Play Nice 2022 Non AFL Crowds/Ratings/Finance/Development thread

[Walshawk]

I feel like you've gotta be on the wind up. I wasn't talking about tv ratings, participation, AFLW, attendance as I already agree the AFL wins in that department. I was simply talking about which sport is more visible on free to air tv in its non heartlands.

I believe the NRL has overtaken AFL in this regard in the past year, as NRL gets put on the main 9 channel into Melbourne more than the nsw and Queensland teams get put onto the 7 main channel into Sydney and Brisbane. It's pretty simple really, hopefully it sinks in eventually.

Not sure if the wookie has stats on this, but I'd be pleasantly surprised if there were more AFL games on 7's main channel in Sydney and Brisbane (despite them having double the amount of local teams than the storm), than rugby league games on the 9 'main channel' into Melbourne during 2022. That's what I mean by fta tv presence, being on the 'main channel' so that people actually see your product and can't avoid knowing it exists.

Everyone else beside RED4VX knew what you meant - it was obvious. RED likes to read one post and argue against it without any consideration of the context of what was said before. Best to ignore like everyone else does.

 

[The_Wookie]

You are completely missing my point. It was all about main channel exposure, not ratings, attendance, whatever. It's the equivalent of your sport being on the back page of the paper, compared to 10 pages into the sports section, where only diehards will turn to seek it out.

I didnt miss the point. I know what you meant and I think your point is irrelevant and said as much as it deliberately excludes 95% of televised matches. You cant talk about television presence while excluding that many and expect anyone to take you seriously.

More and more sport is shown on secondary channels across many sports these days.

What is up for discussion, is the importance of main channel exposure for bringing in a new audience and new eyeballs to your sport.

Thats a completely different point to having a tv presence. If you are only worried about main channel exposure then you are missing 95% of the televisied audience over the season.

There is a reason games on the main channel rate at least over double what they do on the secondary channels.

And thats not true either. Theres on average about a 30-40% lift where a home team is involved and less where they arent.

It's about product awareness, which I don't think you can put a value on. It's why people in W.Sydney and the gold coast have zero idea or care about the suns and giants. You have to actively seek it out to find it, something a potential new fan couldn't be bothered doing, as it mustn't be important.

Thats got less to do with TV and more to do with idiotic AFL promotion and strategy over all.

but the NRL have done well being more in the face of non league fans in Melbourne over the past year, than the AFL have done by allowing their product to be stuck on secondary channels.

Except none of this is true and you've completely fabricated this. Not in amount of viewers, not in average viewers, not in the numbers on primary OR secondary channels, not in the number of matches shown on either medium.

 

[Bjo187]

Everyone else beside RED4VX knew what you meant - it was obvious. RED likes to read one post and argue against it without any consideration of the context of what was said before. Best to ignore like everyone else does.

One of the weirdest interactions I've had on a forum. I would call it trolling, but after going back and forth a few times, I realised he just isn't very smart and probably can't help it.

 

[Bjo187]

I didnt miss the point. I know what you meant and I think your point is irrelevant and said as much as it deliberately excludes 95% of televised matches. You cant talk about television presence while excluding that many and expect anyone to take you seriously.

Television presence includes visibility of product through advertising. The NRL advertising of junior participation, state of origin and games on ch9's main channel has gone up ten fold since they signed their new tv deal a year or two ago. Into Melbourne it's prime time too, during the news and big shows. The contra element must be massive.

More and more sport is shown on secondary channels across many sports these days.



Thats a completely different point to having a tv presence. If you are only worried about main channel exposure then you are missing 95% of the televisied audience over the season.



And thats not true either. Theres on average about a 30-40% lift where a home team is involved and less where they arent.

Fair enough. It proves the point though, that 40 percent must not be rusted on viewers that are watching because they stumbled across it, plus it was advertised on the main channel as an upcoming game which would have helped. That's a significant percentage of your target audience if you are trying to grow the game and even if you don't watch the game, a reminder of gws actually existing and in finals contention this year (as an example).

Thats got less to do with TV and more to do with idiotic AFL promotion and strategy over all.



Except none of this is true and you've completely fabricated this. Not in amount of viewers, not in average viewers, not in the numbers on primary OR secondary channels, not in the number of matches shown on either medium.

I don't have the statistics on that and you haven't provided them. I'll calculate it next season, there should be significantly more AFL games on 7 main than rugby league games on 9 main into the non traditional markets, considering there are twice as many AFL teams in Sydney as there are NRL teams in Melbourne. But would be happy with just say 20 percent more, definitely not less.

