NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

[Wosh]

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Videos, statements etc in the OP here:

NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[SunshineBoy]

Unless you are referring to a different post, manangatang said he didn't trust the AFL. He didn't say why.

Do you trust the AFL? I dont

 

[SunshineBoy]

Yep , they want an independent investigation where all parties can be cross examined.

Sounds like they don't fear a fair enquiry !!

I hope the coaches and management are this willing.

AFL might fear a fair inquiry, look at what happened when CAS got hold of their last independent tribunal case

 

[SunshineBoy]

That smug son of a land owning pastoralist thought he would ride out of AFL Town in glory on his $4.5Billion white horse.

Now it looks like our last memory of him before he rides off into the gloom of Corporate World, will be an investigation taken out of his hands because the Indigenous complainants just have ZERO trust in this aristocrat son of a landowner.

And rightly so, given his personal record.

To be fair he is off to head the Qld Olympics alongside Anastasia Pallachook

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The whole ‘trying to save’ argument is frightening and is usually an excuse for I am in power and can do what I want to you. I am happy to share my story as it is an important part of how I got to where I am today. Please don't see this as a sob story, it is actually a story of personal empowerment. I am stolen generation. Despite being so young I still have vivid memories of being dragged from my mothers arms whilst she was pinned to the ground by two grown men screaming in terror. I can still smell the sweat of the man who grabbed me and I will never ever forget the look of desperation in my mothers eyes. I never saw my mother again (she took her own life). I found this out years later as I was one of the lucky ones with the resources to research. Of my brothers and sisters. One died in prison, the others I was never able to locate but was able to find out info about the torment they went through.
The thing I most vividly remember is having it hammered into me that to me that my mother didn’t care for me and hated me. I kept being told she neglected me as I didn’t have shoes. I should add I was from the NT river mobs where shoes were a burden. I never met my birth father, a 'white' worker on his way through the community but the few memories I have of my birth mother is nothing but love. I remember her teaching me how to track, how to spot crocs and when and where I could collect the hunted magpie geese safely on the rivers. She wasn't a bad person, I didn't need to be saved from her. I just had the wrong colour skin. Her screams and the look in her eye and the fact she couldn't bear to live without her kids told me how much she loved me. How much she loved us. A few weeks ago I buried my Mum (who had me in her care since I was little and loved me unconditionally) and there wasn't a day when she didn't tell me how much my birth mother loved me.

People in power will abuse and look for excuses. Trying to save is one of those.

Thank you for sharing your story. Heartbreaking.

I’ve had a lot of dealings with families from the stolen generation and the trauma and anger is carried by all.

 

[Festerz]

Good. Fine. That would be a court of law.

No.

It would be exactly as was stated in the article.

A review that is truly independent of the AFL with the scope to go deeper than the binary task of assigning blame.

 

[SunshineBoy]

How many of your relatives/ancestors were decapitated & killed for nothing. Can you provide a number of your relatives/ancestors that had their children & themselves just grabbed & taken from their family because of their colour...
That's two & there's many more..
Look forward to your response..!

You obviously haven’t read his story , your a moron

 

[SunshineBoy]

Thank you for sharing your story. Heartbreaking.

I’ve had a lot of dealings with families from the stolen generation and the trauma and anger is carried by all.

Sheeza69 needs to read SOTY post

 

[mcnulty]

No.

It would be exactly as was stated in the article.

A review that is truly independent of the AFL with the scope to go deeper than the binary task of assigning blame

Whats your problem with it going to the highest independent arbiter? You realise anyone aggrieved by the outcome can take it there anyway, right?

 

[SunshineBoy]

After reading the email I don’t see a way out, what would justify 3 grown men doing that? And the response to the email was gut wrenching.

The email confirms that at least one of the allegations certainly took place otherwise there would never have been a reply to it

 

[adelaide_girl]

Number 1 - I think you have misinterpreted my post. I was defending Aboriginal footballers as the poster was suggesting there being trouble to clubs.

Number 2 - Here is an overview of my relatives that were killed and the number of my relatives that were taken due to their colour. Records are sketchy but I will do my best.

• The Kimberly massacre. Records would show that family members on my Grandmothers side died here. They weren’t decapitated but they were thrown on a fire and burnt.
• I definitely lost family in the Walpiri massacre.
• My brothers and sisters were stolen. I actually have never been able to find out how many brothers and sisters I had. I have no living memory of any of them.
• One of them died in prison
• One was abused in care
• One suffered substance abuse
• I never saw any of them again
• My mother ( she took

-

Thank you for your contribution to this thread, I am awed at the empathy and the way you have so eloquently shared your very personal experiences.

