either, so it's not like you're uniquely persecuted...as much as you like to pretend you are.



This whole thing came up when your club went into decline and became desperate to get a couple more soft wins so you could hold off the decline into being the poor lower-middle ranked club you will inevitably become.

Wrong.

 

[Sterge]

Wrong.

Which part is wrong?

 

[Final Siren]

Well look at you, worked up all that courage to talk and yet all you managed was some cheap little angle of deflection.
How about we all give you a pile of "likes" for that effort.

The 2019* flag.

* Yeah we know. Everyone knows.

Too scared to travel down to sleepy hollow. Try not to make it so obvious.

Oh dear

 

[Inferno]

So Cats Home Games

2019
vs Hawthorn 53k
vs Essendon 63k

2018
vs Hawthorn 73k
Vs Richmond 43k

2017
vs Hawthorn 73k
vs Collingwood 43k

2016
vs Hawthorn 74k
Vs Essendon at Etihad 29k

2015
Vs Collingwood 40k
vs Carlton at Etihad 32k

2014
vs Hawthorn 80k
vs Essendon at Etihad 43k

Cats Away games vs Richmond at the G
2019 65k
2018 67k
2016 45k

Let's look at our home crowds in Melbourne for the last 10 years:

Hawthorn:
2019 - 53k
2018 - 73k
2017 - 70k
2016 - 74k
2015 - 55k
2014 - 80k
2013 - 85k
2012 - 69k
2011 - 63k
2010 - 69k
Average - 69k

Collingwood:
2017 - 46k
2015 - 40k
2012 - 61k
2011 - 81k
2010 - 84k
Average - 62k

Essendon:
2019 - 63k
2016 - 29k
2014 - 43k
2013 - 53k
2012 - 50k
2010 - 46k
Average - 47k

Richmond:
2018 - 46k
2014 - 34k
2011 - 33k
Average - 37k

You might notice one of these teams is a loooooong way behind the others. You might also notice that there's only 3 matches that got below 40k - two against Richmond and one against a WADA affected VFL quality Essendon right at the very end of what was by far their worst season in their history (real shocker that people weren't climbing over each other to get to that match).

The highest crowd against Richmond isn't even the average crowd we get against the other 3, and even then the Essendon matches were limited by the fact that all but the last one were at Docklands - if it was at the MCG those crowds almost certainly would've been higher. We've had more 50k+ crowds just between us and Essendon at Docklands than Richmond have had against everyone ever at Docklands.

The last time we've had below 40k against Essendon home or away bar the 2016 match (which for obvious reasons is an exception) was the last time they traveled down to Kardinia Park back in 1993. The last time we've had below 40k against Collingwood home or away was also the last time they traveled down to Kardinia Park in 1999.

Meanwhile our matches against Richmond home and away in Melbourne have quite regularly failed to even get close to 40k. Even in 2015 against Collingwood in a dead rubber at the very end of both ours and the Pies worst seasons in over a decade we still managed that figure!

Should I keep going back? The only team that constantly draws well for Geelong Homes games in Melbourne is Hawthorn for obvious reasons, but you haven't even packed out Marvel vs Essendon so whilst let me be very clear for the Cats fans in the room yes you should play 11 games in Geelong and zero in Melbourne the crowd figures show it isn't the Melbourne teams fault you don't draw well in Melbourne, even against Collingwood and Essendon.

Yeah sure, lets keep going back - We've had only 2 home games in Melbourne against Richmond which have drawn more than 40k - the most recent match, and one at Waverley Park way back in 1980! And even then that match was 47k - the highest ever against Richmond was 40 years ago and is only the average we get against Essendon, and below average to what we get against Hawthorn and Collingwood.

That's 4 decades of very mediocre crowds. Richmond fans have always not show up against us when they're not the home team, hell I mean you don't even show up in particularly great numbers against us compared to the others when you are the home team. From a Geelong perspective the Tiger Army only ever turns up when the bandwagon is up and running in September. That's not a problem we have with the other teams.

If we're forced to play at least 2 home matches in Melbourne your club isn't worth wasting one of those matches on when it can virtually always be played at Kardinia Park pretty comfortably.

Have you read any of my other posts? Understand you might be a bit slow so let me know when you get to them and have something meaningful to add

Unfortunately I have. As an ex-mod here I'm happy to try and give you some pointers to improve the quality of your posts if you'd like.

 

[MinerBoy]

Geelong (The real truth behind a narrow field of dominance):

1999 National Draft:
Pick 8- Joel Corey (276 Games)
----
Pick 31- Paul Chapman (280 Games)
Pick 38- Cameron Ling (246 Games)
Pick 47- Corey Enright (332 Games)

2001 National Draft:
Pick 8- Jimmy Bartel (305 Games)
Pick 17- James Kelly (313 Games)
----
Pick 24- Steve Johnson (293 Games)
Pick 40- Gary Ablett Jnr (346 Games*) F/S
----

That's 2 real good hauls right there. Great recruiting.

