Are Jonas or Cassisi representative of our past captains?

[EskimoPAFC]

Ugh that 2019 line still makes me feel physically ill. I can't even read the rest after seeing it and being reminded of what happened that year. Such an absolutely disgusting disgrace to the club that it was allowed to happen.

 

[Burningleviathan]

I think there is a difference between great player and great captain. For example, Wangas was a great player, not really a great Captain.

Following Primus and Tredders was a tough ask as they were great at both. Cassisi did the best he could in the circumstances he was in, as mentioned by others, and, without knowing the locker room, what felt like the best option.

 

[tribey]

I think there is a difference between great player and great captain. For example, Wangas was a great player, not really a great Captain.

Following Primus and Tredders was a tough ask as they were great at both. Cassisi did the best he could in the circumstances he was in, as mentioned by others, and, without knowing the locker room, what felt like the best option.

I didn’t realise it was so early in proceedings but I had very very good mail leading to this post back in the day (second-hand via a board member).

Whatever the exact motivation was, it was essentially a directive from on high counter to Choco’s well-known wishes to appoint Shaun captain, mayor and Prime Minister.

 

[StrappingTape]

Cassisi played with his head caved in, he was Port Adelaide through and through and a good leader, he just was when we were running on fumes.

 

[tribey]

Cassisi played with his head caved in, he was Port Adelaide through and through and a good leader, he just was when we were running on fumes.

If he didn’t crack his leg in 2011, was clearly never the same after, his hard-nosed 20 touches/8 tackles probably cancels out Will ****ing Langford in a certain Prelim final.

 

[1954]

Jonas was serviceable through to 2020, but he's been s**t since then, worse year on year. He should have clearly been removed as Captain end of 2021, but of course that'd reflect on Ken, so 'Wooahh, no siree, not at the Ken Hinkley Football Club!'.

As noted I think he was serviceable, but I think his making the AA squad I think is a bit deceptive. The AA squad (rather than just AA team) serves a few purposes. Obviously to try and generate interest (money) in 'Will my teams player make it?'. One of the unsaid reasons, IMO, though is it exists as much to reward teams as players. E.g. Port has generally had an (on-paper) decent defense, if you just look at points conceded (and ignore everything else). As it's been from overloading it and dragging it into a slugfest often, no players have generally stood out, but hey it's conceded little. So the AA squad (as opposed to team), allows them to pick a Port defender to go there as the 'here you go Port fans', without him ever under real consideration for a spot. Other teams / positions / players have similarly made the squads, rather than teams, since the expanded list, but Jonas is the obvious Port inclusion for this 'team reward'.

You are right on the money re expanded All Australian squads and the final selection process, Tom Jonas at his best was never much more than a `serviceable' role player, and that `best' form has been disappearing into the rear view mirror at a rate of knots for at least a couple of seasons now.
I suspect he was never really a genuine chance of making the final team in any of the seasons he was nominated.

Captain or not the old Port Adelaide many of us grew up supporting would have made the tough decision on him some time ago, but not this current mob, if things stay as they are, and unless TJ pulls the pin himself the decision could be left until his ghost is being propped up by the point post.

Hardwicke being too hard nosed and wanting to make key changes to the bummer's list was reported to have cost him the coaching job at that club, and unfortunately there is always the chance any potential new coach at Alberton could be hamstrung by the current group of luminaries who are supposed to be running our club, which could have an effect on the quality of the applicants.

 

[Lightning_Rod]

Cassisi and Jonas arent in the same category, one stuck in through some of our darkest days the other is a souless puppet for the least accomplished longest reigning coach we've ever had.

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[raptalia]

I was looking at past Port Adelaide captains of the past 60 years and I truly believe that Jonas and Cassisi would not be fit to tie the shoelaces of any of the previous captains listed.
By far are the 2 worst on the list.
Am I being biased?

Depends how you define a good Captain. Cassisi was what he was, a solid player who gave 100% and I cannot fault that. Tbh I was never that impressed by Gavin Wanganeen as a Captain and I thought Matty Primus was a much better choice.

For a while the Captaincy was a poisoned chalice for Port in the AFL. Wanganeen, Primus and Tredrea all suffered injury as soon as they were given the Captaincy.

Tom Jonas has had his good years at Port and when he was given the Captaincy his form was not that bad it is only in the last few years that it has slipped.

I am not sure about the purpose of this thread as the Captaincy is not the real issue and if we changed Captains overnight it would not change a lot as the same bloke would be calling the shots. I think Tom Jonas' time will be up at the end of this season and I hope the same applies to the Coach.

 

[Lightning_Rod]

This is an interesting one. Did Shaun really want the responsibility? He certainly didn't want the responsibility of being our best midfielder, and traded that in to play a less accountable halfback role at the Hawks. I'd love to see the alternate universe where he was made captain, I suspect he still would have left.

