No non-Vic team has defeated a Vic team in the Grand Final without list or salary cap concessions

[PenfoldsFan]

Well, put some stats up and show us why the mighty port adelaide power are so awesome in home finals against Vic sides.

Lets see how you dominate Vic clubs.

Ahh, see you're shifting the goal posts again to deflect from the truth.
I never said Port were awesome in finals against Vic sides, i said SA teams combined away from your home ground advantage and thats only fair because im combining all 10 of your teams in the equation and as it stands, that equation over 27 years is ..

SA-9
Vic-4

We also have a ratio of 1:1 against you in GF's in Victoria, so too do WA teams.
If you include the NRL homeland states its even worse for you with QLD teams at 3:0 and NSW at 1:3 for a total of 4:3 from 7
How many GF's have Victorian teams won interstate?

No wonder your Victorian governed game wants the status quo maintained..lol

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Very disappointing result vs West Coast but it would probably be this that was being referred to.

Fond memories, however, i actually prefer the last 11 minutes of the 2014 Prelim against Hawthorn at the G despite the narrow loss.
The Hawks had nothing and if not for a timely smother there would be no 3peat to talk of.

Im a huge Clarkson fan, but he was shitting himself in those final moments, nothing surer.

 

[RonSon]

Fond memories, however, i actually prefer the last 11 minutes of the 2014 Prelim against Hawthorn at the G despite the narrow loss.
The Hawks had nothing and if not for a timely smother there would be no 3peat to talk of.

Im a huge Clarkson fan, but he was shitting himself in those final moments, nothing surer.

Yeah I was there.

 

[HTT]

Actually, Richmond tend to win flags within a couple of years of eachother more than they do in isolation:

- 1920, 1921
- 1932, 1934
- 1943
- 1967, 1969
- 1973, 1974
- 1980
- 2017

So, "being Richmond" would be winning another one within a couple of years after 2017 rather than going on another drought for decades.

The pattern is clearly a couple of flags, short drop, a couple of flags, short drop, single flag, drought. If we were to be 'Richmond', we'll win another 4 flags over the next decade or two. I'm happy with that.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Yeah I was there.

I was up north at Mambray creek camping with the family but we snuck into Pt Germain to watch it in the pub.
Left at 3 qtr time as we thought it was all done and dusted but tuned in on MMM as we drove to Port Pirie for Pizza.
By the time we got to Pirie there was a frenzy in the car as the seconds ticked by and the tension mounted.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Ahh, see you're shifting the goal posts again to deflect from the truth.
I never said Port were awesome in finals against Vic sides, i said SA teams combined away from your home ground advantage and thats only fair because im combining all 10 of your teams in the equation and as it stands, that equation over 27 years is ..

SA-9
Vic-4

We also have a ratio of 1:1 against you in GF's in Victoria, so too do WA teams.
If you include the NRL homeland states its even worse for you with QLD teams at 3:0 and NSW at 1:3 for a total of 4:3 from 7
How many GF's have Victorian teams won interstate?

No wonder your Victorian governed game wants the status quo maintained..lol

You might want to go look at who the people are who govern the AFL.

And i couldn't give a rats about "other" interstate sides, as my 1st post stated, i am bemused that a port fan would post this, when Vic sides have the wood over them.
But ok, lets just go with the flow, other interstate sides go pretty good against Vics on their home soil, port are just crap.

 

[Lsta062]

The pattern is clearly a couple of flags, short drop, a couple of flags, short drop, single flag, drought. If we were to be 'Richmond', we'll win another 4 flags over the next decade or two. I'm happy with that.

That is the pattern, and I would be happy with that too

 

[PenfoldsFan]

You might want to go look at who the people are who govern the AFL.

And i couldn't give a rats about "other" interstate sides, as my 1st post stated, i am bemused that a port fan would post this, when Vic sides have the wood over them.
But ok, lets just go with the flow, other interstate sides go pretty good against Vics on their home soil, port are just crap.

Actually you're wrong again, of the 4 finals Victorian clubs have played against Port in SA you've only won 2.
Hawthorn by 3 points in 01 and Collingwood by 13pts in 02.
So you've beaten us as many times as you've beaten the Crows.

Hardly having the wood over us is it, unless youre factoring in your obvious home ground advantages which translate to the GF also.

And lets not forget who went crying to the AFL when you couldn't win one from 3 attempts against interstaters between 01 and 03 and the lockout of your own event between 04 and 06.
Who was running the game when the inquest was held into you mob getting flogged at your own game..lol

10 clubs, 400 players, bugger all travel AND a home state GF.

