How has Collingwood managed to be so successful since 2001 while Carlton and Essendon have not?

[Ambrosia]

Essendon obviously have made plenty of mistakes and take the majority of the blame for their lack of success. That being said people underestimate how much luck goes into success at footy clubs.

Things like; the timing/criteria of priority pick rules changing, father Son rule changes, free agency rule changes, timing of expansion side entry into the league and the strength of the draft crop when a side bottoms out has a huge impact on teams long term success.

That being said I'd say comparatively well run sides who didn't quite get over the hump for a premiership have more to complain about with those outside of control based factors compared with Essendon and Carlton who have just continually knee capped themselves with poor management over the last 20 or so years.

 

[Elixuh]

If we had 1 more we could have a 3 way dick measuring contest next year

I’m serious though. Carlton is on its knees and is remember the good old days of checks notes premierships won during WWI in 1914.

Living in La La land. Only premierships won after the formation of the AFL count anyway.

 

[Pistol Night]

I’m serious though. Carlton is on its knees and is remember the good old days of checks notes premierships won during WWI in 1914.

Living in La La land. Only premierships won after the formation of the AFL count anyway.

We'll take that. Then we can cut of 30 years from the 2 in 64 s**t. Sounds heaps better.


Yeah im not quite sure the whole "Weve got 16 flags, so have we, get them out then!" was trying to impress. If its one thing Bigfooty drills into us its that Carlton and Essendon have 16 flags

 

[Daka]

The Pies have only 1 premiership 2010, wouldn't say they have been overly successful since 2001 onwards.

However, they have been close a number of times.

I would say Carlton & Essendon have lost their way more than the Pies have been managed.

 

[WillHayward]

Pre season experts had Carlton 6th, Collingwood 9th and Port 10th.

AFL crystal ball: Fox Footy experts predict 2023 flag winner, wooden spoon, Brownlow and more

Ultimate crystal ball: Finalists to slide, star to ‘kick 100’ as 28 AFL experts predict season

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[Pistol Night]

Pre season experts had Carlton 6th, Collingwood 9th and Port 10th.

AFL crystal ball: Fox Footy experts predict 2023 flag winner, wooden spoon, Brownlow and more

Ultimate crystal ball: Finalists to slide, star to ‘kick 100’ as 28 AFL experts predict season

www.foxsports.com.au

Their crystal ball is ****ed most years

 

[WillHayward]

The Pies have only 1 premiership 2010, wouldn't say they have been overly successful since 2001 onwards.

However, they have been close a number of times.

I would say Carlton & Essendon have lost their way more than the Pies have been managed.

What's Collingwood overall win loss record in last 20 years?

Would be decent

 

[JyeDye]

Coterie groups with lots of cash and pull are one of the big issues at the Blues and Essendon.

Same as pretty much anywhere in life unfortunately

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Yeah im not quite sure the whole "Weve got 16 flags, so have we, get them out then!" was trying to impress. If its one thing Bigfooty drills into us its that Carlton and Essendon have 16 flags

It was a pathetic display, they both need to forget about their ancient cups and get serious in the 21st century.

 

[Pistol Night]

It was a pathetic display, they both need to forget about their ancient cups and get serious in the 21st century.

We should whip ours out against Gold Coast to show them how ya flex properly

 

[Corn Cobbers]

We should whip ours out against Gold Coast to show them how ya flex properly

Throw in the 79 night GF and we'll have 16 too

 

[Inspecta Gadget]

How many Adrian Dodoro threads do we need?

 

[Yoda_]

There is some s**t threads on big footy, this one is right up there with it’s premise

 

[ibd77]

How do you define success. Are flags no longer the mark?

I think finals appearances and wins should also be included to give an overall view. Flags are extremely important but are also very limiting to determine which clubs are on the right track for consistent success.

Geelong's run of finals appearances since 2007 is a good measuring stick. However there some question marks over that success with Dank's association with that club in the 2000's. Still waiting for that whistle blower to come out during the 2007 season about Geelong's supplement program.

