Autopsy AAMI Community Series, 2022: Essendon v St.Kilda

[puppy_dog7]

Being elite means you're not waiting until the last 5 games of the year to show something.

You do realise he was injured for the first half of the season and also missed a game being locked up in Perth?

 

[gringo2011]

King is the guy I hope takes the game by the scuff of the neck and rips it head off , then there is Marshall who was no game changer yesterday and that was with 20 plus disposals , but with more game time in the legs he is going to be our biggest trump card , Gresham again didn't play a huge amount of time in the middle but by the looks they are building him up slowly to the opener - but boy he showed he has the class to show he is a A grader this year , Hill --- looks like the penny dropped and we will get the version we wanted when we got him ---- Butler is on a one year contract so he will be hungry so he will be out to fix that ---- Crouch played only half a game yesterday but he is pivotal to our season and of course add Steele to that.
Howard doesn't get much love but boy he is top rated backman , Wilkie is not far behind , then throw in the class of Sinclair and Paton and you have one hell of a footy team and I havn't mentioned a few guys who can turn the game on its head like Membery and Higgins.

King, Gresham and Snags are the guys that I think still have elite potential.

 

[gringo2011]

bit of chicken and the egg about it

I think Birdy is right. Good sides generally have good players. If there is a pair of evenly matched players they tend towards the proven finals player though.

 

[jwikked]

You do realise he was injured for the first half of the season and also missed a game being locked up in Perth?

Sure, what was the excuse in 2020? He wasn't playing near as well as he was in 2019.

I'm not saying he's no good, I'm saying he's not elite.

 

[gringo2011]

Go back and look at Marshall’s last 5 games last year and tell me that’s not elite.

Curnow has showed absolutely nothing but flashes. He’s nowhere near considered elite. At least Marshall has the output to back it up.

Mason Wood is elite on 5 games. Marshall might be elite once he becomes a solo ruckman again but if a Carlton supporter was lauding one of theirs as elite without any real form line we'd have a laugh at them.

 

[puppy_dog7]

Mason Wood is elite on 5 games. Marshall might be elite once he becomes a solo ruckman again but if a Carlton supporter was lauding one of theirs as elite without any real form line we'd have a laugh at them.

Marshall has been a runner up best and fairest.
Mason Wood and Charlie Curnow haven’t even come close to that.
It’s not just potential, everyone can see Marshall is elite and his numbers when healthy back that up.

 

[Ducky Tie]

Marshall has been a runner up best and fairest.
Mason Wood and Charlie Curnow haven’t even come close to that.
It’s not just potential, everyone can see Marshall is elite and his numbers when healthy back that up.

Curnow has a third place finish to be fair.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I agree. Obviously there’s talent there but I still think he’s a long way off. Killed games that were pretty much dead rubbers. He showed that he can play at afl level but This year will be telling

Explain how on earth the Sydney and Fremantle games were dead rubbers for them.

 

[elltime000]

wow there are some serious demons on this page - if you cannot see how good rowan marshall

19

Rowan Marshall

Age

28

Ht

201cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.4

4star

K

8.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

CL

3.4

5star

HO

20.2

5star

D

12.9

3star

K

9.3

4star

HB

3.6

2star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

17.8

5star

D

10.6

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

7.8

5star

is and how important he is to us, you are literally deluded. Last year we were 8-5 with him in the side - one of those losses was to the cats where he went off at half time when it was 20 shots to 5 at half time (of course we were only a goal up....) Even last night, he didn't win all the hitouts but he outbodied Draper 5-6 times which resulted in clear free kicks (hence no hit out). If he plays 20 games last year, we make finals even tho we were absolutely useless for most of the year.

Love how saints supporters have players who they rate no matter what... Bytel, Sharman, Freeman, Spencer White

Spencer White

Age

29

Ht

196cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

6.0

1star

K

3.5

1star

HB

2.5

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

G

2.0

5star

No current season stats available

D

6.0

2star

K

3.5

2star

HB

2.5

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

G

2.0

5star

fit this category. Good teams have selection pressure and pick guys based on form (look at Melbourne, higher rated draft picks like weiterman not getting a game because lesser likes working harder/better form). Bytel is obviously nowhere near it if he isn't playing in either pre season game (when we have a squad of 26) so how can he be in the frame for R1??? Sharman had some decent games but you don't get a game because you had a few good games 6 months ago. Lets not delude ourselves, he kicked 4 goals in one of the most bruise free games of footy I've ever seen - Freo and the Saints literally had 35 players out between them and the players obviously wanted the season just to end (waiting for the "freo were playing for finals" comment, they had to win by a big margin and the dons had to lose to Collingwood who were 17th and were completely done..) He had an opportunity last week against carlton and he was very poor - showed he couldn't play as a second ruck (not his fault at all) so the only option is to play him permanently fwd. If Ryder doesn't play, we have to play a 2nd ruck that is at least competitive at the contest (which hayes is - agree very similar to blake). We probably won't go King Membury Hayes/Ryder Marshall Sharman because its just very top heavy up fwd. Could be a good sub option tbh.