 

[blue harvest]

Make no mistake its a good thing

But to see if your game plan works you have to play the ground against a team that is good - and fine tune it.

The web fell apart at the g vs hawthorn.

How do you test that when the games you should be playing at the g are played in tasmania?

Launceston has very similar dimensions as the G.

 

[00Stinger]

This might sound crazy. But maybe, just maybe the Vic teams were better than the interstate teams?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[LoungeLizard]

Actually you're wrong again, of the 4 finals Victorian clubs have played against Port in SA you've only won 2.
Hawthorn by 3 points in 01 and Collingwood by 13pts in 02.
So you've beaten us as many times as you've beaten the Crows.

Hardly having the wood over us is it, unless youre factoring in your obvious home ground advantages which translate to the GF also.

And lets not forget who went crying to the AFL when you couldn't win one from 3 attempts against interstaters between 01 and 03 and the lockout of your own event between 04 and 06.
Who was running the game when the inquest was held into you mob getting flogged at your own game..lol

10 clubs, 400 players, bugger all travel AND a home state GF.

That's the thing though isn't it, we need to share those 400 players between 10 clubs to give you a chance.

Imagine if we only had 2 Vic clubs, your pitiful club would be lucky to win a GF once every 100 years.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

That's the thing though isn't it, we need to share those 400 players between 10 clubs to give you a chance.

Imagine if we only had 2 Vic clubs, your pitiful club would be lucky to win a GF once every 100 years.

Nope, wrong again, it would simply mean that those 320 spare players, with dreams of playing in the AFL, would still sign up to the draft and the best would be shared amongst the other 8 clubs, weeding out our lesser talents and making us stronger infact.

Dont be angry about it mate, as a Victorian, you've got a better chance of lobbying the AFL for a chance of playing more finals interstate including GF's, the more you play, the better you get and one day you might even experience the thrill of beating an interstste team in a GF on their turf like us interststers have against you mob 8 times in 15 attempts.

But, like i said earlier, its a shame that you wont get that chance for 20 years under the current agreement.

 

[Catters 070911]

Actually, Richmond tend to win flags within a couple of years of eachother more than they do in isolation:

- 1920, 1921
- 1932, 1934
- 1943
- 1967, 1969
- 1973, 1974
- 1980
- 2017

So, "being Richmond" would be winning another one within a couple of years after 2017 rather than going on another drought for decades.

You're right. You'll probably win heaps more flags in the last few years.

Tell you what. Why not just give your players the preseason off, show up next year, with the same gameplan? I mean, the way a lot of you Richmond supporters speak lately, you simply have to show up and win. It's not like you think any other team can actually beat you.

The amount of disrespect Richmond has given the rest of the AFL sides this year is a disgrace. Never has a team who has achieved so little in the last thirty years been so cocky and arrogant because they fluked a flag one year.

 

[Fyfster]

Unfortunately you guys, and all interstate teams don't get enough games at the MCG, the AFL shoudl really ensure there is at least 2 games played there through the AFL season.

Have you ever thought about this , The many years that the Eagles have been a middle of the road side who only made the finals because of their home ground advantage , And before you start slinging s**t at Freo , I have not been making these claims of a un level playing field You have !! for the record West coast had an unfair advantage over Freo , because although we played at Subi your training headquarters were there , We trained at Fremantle oval. The most outlandish comment i have heard from a West coast supporter is this , They had just beaten us in a derby and he stated that it was more special because it was their away game , My reply was WTF you train there all week and it is a away game ,I do understand the logic though they are so pathetic away from Subi/Domain. They hang on to every one that is classed as away

 

[HTT]

Nope, wrong again, it would simply mean that those 320 spare players, with dreams of playing in the AFL, would still sign up to the draft and the best would be shared amongst the other 8 clubs, weeding out our lesser talents and making us stronger infact.

Dont be angry about it mate, as a Victorian, you've got a better chance of lobbying the AFL for a chance of playing more finals interstate including GF's, the more you play, the better you get and one day you might even experience the thrill of beating an interstste team in a GF on their turf like us interststers have against you mob 8 times in 15 attempts.

But, like i said earlier, its a shame that you wont get that chance for 20 years under the current agreement.

What happens when players want to go home when they become FAs? Split among 10 clubs as opposed to 2. There's more talent coming out of Victoria so it works pretty fairly but drop that to 2 and the 2 clubs left will have 5 times the ability to attract those players as there 10 do now

 

[Lsta062]

You're right. You'll probably win heaps more flags in the last few years.