I'm also interested in if every single AFL final was shown on 7 main into Sydney (well I know the answer to that)? As pretty much every NRL final was shown on 9 main into Melbourne (I know, I live here). Even though storm weren't involved in 8 out of the 9 finals. That's an easier calculation to make.

 

[RedV3x]

You are completely missing my point.

No. We know your point but believe it is rather pointless.

Only already rusted on fans will flick over to a secondary channel

For me it's the opposite - i never watch the main channels.
I sit on ch70 and switch up to the HD channel plus my favourite shows.

It's why people in W.Sydney and the gold coast have zero idea or care about the suns and giants.

When you make absolutely bs statements like that nobody feels like treating you seriously.
and seriously, you need to take off your rose coloured glasses.
Frankly, if the Storm start losing then their popularity is going to plummet as well.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

You are completely missing my point. It was all about main channel exposure, not ratings, attendance, whatever. It's the equivalent of your sport being on the back page of the paper, compared to 10 pages into the sports section, where only diehards will turn to seek it out.

The AFL is already bigger than NRL in it's non heartland areas, that isn't up for discussion. What is up for discussion, is the importance of main channel exposure for bringing in a new audience and new eyeballs to your sport.

Only already rusted on fans will flick over to a secondary channel, but on the main channel it gets main channel advertising of your product (think nrl games being advertised during the block or married at first site) and everybody flicking that channel on in primetime to see what's on 'oh rugby league, might watch a bit of this it must be an important game it's on 9'. There is a reason games on the main channel rate at least over double what they do on the secondary channels.

It's about product awareness, which I don't think you can put a value on. It's why people in W.Sydney and the gold coast have zero idea or care about the suns and giants. You have to actively seek it out to find it, something a potential new fan couldn't be bothered doing, as it mustn't be important.

So yes the AFL rates higher and that's good, but the NRL have done well being more in the face of non league fans in Melbourne over the past year, than the AFL have done by allowing their product to be stuck on secondary channels. It's actually gone backwards since 10 had the rights back in the early 2000s, the AFL made huge gains in those periods due to main channel exposure. Anybody that doesn't think main channel brand exposure is important, especially for teams that are trying to grow a new supporter base (gc and gws) must have rocks in their heads.

I get what you're getting at but to be frank, in these days of digital TV I make no distinction between main and secondary channels. I just flick onto the guide and see what channel the thing I want to watch is on.

I guess there may be some prestige still attached to the main channel, but it certainly passes me by.

 

[Bjo187]

I get what you're getting at but to be frank, in these days of digital TV I make no distinction between main and secondary channels. I just flick onto the guide and see what channel the thing I want to watch is on.

I guess there may be some prestige still attached to the main channel, but it certainly passes me by.

Two examples:

- An add on 7 mate advertising GWS v Essendon coming up soon may potentially reach 10k people in Sydney. An add on ch9 main during a show like the block, advertising an upcoming storm game, will reach a few hundred thousand Melbourne viewers.

- To your example, you are looking for a particular sport so are a diehard already. The casual viewer doesn't do this, they judge importance by the shows being on the main channel, it's why they are valued and rate so much higher than secondary channels. People gravitate to the main channels naturally because the news is on there, which are usually the highest rating programs of the day.

 

[The_Wookie]

I don't have the statistics on that

so you just invented half of what you said out of thin air,

and you haven't provided them.

I may do so later when Im not at work

 

[madmug]

so you just invented half of what you said out of thin air,



I may do so later when Im not at work

I hope you have an understanding boss who's happy to pay you Sunday rates whilst you're doing vital BF work!!

 

[The_Wookie]

I hope you have an understanding boss who's happy to pay you Sunday rates whilst you're doing vital BF work!!

Well Im the site manager, and hq is in queensland....sooooo

 

[Bjo187]

so you just invented half of what you said out of thin air,



I may do so later when Im not at work

If you call thin air watching commercial tv in Melbourne all year and having two of my best mates living in Sydney and the Gold coast and asking them regularly what station the game is on, whilst later in the year checking the tv guide of the local Sydney market to see where the AFL has been relegated to, then yes I suppose.

I'll give you an estimation, at least 6 of the 9 NRL finals were on 9 main into Melbourne (despite storm playing 1 solitary final) and I'm willing to bet no more than 3 or 4 were played on 7 main into Sydney or Brisbane (despite the swans making the GF and Brisbane making the prelim).