He did want it, and he probably should have got it, but the follow up behaviour and abandonment of the club because of it was pretty rubbish and that's light compared to how I felt when it all occured.

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[Pt Augusta Power]

How many games did Cassisi captain Port with 0 tackles/3 possessions?

He wasn’t a gun but he gave his all.

Jonas has stayed in the captain role way too long. Again - where is the development of leaders under Hinkley? He hasn’t developed any leaders.

 

[PAFC_FOREVER]

I don't think Jonas has ever been the same footballer since the Gaff incident,

Best thing he ever did.

Smashed him in advance of his dirty coward punch. He knew what was coming

 

[Bevoman]

Depends how you define a good Captain. Cassisi was what he was, a solid player who gave 100% and I cannot fault that. Tbh I was never that impressed by Gavin Wanganeen as a Captain and I thought Matty Primus was a much better choice.

For a while the Captaincy was a poisoned chalice for Port in the AFL. Wanganeen, Primus and Tredrea all suffered injury as soon as they were given the Captaincy.

Tom Jonas has had his good years at Port and when he was given the Captaincy his form was not that bad it is only in the last few years that it has slipped.

I am not sure about the purpose of this thread as the Captaincy is not the real issue and if we changed Captains overnight it would not change a lot as the same bloke would be calling the shots. I think Tom Jonas' time will be up at the end of this season and I hope the same applies to the Coach.

The old Port Adelaide was a big in the little SANFL pond.
We existed to win premierships and often did.
Reminiscing the good old days if fine but we need a reality check.

Where we are no longer the big fish and are swimming with the sharks.
And pretty soon us good old boys reminiscing the good old days will no longer be around.

Suggesting Jonas is a dud Captain as compared to our SANFL glory days does not help anyone.
We need to be more realistic with not crucify our future supporters and members with false flag expectations.
Clubs like the Saints have won only one flag, the Bulldogs waited for 60 years.
Heck, even the Cats who defeated us and have much recent success has to wait 44 years.

To bring in a new supporter base we should focus more post 1997.
If anything, we underachieved; at the turn of the century Tredders was the best player in the comp and we should have won more than one Granny. Where Primus was a far, far better Captain than Warren was; albeit, Tredeers has the honour of holding up our one & only AFL cup.

What goes around, comes around, we are building and will get our lick at another grannie soon.

 

[cosmicwinduptoy]

I always think - why do our players never mention Jonas as someone they look up to and want as a mentor?

As a young player, if you want to be a successful athlete, you model yourself on players like Boak, Petracca, Fyfe, Pendles (to name a few) that act professional. That lead by example on and off the field.

So why do the players continue to support Jonas each year with leading the team. Baffles me

Leaders aren't always well liked. They are who you want leading the charge when s**t hits the fan. I think Jonas meets this description.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

No.

 

[El_Scorcho]

The old Port Adelaide was a big in the little SANFL pond.
We existed to win premierships and often did.
Reminiscing the good old days if fine but we need a reality check.

Where we are no longer the big fish and are swimming with the sharks.
And pretty soon us good old boys reminiscing the good old days will no longer be around.

Suggesting Jonas is a dud Captain as compared to our SANFL glory days does not help anyone.
We need to be more realistic with not crucify our future supporters and members with false flag expectations.
Clubs like the Saints have won only one flag, the Bulldogs waited for 60 years.
Heck, even the Cats who defeated us and have much recent success has to wait 44 years.

To bring in a new supporter base we should focus more post 1997.
If anything, we underachieved; at the turn of the century Tredders was the best player in the comp and we should have won more than one Granny. Where Primus was a far, far better Captain than Warren was; albeit, Tredeers has the honour of holding up our one & only AFL cup.

What goes around, comes around, we are building and will get our lick at another grannie soon.

I’m sorry but this is just absolute loser garbage and this sort of attitude is exactly why we haven’t been successful under David Koch.

We didn’t win because we were a big fish, we were a big fish because we won premierships. And we won premierships because we made it our singular focus no matter the cost. Everyone at the club was expected to be the best at their role and adhere to the Creed and if you didn’t, you were moved on quickly. We had the most supporters in the SANFL because we won all the time, despite sharing a very crowded Western suburbs catchment area.

This is absolutely not a dig at Jonas because every player is a product of their environment to some degree, even culturally transformative leaders like Luke Hodge or Fos Williams. Would the likes of Tim Ginever or Greg Phillips have been such great leaders if they played for South Adelaide and were brought up under that culture? Probably, but it’s hard to say because they were immersed in that culture from the very beginning of their careers. The culture comes from the top down.