Tell you what. Why not just give your players the preseason off, show up next year, with the same gameplan? I mean, the way a lot of you Richmond supporters speak lately, you simply have to show up and win. It's not like you think any other team can actually beat you.

The amount of disrespect Richmond has given the rest of the AFL sides this year is a disgrace. Never has a team who has achieved so little in the last thirty years been so cocky and arrogant because they fluked a flag one year.

For one, I just commented on the trend of "being Richmond", and that is winning flags more than one time in close succession. Didn't say that it'll happen though.

Secondly, are you surprised that this happened after Richmond has been the centre of jokes for so many years in the AFL? Yes, Richmond supporters have probably been the most obnoxious after winning a flag in my time on bigfooty, but you know what? If opposition supporters can't handle what is dished out during Richmond success, then don't show arrogance when Richmond is going through a lean period. You are acting like opposition supporters have been so nice towards Richmond supporters before this flag.

 

[Tony Harrison]

Stop being so disrespectful, Richmond fans. Disgusting.

 

[kranky al]

That's the thing though isn't it, we need to share those 400 players between 10 clubs to give you a chance.

Imagine if we only had 2 Vic clubs, your pitiful club would be lucky to win a GF once every 100 years.

State of origin suggested otherwise.

Look at the ashes - england are triple the size of us.

Yet we win more often than not.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

What happens when players want to go home when they become FAs? Split among 10 clubs as opposed to 2. There's more talent coming out of Victoria so it works pretty fairly but drop that to 2 and the 2 clubs left will have 5 times the ability to attract those players as there 10 do now

Thats fine but what would you do with your current lists, chop them every year to top up with FA's?
The spare 320 players currently occupying the remaining 8 Victorian clubs would be happy to play anywhere if there were't as many Victorian clubs left to pick them up.
You could still only have a list of 40 players and within the same salary cap, if anything it would lessen the incentive to persue FA as you would rather nurture a current list than continually change the team.
As it is now you have 5x the ability to draw FA players back to Victoria than SA clubs as lets say 20 players a year can easily be absorbed by 10 clubs, whereas losing 3 or 4 per year from SA clubs is detrimental to their success.
Would Jake Lever have left Adelaide if there was no Melbourne to pay top dollar for him, remembering that with only 2 clubs in Victoria they would already have a better list from a bigger pool of available players and probably not need him.
Every week 60 back line players run out for victorian clubs, are you saying there arent 12 amongst them that aren't as good or better than Lever, if that were the case, all 10 clubs would have been fighting to pick him up.

 

[Final Siren]

Haven't read the previous 25 pages of this thread, but 10 years ago, people were having the exact same debate, only the Vics were the ones frothing at the mouth:

Exhibit A.

Demetriou: Victorian clubs need help
Jon Ralph and Kelvin Healey, Sunday Herald Sun
May 27, 2007 12:00am

VICTORIAN football is seriously sick and in need of assistance, AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou admitted yesterday.

The league boss revealed he had ordered an investigation into why Victorian clubs were being dominated by their interstate rivals.

The review, to be completed by September, was ordered after the league finally conceded the lack of recent Victorian premierships was not a temporary trend.

"I think we wanted to believe that it is a cycle, but history is now starting to go against that belief," Mr Demetriou said. "We are pretty sure that it is more than cyclical."

Victoria has had a flag drought since Essendon's triumph in 2000 and has not had a grand finalist since Collingwood in 2003.

Eight premierships have been won by interstate clubs in the past decade and only two by Victorian teams.

Mr Demetriou said the league executive had been examining the issue for several months.

"When you get a season where two Victorian clubs, in Melbourne and Richmond, are 0-8 after eight games, I can't remember that happening. That says something," he said.

"Whatever way you cut it or look at it, it's not great."

The admission came eight months after football great Ron Barassi called for the review in the Sunday Herald Sun.

Victorian football identities backed the investigation yesterday.

Mr Demetriou said the AFL was serious in its efforts to help Victorian clubs bounce back up the ladder.

The review is investigating a series of issues, including the level of resourcing in recruitment, revenue to clubs, boards and governance, facilities, the second-tier competition and the TAC Cup competition.

"There is a whole range of things we need to look at and analyse to see what we can do to make sure we address this issue," Mr Demetriou said.

"You hope that in our system the salary cap and draft are the equalisers, but eight of our last 11 premiers have been non-Victorian, the last three Grand Finals have been non-Victorian.

"It is great for the national game, but there are clubs in this town, the Western Bulldogs who haven't won a premiership for 50 years, Geelong and St Kilda 40 years, Richmond nearly 30 years and there is something going on in Victorian football that is not just cyclical."