And yeah they have a wonderful advantage playing at their ground but meh, so what. All the clubs would love to hold their traditional home ground if it were feasible. Luckily for Geelong it is. Their situation being a Victorian, but non-Melbourne club, is unique and this is the result of that.

So no whinge from me they get their home games. Good on them. On the flip side they shouldn't complain about a handful of home MCG games a year against bigger drawing clubs. It's good for the fans of both teams and provides great experience for their players in front of big crowds and on the oval where the real stuff happens.

 

[MinerBoy]

The best home ground advantage is having the grand final played on your home ground every year.

Nothing else comes close

It's the most neutral ground in the AFL by so far it isn't even funny, and even moreso on GF day.

 

[MinerBoy]

It's the most neutral ground in the AFL by so far it isn't even funny, and even moreso on GF day.

romeohwho bh90210fan care to offer a different, more neutral ground?

 

[jim boy]

People can talk all they like about Geelong having a home ground advantage. And lets say I accept that and we end up with a couple of extra wins - at worst any other team will be one win down, by having a loss. what that means is that maybe the the final 8 composition is slightly changed.

Now come the finals - Geelong has virtually no right to play finals in Geelong, having been given that right only twice in 125 years and then early on in the finals, and Geelong lost both times.

Every other team has the right to play on the their home ground up until the GF (that IS unfair, but another topic).

Any advantage KP offers means didley squat come the business end of the season - Geelong always plays on someone else's home ground.

 

[Sterge]

Let's look at our home crowds in Melbourne for the last 10 years:

Hawthorn:
2019 - 53k
2018 - 73k
2017 - 70k
2016 - 74k
2015 - 55k
2014 - 80k
2013 - 85k
2012 - 69k
2011 - 63k
2010 - 69k
Average - 69k

Collingwood:
2017 - 46k
2015 - 40k
2012 - 61k
2011 - 81k
2010 - 84k
Average - 62k

Essendon:
2019 - 63k
2016 - 29k
2014 - 43k
2013 - 53k
2012 - 50k
2010 - 46k
Average - 47k

Richmond:
2018 - 46k
2014 - 34k
2011 - 33k
Average - 37k

You might notice one of these teams is a loooooong way behind the others. You might also notice that there's only 3 matches that got below 40k - two against Richmond and one against a WADA affected VFL quality Essendon right at the very end of what was by far their worst season in their history (real shocker that people weren't climbing over each other to get to that match).

The highest crowd against Richmond isn't even the average crowd we get against the other 3, and even then the Essendon matches were limited by the fact that all but the last one were at Docklands - if it was at the MCG those crowds almost certainly would've been higher. We've had more 50k+ crowds just between us and Essendon at Docklands than Richmond have had against everyone ever at Docklands.

The last time we've had below 40k against Essendon home or away bar the 2016 match (which for obvious reasons is an exception) was the last time they traveled down to Kardinia Park back in 1993. The last time we've had below 40k against Collingwood home or away was also the last time they traveled down to Kardinia Park in 1999.

Meanwhile our matches against Richmond home and away in Melbourne have quite regularly failed to even get close to 40k. Even in 2015 against Collingwood in a dead rubber at the very end of both ours and the Pies worst seasons in over a decade we still managed that figure!



Yeah sure, lets keep going back - We've had only 2 home games in Melbourne against Richmond which have drawn more than 40k - the most recent match, and one at Waverley Park way back in 1980! And even then that match was 47k - the highest ever against Richmond was 40 years ago and is only the average we get against Essendon, and below average to what we get against Hawthorn and Collingwood.

That's 4 decades of very mediocre crowds. Richmond fans have always not show up against us when they're not the home team, hell I mean you don't even show up in particularly great numbers against us compared to the others when you are the home team. From a Geelong perspective the Tiger Army only ever turns up when the bandwagon is up and running in September. That's not a problem we have with the other teams.

If we're forced to play at least 2 home matches in Melbourne your club isn't worth wasting one of those matches on when it can virtually always be played at Kardinia Park pretty comfortably.



Unfortunately I have. As an ex-mod here I'm happy to try and give you some pointers to improve the quality of your posts if you'd like.

Completely missed the point once again, i'm all for you playing all your games down in Geelong, at no point in your long rambling response did you even address that. Just went on a rant about Richmond.

 

[bh90210fan]

It's the most neutral ground in the AFL by so far it isn't even funny, and even moreso on GF day.

We played in a grand final with only a single mcg game under our belt against you a few years back. Don’t pretend non Vics and marvel tenants get to stomp all over the mcg regularly each season. It’s not neutral at all. Having all finals in Victoria plus the grand final on your home ground is the biggest leg up in the league

 

[bh90210fan]

romeohwho bh90210fan care to offer a different, more neutral ground?