 

[The_Wookie]

If you call thin air watching commercial tv in Melbourne all year and having two of my best mates living in Sydney and the Gold coast and asking them regularly what station the game is on, whilst later in the year checking the tv guide of the local Sydney market to see where the AFL has been relegated to, then yes I suppose.

yes I call that thin air - especially if is not borne out by evidence.

I'll give you an estimation, at least 6 of the 9 NRL finals were on 9 main into Melbourne (despite storm playing 1 solitary final) and I'm willing to bet no more than 3 or 4 were played on 7 main into Sydney or Brisbane (despite the swans making the GF and Brisbane making the prelim).

All of the NRL finals were on Nines main channel. They still rated less on average than the AFL did in Brisbane and Sydney. Does presence mean a damn thing if no one cares?

 

[Bjo187]

All of the NRL finals were on Nines main channel. They still rated less on average than the AFL did in Brisbane and Sydney. Does presence mean a damn thing if no one cares?

Bingo, thankyou. And if Sydney and Brisbane missed the finals, we would have had a grand total of zero AFL finals on 7 main into the Sydney and Brisbane markets (except the GF of course).

NRL finals 8
AFL finals 0

It makes a big difference, ratings are done off averages, a Melbourne viewer watching 9 news would have been propelled into the start of an NRL final, a Sydney viewer watching 7 as a casual observer, wouldn't even have the inclination that an AFL game is on. So that doesn't add to the ratings, but it's brand awareness and greater opportunity to watch, which is extremely important when trying to establish yourself in a foreign market.

Basically coverage of AFL in Sydney and Brisbane has gone backwards with secondary channels. Coverage of NRL has gone forwards in the past year or two with 9 promoting the game (it was near non existent in the past in Melbourne).

 

[The_Wookie]

It makes a big difference, ratings are done off averages,

Im aware its done off averages. Which is why this whole discussion is baffling because as a rule the AFL in Sydney and Brisbane ratings twice as well as the NRL in Melbourne. A fact I mentioned much earlier in the thread. They can watch all the news they like - they arent watching which means they are switching to something else on Melbourne tv.

And as far as Im concerned thats the winning argument. Brand awareness is more like brand ambivalence. People might have the advertising thrown at them, but it doesnt mean a thing if they dont care.

a Melbourne viewer watching 9 news would have been propelled into the start of an NRL final, a Sydney viewer watching 7 as a casual observer, wouldn't even have the inclination that an AFL game is on.

You know because 7 dont advertise the AFL at all on their main channels. Especially at finals time.

So that doesn't add to the ratings, but it's brand awareness and greater opportunity to watch, which is extremely important when trying to establish yourself in a foreign market.

Its irrelevant if people dont engage. And ratings demonstrate that in Melbourne, they really dont engage. And despite your presence thing, the AFL beat the NRL in the ratings when it came to finals - I want to stress this isnt a unique phemona - this happens every year without fail regardless of who is playing. The AFL in Sydney and Brisbane rates twice as well as the NRL in Melbourne.

Basically coverage of AFL in Sydney and Brisbane has gone backwards with secondary channels.

On FTA yes, but overall coverage and viewing in these areas has also altered with multichannels, Fox and streaming since the days of Ten. Its worth noting that the Lions FTA ratings arent far off what they were under Ten now. That seems more linked to their performance than anything else.

Coverage of NRL has gone forwards in the past year or two with 9 promoting the game (it was near non existent in the past in Melbourne).

That may be true - but its had no impact.

 

[Aucklander]

That may be true - but its had no impact.

This is very much it in a nutshell. Putting the game on tele while nice doesn't do anything for the game where it matters, at the grassroots which is clearly evident in playing numbers.

 

[The_Wookie]

This is very much it in a nutshell. Putting the game on tele while nice doesn't do anything for the game where it matters, at the grassroots which is clearly evident in playing numbers.

What may have an impact though is the Storms relationship beggining to take shape with the VRL and NRL Victoria and the Victorian schools. That will bear fruit at some point if it hasnt already.

Storm path strengthened for Victorian Players

Victoria’s elite male rugby league players will have the opportunity to play in Storm colours next season with the newly announced Melbourne Storm junior representative teams.

www.melbournestorm.com.au

Storm’s huge change ahead of new season

It may seem like just a name change, but the Melbourne Storm is confident a rebrand of its junior system will have long-lasting benefits.

www.perthnow.com.au

 

[Aucklander]

What may have an impact though is the Storms relationship beggining to take shape with the VRL and NRL Victoria and the Victorian schools. That will bear fruit at some point if it hasnt already.