He conceded that while football support was still strong in the Victorian heartland, the AFL could not guarantee that would be the case in years to come if Melbourne teams did not start contesting premierships again.

Barassi, an ardent supporter of the national competition, said in September that a review was necessary, after the top four sides in last year's final series were all interstate.

"I think we should look at it to see if there's a reason that means if you are not in Victoria you have got a better chance," Barassi said at the time.

"If there is a reason, we should correct it."

Bulldogs hero Doug Hawkins applauded Mr Demetriou's intervention yesterday, saying interstate clubs were "miles" in front of Victorian sides.

"I think the boss (Mr Demetriou) is probably on the money," Hawkins said.

"At the moment Victoria is only making up the numbers."

Geelong's last premiership coach, Bob Davis, also threw his support behind the AFL's investigation.

"We need a very good look at it, it is necessary that Victorian teams pick themselves up a bit," he said.

"We need at least four of our teams in the top eight."

Triple Brownlow medallist Bob Skilton predicted Victorian clubs would bounce back on their own, but also supported the review.

"They have got to look at everything and if there is a particular reason and it can be fixed, well, why not?" he said.

"(But) I can't work out where the imbalance is."

But South Australian football figurehead Graham Cornes criticised the process and said Victorian clubs deserved no advantage.

"The reason the non-Victorian clubs are doing better than the Victorian clubs is that they are run better and they are coached better and have maximised their resources," he said.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...k=4c9449207799a7550515523a36a4bcf8-1513815605

 

[Papa G]

Haven't read the previous 25 pages of this thread, but 10 years ago, people were having the exact same debate, only the Vics were the ones frothing at the mouth:

Exhibit A.

Demetriou: Victorian clubs need help
Jon Ralph and Kelvin Healey, Sunday Herald Sun
May 27, 2007 12:00am

VICTORIAN football is seriously sick and in need of assistance, AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou admitted yesterday.

The league boss revealed he had ordered an investigation into why Victorian clubs were being dominated by their interstate rivals.

The review, to be completed by September, was ordered after the league finally conceded the lack of recent Victorian premierships was not a temporary trend.

"I think we wanted to believe that it is a cycle, but history is now starting to go against that belief," Mr Demetriou said. "We are pretty sure that it is more than cyclical."

Victoria has had a flag drought since Essendon's triumph in 2000 and has not had a grand finalist since Collingwood in 2003.

Eight premierships have been won by interstate clubs in the past decade and only two by Victorian teams.

Mr Demetriou said the league executive had been examining the issue for several months.

"When you get a season where two Victorian clubs, in Melbourne and Richmond, are 0-8 after eight games, I can't remember that happening. That says something," he said.

"Whatever way you cut it or look at it, it's not great."

The admission came eight months after football great Ron Barassi called for the review in the Sunday Herald Sun.

Victorian football identities backed the investigation yesterday.

Mr Demetriou said the AFL was serious in its efforts to help Victorian clubs bounce back up the ladder.

The review is investigating a series of issues, including the level of resourcing in recruitment, revenue to clubs, boards and governance, facilities, the second-tier competition and the TAC Cup competition.

"There is a whole range of things we need to look at and analyse to see what we can do to make sure we address this issue," Mr Demetriou said.

"You hope that in our system the salary cap and draft are the equalisers, but eight of our last 11 premiers have been non-Victorian, the last three Grand Finals have been non-Victorian.

"It is great for the national game, but there are clubs in this town, the Western Bulldogs who haven't won a premiership for 50 years, Geelong and St Kilda 40 years, Richmond nearly 30 years and there is something going on in Victorian football that is not just cyclical."

He conceded that while football support was still strong in the Victorian heartland, the AFL could not guarantee that would be the case in years to come if Melbourne teams did not start contesting premierships again.

Barassi, an ardent supporter of the national competition, said in September that a review was necessary, after the top four sides in last year's final series were all interstate.

"I think we should look at it to see if there's a reason that means if you are not in Victoria you have got a better chance," Barassi said at the time.

"If there is a reason, we should correct it."

Bulldogs hero Doug Hawkins applauded Mr Demetriou's intervention yesterday, saying interstate clubs were "miles" in front of Victorian sides.

"I think the boss (Mr Demetriou) is probably on the money," Hawkins said.

"At the moment Victoria is only making up the numbers."

Geelong's last premiership coach, Bob Davis, also threw his support behind the AFL's investigation.

"We need a very good look at it, it is necessary that Victorian teams pick themselves up a bit," he said.

"We need at least four of our teams in the top eight."

Triple Brownlow medallist Bob Skilton predicted Victorian clubs would bounce back on their own, but also supported the review.