I'd replace Clarke with NWM - the pies will blood a ton of youngsters too so not like he's gonna debut against seasoned vets - he's played SANFL so even tho he's slight framed, he's used to the big bodies - could easily slot in on a wing, provide a bitof X factor. No point going back to the well with Kent or Long. Melbourne brought Kozzie Picket in raw as and look how quickly he adapted to afl. He didn't set the world alight in his first year but why play a player who has been on our list for 6-7 years and shown very little when you've got a player so skilled just waiting in the wings...

 

[Minga]

We gotta stop using the AA team as a justification for what constitutes an elite player - its selection process doesn’t exactly have the most integrity. And if we are judging elite as the best 5 players in any given position then they couldn’t all fit into the team anyway.

If we play as a team, and we dominate as a team, we will win. Then for entertainments sake the media/fans can pick apart which players of that team are the elites, and the stars, but what really matters is the team. Ideally you’d have different players stepping up into the starry limelight every week, to make up the natural inconsistencies in sport. Some may do this more then others, and that’s what’ll make them leaders. But a leader is still beholden to the team, and vice versa.

Anyway, Jack Higgins is definitely capable of being that type of player. Oozes, X-factor, good overhead mark, a very creative, make something out of nothing type player. I think he’ll have a few dominant, BOG-esque games this year - he’s simply a likely type. Could definitely lift himself into the top echelon of small forwards. All the signs are there IMO, and he’s only a year older then King, so you’d think he’s only gonna get better.

TLDR: team of champions/leaders over a champion team + IMO Higgins is gonna go up a gear.

 

[gringo2011]

wow there are some serious demons on this page - if you cannot see how good rowan marshall is and how important he is to us, you are literally deluded. Last year we were 8-5 with him in the side - one of those losses was to the cats where he went off at half time when it was 20 shots to 5 at half time (of course we were only a goal up....) Even last night, he didn't win all the hitouts but he outbodied Draper 5-6 times which resulted in clear free kicks (hence no hit out). If he plays 20 games last year, we make finals even tho we were absolutely useless for most of the year.

Love how saints supporters have players who they rate no matter what... Bytel, Sharman, Freeman, Spencer White fit this category. Good teams have selection pressure and pick guys based on form (look at Melbourne, higher rated draft picks like weiterman not getting a game because lesser likes working harder/better form). Bytel is obviously nowhere near it if he isn't playing in either pre season game (when we have a squad of 26) so how can he be in the frame for R1??? Sharman had some decent games but you don't get a game because you had a few good games 6 months ago. Lets not delude ourselves, he kicked 4 goals in one of the most bruise free games of footy I've ever seen - Freo and the Saints literally had 35 players out between them and the players obviously wanted the season just to end (waiting for the "freo were playing for finals" comment, they had to win by a big margin and the dons had to lose to Collingwood who were 17th and were completely done..) He had an opportunity last week against carlton and he was very poor - showed he couldn't play as a second ruck (not his fault at all) so the only option is to play him permanently fwd. If Ryder doesn't play, we have to play a 2nd ruck that is at least competitive at the contest (which hayes is - agree very similar to blake). We probably won't go King Membury Hayes/Ryder Marshall Sharman because its just very top heavy up fwd. Could be a good sub option tbh.

I'd replace Clarke with NWM - the pies will blood a ton of youngsters too so not like he's gonna debut against seasoned vets - he's played SANFL so even tho he's slight framed, he's used to the big bodies - could easily slot in on a wing, provide a bitof X factor. No point going back to the well with Kent or Long. Melbourne brought Kozzie Picket in raw as and look how quickly he adapted to afl. He didn't set the world alight in his first year but why play a player who has been on our list for 6-7 years and shown very little when you've got a player so skilled just waiting in the wings...

Who said he's no good. He just isn't in the elite category yet. Steele is probably the only player we have that would fit the elite category. Elite is the best of the best, not your best players.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Meaningless game, I don't think anyone would disagree with that sentiment.

Overheard at the club.

"Rats what is our gameplan"?
" I thought we would just cruise around, dust off the cobwebs and just keep our players safe "
" b...but have you read that big footy Saints board since the Cartlon game..they are losing their s**t, especially that Gringo dude, i'm worried they are all going to run off and support some new Tasmanian team "
" what? but its only a practice game "
" I tell ya rat's , some of them were seriously losing it "
"OK, in that case , we go in hard, we lift the intensity to the max , ( no pun intended Kingy ), we need to look after our Bigfooty supporters "
" Good one Rat's , and by the way...if we are looking crappy half way through the season, they are going to come to Moorabbin with pitchforks and torches calling for your head "

 

[Jade Buddha]

Wood is on the wing.
Majority of the game when Hayes isn’t the second ruck he’s playing second/third tall. That’s Sharman’s position.
Again the same problem of playing a tryer over a more talented player because they are “more versatile”.