For a gf venue?

most neutral would be
SCG, Spotless, Gabba, Metricon, Alphabet stadium

followed by Optus and Adelaide Oval

then would be marvel stadium

LEAST neutral is the Mcg Because it has the highest probability of having a team host another team with a direct home ground advantage

 

[blue harvest]

People can talk all they like about Geelong having a home ground advantage. And lets say I accept that and we end up with a couple of extra wins - at worst any other team will be one win down, by having a loss. what that means is that maybe the the final 8 composition is slightly changed.

Now come the finals - Geelong has virtually no right to play finals in Geelong, having been given that right only twice in 125 years and then early on in the finals, and Geelong lost both times.

Every other team has the right to play on the their home ground up until the GF (that IS unfair, but another topic).

Any advantage KP offers means didley squat come the business end of the season - Geelong always plays on someone else's home ground.

No they don't, Marvel tenants get shafted to the G for some home finals, Hawks have been shafted to Marvel for our home finals.

Kudos for accepting the H&A advantage but it can carry through to finals too because it gets you higher on the ladder, means you might get to play at the G instead of interstate, means you might get a QF instead of EF in week 1, and it's not like you don't have lots of experience at the G.

 

[blue harvest]

For a gf venue?

most neutral would be
SCG, Spotless, Gabba, Metricon, Alphabet stadium

followed by Optus and Adelaide Oval

then would be marvel stadium

LEAST neutral is the Mcg Because it has the highest probability of having a team host another team with a direct home ground advantage

Marvel has 5 tenants, wouldn't that have a higher probability of direct hga?

 

[MinerBoy]

For a gf venue?

most neutral would be
SCG, Spotless, Gabba, Metricon, Alphabet stadium

followed by Optus and Adelaide Oval

then would be marvel stadium

LEAST neutral is the Mcg Because it has the highest probability of having a team host another team with a direct home ground advantage

I think you missed the point.

Swans at SCG less neutral than any MCG tenant at MCG.
GWS at Spotless
Cats at Kardinia
Lions at Gabba
WCE/Freo at Optus

etc etc

MCG is the home base of the game and is locked in for the GFs. Yes some people want higher ranked sides to get home games, but seeing as that isn't going to happen, and the MCG hosts enough teams that invariably one side might be a tenant.... it at least serves as a ground with the most neutral aspect.

Richmond/Hawks/Pies etc at the MCG on GF day is far more neutral than any non Melbourne based side playing at their own ground.

And who really wants a WCE Richmond GF played at Adelaide Oval all for the purpose of complete neutrality. It would be absurd.

 

[bh90210fan]

Marvel has 5 tenants, wouldn't that have a higher probability of direct hga?

The mcg has 6 and every team plays regularly at marvel, not just Gills favourites

 

[bh90210fan]

I think you missed the point.

Swans at SCG less neutral than any MCG tenant at MCG.
GWS at Spotless
Cats at Kardinia
Lions at Gabba
WCE/Freo at Optus

etc etc

MCG is the home base of the game and is locked in for the GFs. Yes some people want higher ranked sides to get home games, but seeing as that isn't going to happen, and the MCG hosts enough teams that invariably one side might be a tenant.... it at least serves as a ground with the most neutral aspect.

Richmond/Hawks/Pies etc at the MCG on GF day is far more neutral than any non Melbourne based side playing at their own ground.

And who really wants a WCE Richmond GF played at Adelaide Oval all for the purpose of complete neutrality. It would be absurd.

I’d love a West Coast v Richmond gf at Adelaide Oval. It’d be a genuine neutral contest with a even crowd. I’d Rather a fair competition than just Whatever is in the best interests of Victorians

 

[romeohwho]

romeohwho bh90210fan care to offer a different, more neutral ground?

When I see these threads miner boy, I know it’s going to be swarming with Richmond supporters, and there’ll be heaps of hawkers and a smattering of others. Everytime.
I’d have thought that a Hawthorn, or a Richmond, playing an interstate team in a GF- well surely a fairer thing to do would be to play the match at a neutral venue. So against a West Coast, the match could be in Adelaide or Sydney Etc. makes sense to me if one is seeking neutrality rather than home ground advantage for MCG clubs.
Heck, you are even welcome to come down the highway and play such a match up at beautiful Kardinia Park.

 

[Yojimbo]

The mcg has 6 and every team plays regularly at marvel, not just Gills favourites

West Coast Eagles at Marvel (2000 to 2020 a heavy burden)

64 x Games, 28 x Wins, 1 x Draw, 35 x Losses.