Storm path strengthened for Victorian Players

Victoria’s elite male rugby league players will have the opportunity to play in Storm colours next season with the newly announced Melbourne Storm junior representative teams.

www.melbournestorm.com.au

Storm’s huge change ahead of new season

It may seem like just a name change, but the Melbourne Storm is confident a rebrand of its junior system will have long-lasting benefits.

www.perthnow.com.au

My son is a teacher and this is definitely changing at his school. Slowly, but changing.

 

[The_Wookie]

Code	Week	Day	Date	Time	Home	Away	Venue	Crowd	Capacity	%Capacity
NBL	6	Thu	3/11	1930	Illawarra	Adelaide	WIN Entertainment Centre	2,118	5,673	37.33%
NBL	6	Thu	3/11	1830	Perth	Tasmania	RAC Arena	9,805	14,500	67.62%
NBL	6	Fri	4/11	1830	Cairns	Melb United	Cairns Convention Centre	3,704	5,345	69.30%
NBL	6	Sat	5/11	1730	Tasmania	Brisbane	Mystatebank arena	4,231	4,800	88.15%
NBL	6	Sat	5/11	1930	Adelaide	Perth	Adelaide Entertainment Centre	9,071	10,000	90.71%
NBL	6	Sun	6/11	1600	NZ	Sydney	Spark Arena	4,484	8,000	56.05%
NBL	6	Sun	6/11	1600	Melbourne	SE Melbourne	John Cain Arena	10,300	10,300	100.00%
							Total	43,713	58,618	74.57%
							Average	6,245
							Season Total	269,067	419,557	64.13%
							Season Average	6,115
							Increase/Decrease on 2021/22	1.38%	6 rounds	(6,032 in 2021)
							Increase/Decrease on 2021/22	24.54%	44 matches	(4,910 in 2021)

 

[The_Wookie]

Code	Week	Day	Date	Time	Home	Away	Venue	Crowd	Capacity	%Capacity
ALM	5	Fri	4/11	1945	Melb Victory	Newcastle	Aami Park	13,052	30,050	43.43%
ALM	5	Sat	5/11	1700	Melb City	Perth	Aami Park	6,171	30,050	20.54%
ALM	5	Sat	5/11	1945	Western Sydney	Central Coast	Commbank Stadium	9,142	30,000	30.47%
ALM	5	Sun	6/11	1400	Brisbane	Sydney	Moreton Daily Stadium	5,068	11,500	44.07%
ALM	5	Sun	6/11	1500	Wellington	Macarthur	Sky Stadum	6,135	34,500	17.78%
ALM	5	Sun	6/11	1700	Western United	Adelaide	Aami Park	3,128	30,050	10.41%
							Total	42,696	166,150	25.70%
							Average	7,116
							Season Total	249,239	858,568	29.03%
							Season Average	8,594
							Total to R5, 2021-22	212,632	17.22%	increase
							Ave to R5, 2021-22	7,332	17.22%	increase

 

[manicmagpie]

Another incredible turn out by Indian fans at the G.

I wonder what the previous biggest crowd Zimbabwe had ever played in front of.

 

[The_Wookie]

2022-23 WNBL Season
Code	Week	Day	Date	Time	Home	Away	Venue	Crowd	Capacity	%Capacity
WNBL	1	Thu	2/11	1830	Perth	Melbourne	Bendat Basketball Centre	880	2,000	44.00%
WNBL	1	Fri	3/11	1830	Canberra	Bendigo	National Convention Centre	1,204	1,700	70.82%
WNBL	1	Sat	4/11	1900	Southside	Adelaide	State Basketball Centre	100	3,200	3.13%
WNBL	1	Sun	5/11	1400	Bendigo	Perth	Red Energy Arena	764	4,000	19.10%
WNBL	1	Sun	5/11	1500	Townsville	Canberra	Townsville Entertainment Centre	1,684	5,257	32.03%
							Total	4,632	16,157	28.67%
							Average	926

2022 Rugby League World Cup - Finals
Code	Round	Date	Day	Time	Home	Away	Venue	Attendance	Capacity	%Capacity
RLWC	QF	4/11	Fri	1930	Australia	Lebanon	John Smiths Stadium	8,206	24,121	34.02%
RLWC	QF	5/11	Sat	1430	England	PNG	DW Stadium	23,179	25,138	92.21%
RLWC	QF	5/11	Sat	1930	NZ	Fiji	MKM Stadium	7,080	25,400	27.87%
RLWC	QF	6/11	Sun	1430	Tonga	Samoa	Halliwell Jones Stadium	12,674	15,200	83.38%
							Quarter Finals Total	51,139	89,859	56.91%
							Average	12,785
							Mens Tournament Total	287,504	564,172	50.96%
							Average	10,268