"They have got to look at everything and if there is a particular reason and it can be fixed, well, why not?" he said.

"(But) I can't work out where the imbalance is."

But South Australian football figurehead Graham Cornes criticised the process and said Victorian clubs deserved no advantage.

"The reason the non-Victorian clubs are doing better than the Victorian clubs is that they are run better and they are coached better and have maximised their resources," he said.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...k=4c9449207799a7550515523a36a4bcf8-1513815605

So is it cyclical, or were measures put in place from this review which tilted things back in Victorian clubs favour?
Having the Grand Final in your home town/state at least, home ground as an added bonus for some is an advantage. I can't believe people are arguing that it is not. It is illogical to argue otherwise. That is inbuilt and it ain't changing any time soon, but are there other factors at play? It is an interesting topic and one that deserves better analysis than 90% of the drivel written in this thread.

 

[blue harvest]

Lol Andy D and Co were wrong. Turns out it was a temporary trend.
Graham Cornes was right, the other clubs/teams were just better.

The recent trend is skewed because we have had 2 great teams in the Cats and Hawks, who just happened to be from Victoria.

 

[Papa G]

Lol Andy D and Co were wrong. Turns out it was a temporary trend.
Graham Cornes was right, the other clubs/teams were just better.

The recent trend is skewed because we have had 2 great teams in the Cats and Hawks, who just happened to be from Victoria.

#freekickhawthorn wasn't an AFL directive?

Also, Graham Cornes is never right.

 

[HTT]

Thats fine but what would you do with your current lists, chop them every year to top up with FA's?
The spare 320 players currently occupying the remaining 8 Victorian clubs would be happy to play anywhere if there were't as many Victorian clubs left to pick them up.
You could still only have a list of 40 players and within the same salary cap, if anything it would lessen the incentive to persue FA as you would rather nurture a current list than continually change the team.
As it is now you have 5x the ability to draw FA players back to Victoria than SA clubs as lets say 20 players a year can easily be absorbed by 10 clubs, whereas losing 3 or 4 per year from SA clubs is detrimental to their success.
Would Jake Lever have left Adelaide if there was no Melbourne to pay top dollar for him, remembering that with only 2 clubs in Victoria they would already have a better list from a bigger pool of available players and probably not need him.
Every week 60 back line players run out for victorian clubs, are you saying there arent 12 amongst them that aren't as good or better than Lever, if that were the case, all 10 clubs would have been fighting to pick him up.

Lets take a real world example

Look at some players who've wanted to move to Victoria recently
Dangerfield
Prestia
Treloar
Schache
Lever

Thats 5 players that 10 clubs will have looked at. If they decide they're interested they compete with whichever of the other 9 clubs are also interested.
In the end, each of these 5 players ended at 5 different clubs. If there were two Victorian clubs, they could sort through these players, and decide what they need and go after those players. They are less likely to have competition in this regard and be able to pick players up cheaper.
Imagine if it were the Bulldogs and Geelong left. Geelong could pick up Dangerfield like they did, then decide they need an extra running defender and they can get Lever for a reasonable price, whatever compo they got for Motlop (let's face it Ablett was getting there regardless. The bulldogs can pick up Treloar, maybe Prestia, and then don't even go for Schache because they decide their midfield will be good enough to overcome a lack of key targets.

I know I might not be making sense. It's like an auction. The price goes up until there's less bidders. If there's less bidders to start with, it's likely the final price will be lower.

It's generally equalised across the league, obviously less players want to go to SA or WA so it's a similar ratio of supply to demand. And it doesn't mean that having less Victorian teams is a bad thing, but I think it's something that I feel doesn't get considered enough and if it did get considered, we could find a solution which would make decreasing the amount of Victorian clubs more viable.

 

[bh90210fan]

So is it cyclical, or were measures put in place from this review which tilted things back in Victorian clubs favour?
Having the Grand Final in your home town/state at least, home ground as an added bonus for some is an advantage. I can't believe people are arguing that it is not. It is illogical to argue otherwise. That is inbuilt and it ain't changing any time soon, but are there other factors at play? It is an interesting topic and one that deserves better analysis than 90% of the drivel written in this thread.

Really we should have had a interstate premier in 2015 and 2016 as both Freo and gws lost home prelims against Hawthorn and the bulldogs. So interstate sides get a fair crack at making a grand final

The only bias that exists is in scheduling games to maximise profits where the bigger Melbourne based clubs are looked after and the smaller Melbourne based clubs have an uphill battle to win a flag

It’s $$$ first and the bigger vic clubs are the winners