Your posts are touching me in a way that is both unexpected and really opening my eyes to what was experienced by so many First Nations people, and leads me to be ashamed at my own ignorance.

I am ashamed I haven’t sort the stories to educate myself and the fact in previous times have dismissed and minimised the atrocities suffered by our First Nations people.

I am sorry for the way we have treated our First Nation community in years gone by, and I will use my learnings to educate my own children so they are not part of the next generations of systemic racism.

Again thank you


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[SunshineBoy]

Number 1 - I think you have misinterpreted my post. I was defending Aboriginal footballers as the poster was suggesting they bring trouble to clubs.

Number 2 - Here is an overview of my relatives that were killed and the number of my relatives that were taken due to their colour. Records are sketchy but I will do my best.

• The Kimberly massacre. Records would show that family members on my Grandmothers side died here. They weren’t decapitated but they were thrown on a fire and burnt.
• I definitely lost family in the Walpiri massacre.
• My brothers and sisters were stolen. I actually have never been able to find out how many brothers and sisters I had. I have no living memory of any of them.
• One of them died in prison
• One was abused in care
• One suffered substance abuse
• I never saw any of them again
• My mother ( she took her own life as her children were stolen). I never saw her again. I have very few memories of her.
• My cousins and uncles and aunties. Many of them went bush or into the desert to escape being taken. Never saw them again
• My identity. That was stolen. It is like the first 8 years of my life did not exist
• My memories were stolen. I have no one to tell me stories of when I was young
• Oh and I was stolen as well. Ripped out of my mothers arms.

Hope that helps and was worth waiting for my response.

We are with you brother

 

[tassietime]

The email confirms that at least one of the allegations certainly took place otherwise there would never have been a reply to it

No, the email (and the reply, if genuine) may confirm that at least one of the allegations was made contemporaneously. Nothing more, at this stage.

 

[gouki88]

That's rich this thread is a hivemind with no objectivity.
Everyone is tripping over themselves to be the biggest social justice warrior.
The moment the article came out you were all ''Wow yep racist scum, career over''
What ever happened to a fair process?

It really is fun seeing the world pass by people like yourself. You lot get so upset!

 

[gouki88]

Being compared to a wild animal is every man's hope's & dreams... Jimmy Krakouer always enjoyed his time playing against Collingwood in particular at Victoria Park.. Same could be said re Winmar & McAdam..
Collingwood were the pioneers of bringing indigenous players into the VFL/AFL all the way back in 2007.. Leon Davis was your first & I can barely name a handful that have played at Collingwood..
Whilst Essendon & St.Kilda have been recruiting indigenous players since the 70/80's..
It's all in the CULTURE & history of indigenous players at that club..
Hawthorn have really only drafted indigenous players since mid 2000's..
Mark Williams from memory was one of the first..
Kennett's attitude filters down to the Coaches... McGuire attitude filtered across to Bucks..

Is it racism...?
That's an individual's perception as it varies from one person to the next...
I have a feeling what we might learn is that Clarko, Fagan & Burt's argument was that "we were taken out of context", misinterpreted etc.. Though some of the allegations are specific, damning & extremely serious, not to say the least.
9.5 times out of ten these "Conspiracy theories" eventually become fact..ie Catholic Church/Priests Pedophilia

Next level bogan!!

 

[Dangerousfield]

Finally the AFL have a problem they won't be able to smooth over so they come out looking sweet.

The Newbold email and his response show this really did happen. There will be very high profile casualties, as there should.

AFL is a corrupt boys club but have met their match this time in the brave players who have finally spoken out.

Will be a fascinating but heart wrenching watch, will over shadow the 2023 season, no quick AFL fix this time.

 

[kingswood71]

Thank you for your contribution to this thread, I am awed at the empathy and the way you have so eloquently shared your very personal experiences.

Your posts are touching me in a way that is both unexpected and really opening my eyes to what was experienced by so many First Nations people, and leads me to be ashamed at my own ignorance.

I am ashamed I haven’t sort the stories to educate myself and the fact in previous times have dismissed and minimised the atrocities suffered by our First Nations people.

I am sorry for the way we have treated our First Nation community in years gone by, and I will use my learnings to educate my own children so they are not part of the next generations of systemic racism.

Again thank you


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

This is a lovely post

 

[Bluelegs]

No, the email (and the reply, if genuine) may confirm that at least one of the allegations was made contemporaneously. Nothing more, at this stage.