 

[Kwality]

'Nine Entertainment has reportedly stumped up a record sum to extend its broadcast deal with Tennis Australia, with the network set to ink a $500m agreement with the sport’s governing body that will secure the rights to air the Australian Open until 2030.
The apparent deal, which was reported by Nine’s own newspapers on Sunday night, represents a 66 per cent price hike on the value of the current deal, which expires after the 2024 Open.

In 2018, Nine wrested the broadcast rights to the Australian Open away from Seven, which had covered the event for four decades, with a five-year deal worth $300m.'


'But the looming $100m-a-year deal, which would stretch out until 2030, would dwarf the 2018 contract.

One senior industry executive expressed astonishment at the reported figure of $500m over five years. “They have paid a fortune,” the senior media figure told The Australian.

Nine already holds the rights to broadcast the other three grand slam tennis championships, both on its broadcast channel and its streaming service, Stan.'

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/nine-entertainment-drops-a-fortune-on-australian-open-tennis-broadcast-deal/news-story/e43c5a32f1580b8d032ce4b3da281f08

 

[Kwality]

NEWS

SBS unveils its major sponsors for the FIFA World Cup 2022​

SBS unveils its major sponsors for the FIFA World Cup 2022

SBS has today named Hisense, Hyundai, McDonald’s, Kia, TAB, Qatar Tourism and Colonial First State as its major partners for the upcoming FIFA World Cup 2022.With less than 30 days till the kick-off of the World’s single biggest sporting event, Adam Sadler SBS’s director of media sales said the...

mumbrella.com.au

'SBS will broadcast all 64 matches live and free on television and live streaming via SBS On Demand. Many matches are at favourable times for Australian fans, with seven matches in the group stage set to kick off during prime time at 9pm (AEDT) and 20 matches to kick off at 6am (AEDT).

SBS’s coverage will begin with the Opening Ceremony followed by the first match between Qatar and Ecuador on November 21, while Australia’s first match is against France, with coverage starting from 5am (AEDT) on November 23 on both SBS and SBS On Demand.'

As a taxpayer shareholder in SBS the ratings will be of interest:

'SBS has today named Hisense, Hyundai, McDonald’s, Kia, TAB, Qatar Tourism and Colonial First State as its major partners for the upcoming FIFA World Cup 2022.

With less than 30 days till the kick-off of the World’s single biggest sporting event, Adam Sadler SBS’s director of media sales said the support from commercial partners behind SBS’s FIFA World Cup 2022 has been unprecedented.'

 

[jatz14]

'Nine Entertainment has reportedly stumped up a record sum to extend its broadcast deal with Tennis Australia, with the network set to ink a $500m agreement with the sport’s governing body that will secure the rights to air the Australian Open until 2030.
The apparent deal, which was reported by Nine’s own newspapers on Sunday night, represents a 66 per cent price hike on the value of the current deal, which expires after the 2024 Open.

In 2018, Nine wrested the broadcast rights to the Australian Open away from Seven, which had covered the event for four decades, with a five-year deal worth $300m.'


'But the looming $100m-a-year deal, which would stretch out until 2030, would dwarf the 2018 contract.

One senior industry executive expressed astonishment at the reported figure of $500m over five years. “They have paid a fortune,” the senior media figure told The Australian.

Nine already holds the rights to broadcast the other three grand slam tennis championships, both on its broadcast channel and its streaming service, Stan.'

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/nine-entertainment-drops-a-fortune-on-australian-open-tennis-broadcast-deal/news-story/e43c5a32f1580b8d032ce4b3da281f08

I wonder to what degree the value of sport these days is more to do with the consequences of not having it. Are TV networks paying beyond reasonable value because the consequences of a lack of sport outway the consequences of over paying for sport.

On the other hand, the value of a product is based on what people are willing to pay, irrespective of their reasons for paying, so whatever they pay, thats the fair market value.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

It’s time for Peter V’landys to decide: rugby league or racing?

An impasse between the NRL, clubs and players in negotiations over funding suggests it’s time for the ARLC chairman and Racing NSW CEO to choose a crown.

www.smh.com.au