 

[Pistol Night]

Carlton has no patience or loyalty and love to sack people too early

And yet JSOS is still on the list

 

[windyhill]

Things like; the timing/criteria of priority pick rules changing, father Son rule changes, free agency rule changes, timing of expansion side entry into the league and the strength of the draft crop when a side bottoms out has a huge impact on teams long term success.

spot on, take 2005, clubs that won five or fewer games were eligible for an extra priority pick, hello pendles, hello daisy. Tanking anyone ?

 

[PerthBoy86]

Carlton and Essendon moved to Docklands. The comp is too even to give up a home ground advantage. Since 2001 the 4 MCG teams have won 9 flags, the 5 Docklands teams have won 1, and that was the Dogs miracle run in finals.

Interesting point. Essendon and Carlton still get a few MCG home games and are pretty familiar with the ground, so not sure if it's a huge factor. Also not so long ago all VFL teams except Melbourne and Richmond I believe didn't have the G as their main home. It's interesting to also note since 2001 non Victorian teams have won 8 times (including 6 years in a row from 2001 to 2006).

 

[Frank Grimes]

While Collingwood has been successfull in parts since 2001, there have been many other clubs who have been more successful.
Hawthorn 4 flags
Geelong 4 flags
Richmond 3 flags
Brisbane 3 flags
West Coast 2 flags
Sydney 2 flags

 

[Elixuh]

While Collingwood has been successfull in parts since 2001, there have been many other clubs who have been more successful.
Hawthorn 4 flags
Geelong 4 flags
Richmond 3 flags
Brisbane 3 flags
West Coast 2 flags
Sydney 2 flags

Correct. These are the true powerhouse clubs of the afl.

Having a premiership cup circle jerk pregame is a self report that you are not in fact a powerhouse.

 

[JyeDye]

Correct. These are the true powerhouse clubs of the afl.

Having a premiership cup circle jerk pregame is a self report that you are not in fact a powerhouse.

I didn't see the pregame stuff, but I don't think there's anything wrong with celebrating the history of clubs. Its only an issue if those currently in charge, be it players or higher ups are influenced by it for current day decisions.

 

[Elixuh]

I didn't see the pregame stuff, but I don't think there's anything wrong with celebrating the history of clubs. Its only an issue if those currently in charge, be it players or higher ups are influenced by it for current day decisions.

From what you hear, both clubs are controlled (or have in the very recent past been controlled) by groups who are fixated on the past glories. Largely irrelevant, but if I were a Carlton member I would be cringing.

 

[Great8]

Simple. Don’t cheat and you too can lose a few GFs like us

Much better to be card carrying KKK members than drug cheats or salary cap dodgers.
Unfortunately our President’s haven’t been as good as Eddie at sweeping things under the carpet

 

[Pistol Night]

Much better to be card carrying KKK members than drug cheats or salary cap dodgers.
Unfortunately our President’s haven’t been as good as Eddie at sweeping things under the carpet

Yep you've really nailed it

 

[master bate]

While Collingwood has been successfull in parts since 2001, there have been many other clubs who have been more successful.
Hawthorn 4 flags
Geelong 4 flags
Richmond 3 flags
Brisbane 3 flags
West Coast 2 flags
Sydney 2 flags

The Pies were a kick away from being ahead of the Eagles on that list and I'd imagine on win percentage they'd be above Richmond, Brisbane, West Coast and not too far behind Sydney and even Hawthorn.

They've had 4 eras of contention (if you count last year) in that period, it's a pretty good run.

4 clubs have found themselves in freakish dynasty mode, of the rest the Pies are right up there.

 

[banzai]

Interesting point. Essendon and Carlton still get a few MCG home games and are pretty familiar with the ground, so not sure if it's a huge factor. Also not so long ago all VFL teams except Melbourne and Richmond I believe didn't have the G as their main home. It's interesting to also note since 2001 non Victorian teams have won 8 times (including 6 years in a row from 2001 to 2006).

They would be familiar with the ground. But teams like Collingwood and Richmond can just build a game style just suited to one ground. Thats harder to do if you play 6 or 7 home games at a smaller indoor venue. It just has to be a disadvantage and they obviously dont play finals at Marvel. The comp is too even, in Richmonds 3 flags we had to win our final match of the season just to finish top 4, there isnt much margain for error.

I get it for the smaller clubs that play at Marvel, but Essendon and Carlton are choosing to have this disadvantage.