Role Call Of Defeat:
Essendon: 11 x Games Lost
Collingwood: 5 x Games Lost
St Kilda: 6 x Games Lost
Western Bulldogs: 4 x Games Lost
Carlton: 3 x Games Lost
Richmond: 3 x Games Lost
North Melbourne: 1 x Game Lost
Melbourne: 1 x Game Lost
Hawthorn: 1 x Game Lost

An unjust list of teams lining up for a jet lagged team ripe for the picking due to the tyranny of distance.
This combined with their GMHBA record, it's an outrage. Luckily when travelling West the jet lag is no
where near as severe and career threatening.

 

[telsor]

Wrong.

Compelling argument.

If it wasn't for all the facts and logic supporting what I said, you would have convinced me.

 

[Inferno]

Completely missed the point once again, i'm all for you playing all your games down in Geelong, at no point in your long rambling response did you even address that. Just went on a rant about Richmond.

Once again?? That was the first time I responded to any points you made

And you brought up crowd figures, but now think your own post was purely you saying "i'm all for you playing all your games down in Geelong" and nothing more? What point are you even trying to make??

Most of your posts in this thread just seem to be you telling people they've "missed the point" or their "post makes no sense" sprinkled with some Bay quality trolling and abuse. Have you considered that maybe the problem is with you rather than being with everyone else?

Like in all seriousness - how the * did you become a mod if this is how you behave on the main board?

 

[Sterge]

Once again?? That was the first time I responded to any points you made

And you brought up crowd figures, but now think your own post was purely you saying "i'm all for you playing all your games down in Geelong" and nothing more? What point are you even trying to make??

Most of your posts in this thread just seem to be you telling people they've "missed the point" or their "post makes no sense" sprinkled with some Bay quality trolling and abuse. Have you considered that maybe the problem is with you rather than being with everyone else?

Like in all seriousness - how the fu** did you become a mod if this is how you behave on the main board?

No one else has had a problem though just you, I bought up the crowd figures to point out that Richmond Geelong crowds are fine when it is a Richmond home game so the crowd issue for Geelong home games isn't on us, and I stipulated in the post it wasn't to say hey we should play Geelong in Melbourne always because we shouldn't our supporters don't go to away games against Geelong even if they are at the G for whatever reason.

I've added plenty to the thread, you highlighted one post where I was taking the piss and spent the rest of the time mod bashing which since you apparently used to be a mod should know is really basic level stuff, attack the argument not the poster.

 

[Yojimbo]

West Coast Eagles at Marvel (2000 to 2020 a heavy burden)

64 x Games, 28 x Wins, 1 x Draw, 35 x Losses.

Do you know West Coast between (2000 to 2020) only had a paltry 45 x Games at the MCG for 18 x Wins and 27 x Losses
and they played in 19 x different venues around the country, I am starting to buy into this conspiracy theory a lot of those
years they only had one solitary game.

Wait the AFL must have made up for this with copious amounts of home games, they must know that home games are the
keys to the city for them.
Optus Stadium: 28 x Games for 22 x Wins, 6 x Losses.
Domain Stadium: 221 Games for 142 x Wins, 1 x Draw, 78 x Losses.
WACA Ground: 3 x Games for 3 x Wins.

They did have more blue periods than the great Geelong and no where near as much talent, but still managed two flags
from the year 2000, massive effort considering the enormous hurdles placed before them. At least their venues have a
kind of symmetrical shape to them.

 

[Sterge]

Do you know West Coast between (2000 to 2020) only had a paltry 45 x Games at the MCG for 18 x Wins and 27 x Losses
and they played in 19 x different venues around the country, I am starting to buy into this conspiracy theory a lot of those
years they only had one solitary game.

Wait the AFL must have made up for this with copious amounts of home games, they must know that home games are the
keys to the city for them.
Optus Stadium: 28 x Games for 22 x Wins, 6 x Losses.
Domain Stadium: 221 Games for 142 x Wins, 1 x Draw, 78 x Losses.
WACA Ground: 3 x Games for 3 x Wins.

They did have more blue periods than the great Geelong and no where near as much talent, but still managed two flags
from the year 2000, massive effort considering the enormous hurdles placed before them. At least their venues have a
kind of symmetrical shape to them.

West coasts mcg record since moving to optus is quite interesting and goes some way to confirming that grounds should be as close to mcg dimensions as possible if teams want to succeed come finals time.

 

[jsdsgn]

I will never understand the whole GMHBA stadium debate.

I understand Cats want games there, and they've been granted their wish. But it doesn't make sense for them to say that other Melbourne clubs are advantaged by playing at the MCG.

Collingwood, Richmond etc don't train on the MCG, but Geelong train at GMHBA. If anything, them playing there is an advantage to them. The ground is oddly shaped and allows them to adapt their style in a very foreign setting for other teams.

On the finals issue, not only is the capacity too limited to play finals, but Collingwood never played a final at Vic Park and Hawthorn never played a final at Glenferrie.

Its never going to stop, and I don't know why.