Bit of a dilemma. You’re right Sharman is a pure forward however Hayes is effectively playing Marshall’s role with Paddy out - forward/ruck. Marshall is playing ruck alone so If we don’t include Hayes we have no 2nd ruck. So who relieves Marshall?
Sharman can’t be considered for this as he’s way under size physically for that job. It’s also structural that we have a big body to hit packs forward for the crummers again not Sharmans go.
It was noticeable last night that our forward line is way better with a big bodied physical presence. This isn’t Max’s or Membreys game.

 

[gringo2011]

Overheard at the club.

"Rats what is our gameplan"?
" I thought we would just cruise around, dust off the cobwebs and just keep our players safe "
" b...but have you read that big footy Saints board since the Cartlon game..they are losing their sh*t, especially that Gringo dude, i'm worried they are all going to run off and support some new Tasmanian team "
" what? but its only a practice game "
" I tell ya rat's , some of them were seriously losing it "
"OK, in that case , we go in hard, we lift the intensity to the max , ( no pun intended Kingy ), we need to look after our Bigfooty supporters "
" Good one Rat's , and by the way...if we are looking crappy half way through the season, they are going to come to Moorabbin with pitchforks and torches calling for your head "

I'm liking the old campaigner a lot more now he got his priorities in order.

 

[XhazzafootyX]

Explain how on earth the Sydney and Fremantle games were dead rubbers for them.

Maybe not the Sydney one but the Fremantle game defs was. Fremantle players didn’t Show up. Our boys did but They certainly didn’t! It was a nothing game mate.

 

[Jade Buddha]

Most rucks are 200cm tall.

Hayes had 4 hit outs for the game, it's hardly worth having him over Sharman if that is going to be his output.

He'll be coming up against 200cm every week. Hes going to struggle in there.

Not sure Sharman and Wood are really fighting for the same spot considering Wood plays high half forward to wing.

Woods role is closer to Billings than Sharman. Sharman plays as a genuine marking key forward.

So who are you suggesting is our 2nd ruck?

 

[bird_man]

So who are you suggesting is our 2nd ruck?

Sharman is the most likely up the ground but King can take the contests inside 50.

Yes he is undersized but I can't justify a guy getting a game ahead of him because of 4 hit outs in 25 ruck contests. I'd prefer the guy who looks a genuine threat up forward as we can't just rely on King.

As I said though, I'd play both as I don't see us being too tall.

 

[bird_man]

Maybe not the Sydney one but the Fremantle game defs was. Fremantle players didn’t Show up. Our boys did but They certainly didn’t! It was a nothing game mate.

Freo could still make the 8 at the time if that game from memory

 

[bergholt]

Sharman is the most likely up the ground but King can take the contests inside 50.

Yes he is undersized but I can't justify a guy getting a game ahead of him because of 4 hit outs in 25 ruck contests. I'd prefer the guy who looks a genuine threat up forward as we can't just rely on King.

Yeah I was just thinking that. Second ruck options:

Sharman - can't ruck, potentially good forward
Hayes - not a great ruck, just ok forward
Campbell - decent ruck, not great forward

Feels like a raffle to me. I'd probably play Sharman the first couple of games and see if he can hold his spot, but none are exactly forcing themselves to be picked.

 

[MightySaint]

Here's my summary for Sharman: he passes the eye test in every single way. He is a natural footballer that knows where to run to get the ball, how to make space in the forward line and how to kick it through the big sticks.
Meaningful games or not towards the end of the season, I know what I saw.
I have no doubt his tank is not there yet. I also know that I will be very disappointed if a natural forward the defenders have to be wary of is not in the team.

 

[Mowman]

Yeah I was just thinking that. Second ruck options:

Sharman - can't ruck, potentially good forward
Hayes - not a great ruck, just ok forward
Campbell - decent ruck, not great forward

Feels like a raffle to me. I'd probably play Sharman the first couple of games and see if he can hold his spot, but none are exactly forcing themselves to be picked.

No raffle for me Sharman everyday of the week and starting 18

 

[D2D3]

No raffle for me Sharman everyday of the week and starting 18

Agreed, like Sharman is just the better footballer. Just play the better footballer and share the ruck around the ground.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

As I said though, I'd play both as I don't see us being too tall.

Well if we were to play Sharman when both Ryder and Marshall are available, as many/most on here would want to do, then surely we can play both Sharman and Hayes if Ryder (or Marshall) is unavailable.

 

[bird_man]

Well if we were to play Sharman when both Ryder and Marshall are available, as many/most on here would want to do, then surely we can play both Sharman and Hayes if Ryder (or Marshall) is unavailable.

King, Sharman, Membrey forward
Marshall ruck
Hayes can plug holes off the bench

King, Sharman and Membrey looked to work nicely when used together late last year when we beat the Swans and weren't far off rolling Geelong down there. All of them kicking at least 2 goals in each game.

 

[Parkysp]

I'd happily take 5 more home and away wins this season and then resume the 'elite player' discussion in October.
How will we get those 5 extra wins? Oh and how do we get the '6th' by not standing around Marvel Stadium as expensive witches hats?

Kick straight and have our very good players play more often than in in 2021 would be a nice start.

I feel with this group of players we could do what I suggest and yet not have any more of them rated as elite.