Proves Hawthorn were made aware of the allegations at the time and dismissed them.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

The whole ‘trying to save’ argument is frightening and is usually an excuse for I am in power and can do what I want to you. I am happy to share my story as it is an important part of how I got to where I am today. Please don't see this as a sob story, it is actually a story of personal empowerment. I am stolen generation. Despite being so young I still have vivid memories of being dragged from my mothers arms whilst she was pinned to the ground by two grown men screaming in terror. I can still smell the sweat of the man who grabbed me and I will never ever forget the look of desperation in my mothers eyes. I never saw my mother again (she took her own life). I found this out years later as I was one of the lucky ones with the resources to research. Of my brothers and sisters. One died in prison, the others I was never able to locate but was able to find out info about the torment they went through.
The thing I most vividly remember is having it hammered into me that to me that my mother didn’t care for me and hated me. I kept being told she neglected me as I didn’t have shoes. I should add I was from the NT river mobs where shoes were a burden. I never met my birth father, a 'white' worker on his way through the community but the few memories I have of my birth mother is nothing but love. I remember her teaching me how to track, how to spot crocs and when and where I could collect the hunted magpie geese safely on the rivers. She wasn't a bad person, I didn't need to be saved from her. I just had the wrong colour skin. Her screams and the look in her eye and the fact she couldn't bear to live without her kids told me how much she loved me. How much she loved us. A few weeks ago I buried my Mum (who had me in her care since I was little and loved me unconditionally) and there wasn't a day when she didn't tell me how much my birth mother loved me.

People in power will abuse and look for excuses. Trying to save is one of those.

Jesus man.

Thanks for sharing

Hope you are OK

 

[sr36]

Do you trust the AFL? I dont

Administratively, I trust them. I think pulling off the 2020 season was a fabulous feat of administration.

Ethically, I honestly don't know. I think they've become a corporate enterprise and I have a fair bit of distrust of the corporate world and it's power structures and the often hollow aspect to various stances they claim to take. However, I think the AFL admin have been ok in terms of indigenous issues - better than several of the clubs at least and better than the general community. I think they've been a positive in terms of social attitudinal change.

 

[SunshineBoy]

Proves Hawthorn were made aware of the allegations at the time and dismissed them.

It proves that something happened as well, otherwise the reply would have dismissed it

 

[Festerz]

Nothing was “exactly stated“ in the article. How is it constituted? Who selects it?

Whats your problem with it going to the highest independent arbiter? You realise anyone aggrieved by the outcome can take it there anyway, right?

Enough of the sea-lioning.

A court of law, criminal or civil, is not concerned with the search for truth.

They are an adversarial process concerned with making probability of guilt determinations. Where the quality (and cost) of legal representation is often the best indicator of the likely outcome.

A properly constituted Independent inquiry (possibly established under the Victorian Inquiries Act) is not aimed at allocating guilt but searching for the truth and recommending a path to resolution, reform and justice.

THIS is what the aggrieved families, other Indigenous players and the AFLPA are seeking.

 

[kingswood71]

Number 1 - I think you have misinterpreted my post. I was defending Aboriginal footballers as the poster was suggesting they bring trouble to clubs.

Number 2 - Here is an overview of my relatives that were killed and the number of my relatives that were taken due to their colour. Records are sketchy but I will do my best.

• The Kimberly massacre. Records would show that family members on my Grandmothers side died here. They weren’t decapitated but they were thrown on a fire and burnt.
• I definitely lost family in the Walpiri massacre.
• My brothers and sisters were stolen. I actually have never been able to find out how many brothers and sisters I had. I have no living memory of any of them.
• One of them died in prison
• One was abused in care
• One suffered substance abuse
• I never saw any of them again
• My mother ( she took her own life as her children were stolen). I never saw her again. I have very few memories of her.
• My cousins and uncles and aunties. Many of them went bush or into the desert to escape being taken. Never saw them again
• My identity. That was stolen. It is like the first 8 years of my life did not exist
• My memories were stolen. I have no one to tell me stories of when I was young
• Oh and I was stolen as well. Ripped out of my mothers arms.

Hope that helps and was worth waiting for my response.

i will be your brother if you need one
Stand tall and proud. From little things, big things grow.

 

[Ginnieboy]

Finally the AFL have a problem they won't be able to smooth over so they come out looking sweet.

The Newbold email and his response show this really did happen. There will be very high profile casualties, as there should.

AFL is a corrupt boys club but have met their match this time in the brave players who have finally spoken out.

Will be a fascinating but heart wrenching watch, will over shadow the 2023 season, no quick AFL fix this time.

The roosters are certainly coming home to roost this time, this is without doubt the biggest scandal in AFL/VFL history, big changes are coming, I can see the flood gates bursting open with similar stories league wide.

 

[mcnulty]

A court of law, criminal or civil, is not concerned with the search for truth

Wow. Just wow…

 

[gouki88]

Wow. Just wow…

Good response