We don’t have to “wait our turn”, we can win flags in every decade like Hawthorn if we adopt the right behaviours. Further, assuming that if we wait our time will come is a furphy, it might not come. St Kilda have 1 flag in 126 years of V/AFL footy. I don’t need to tell you the behaviours we need to adopt, because the greatest leader in the history of our club wrote a Creed that spells it out better than anyone before or since. We have to live and breathe winning, we have to remove people from our club for whom winning premierships isn’t priority 1, 2 and 3. This is especially true in leadership positions, from the Chairman and CEO down.

If you believe you’re a little club who is a small fish swimming with sharks, you’ll give yourself that excuse year in year out and you’ll never win anything.

Further, the idea that we need to ignore our history to grow our supporter base is a complete misunderstanding of sports marketing and how it works. We of all clubs know that better than anyone. We almost died as a club when ignoring our history and we’ve dramatically increased in engagement when embracing it.

We can’t grow our supporter base meaningfully through marketing or branding. Only 2 things will grow our supporter base, population increase in our catchment area, and winning. Winning is everything. Marketing isn’t to attract new supporters, it’s to make the existing supporter base feel engaged enough to attend games and put money into the club. Abandoning a club’s heritage has never engaged a supporter base in the history of sport.

 

[The Hobo]

Throw Wines in as well

A brownlow medallist...

 

[TazD]

A brownlow medallist...

And this individual award makes him a good captain?

 

[The Hobo]

And this individual award makes him a good captain?

Not on its own, no. But for me, the type of player you are, and your accomplishments is important in being captain. Cassisi was a good solid player, but the role he played etc didn't scream captain to me. Jonas has always been a no nonsense defender who puts his body on the line for the team every week - players will play for him because they know that. Wines is no different. He also gets additional respect for being a brownlow medallist.


Wines has also never been a stand alone captain in his own right, so I'm not sure why you're saying he's not a good captain.

He has been acting captain though during most of our winning streak - and I didn't see anything to suggest he deserves to be marked as a poor captain.

 

[TazD]

Not on its own, no. But for me, the type of player you are, and your accomplishments is important in being captain. Cassisi was a good solid player, but the role he played etc didn't scream captain to me. Jonas has always been a no nonsense defender who puts his body on the line for the team every week - players will play for him because they know that. Wines is no different. He also gets additional respect for being a brownlow medallist.


Wines has also never been a stand alone captain in his own right, so I'm not sure why you're saying he's not a good captain.

He has been acting captain though during most of our winning streak - and I didn't see anything to suggest he deserves to be marked as a poor captain.

Not sure the "win streak" matters here as the comment you've pulled me up on pre-dates it. FWIW, my opinion of his leadership hasn't changed.

 

[n4nirvana]

Boaky at age 30, stepped down from the captaincy in 2018
and is still playing 2023.

Imagine if he never stood down. Jonas was his deputy instead.
Where would Boak then stand among Port captains?

 

[glitch01]

Boaky at age 30, stepped down from the captaincy in 2018
and is still playing 2023.

Imagine if he never stood down. Jonas was his deputy instead.
Where would Boak then stand among Port captains?

Not sure where Boak rates as a captain amongst the plethora of good ones we’ve had.
Regardless of his overall standing it is plainly obvious he rates highly as a leader.
Whenever you see our younger players interviewed and are asked who inspires them or mentored them the majority mention Boak.
He is clearly still our spiritual leader.


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[Interstater]

We didn’t win because we were a big fish, we were a big fish because we won premierships. And we won premierships because we made it our singular focus no matter the cost. Everyone at the club was expected to be the best at their role and adhere to the Creed and if you didn’t, you were moved on quickly. We had the most supporters in the SANFL because we won all the time, despite sharing a very crowded Western suburbs catchment area.

This is absolutely not a dig at Jonas because every player is a product of their environment to some degree, even culturally transformative leaders like Luke Hodge or Fos Williams. Would the likes of Tim Ginever or Greg Phillips have been such great leaders if they played for South Adelaide and were brought up under that culture? Probably, but it’s hard to say because they were immersed in that culture from the very beginning of their careers. The culture comes from the top down.

We don’t have to “wait our turn”, we can win flags in every decade like Hawthorn if we adopt the right behaviours. Further, assuming that if we wait our time will come is a furphy, it might not come. St Kilda have 1 flag in 126 years of V/AFL footy. I don’t need to tell you the behaviours we need to adopt, because the greatest leader in the history of our club wrote a Creed that spells it out better than anyone before or since. We have to live and breathe winning, we have to remove people from our club for whom winning premierships isn’t priority 1, 2 and 3. This is especially true in leadership positions, from the Chairman and CEO down.

If you believe you’re a little club who is a small fish swimming with sharks, you’ll give yourself that excuse year in year out and you’ll never win anything.

Further, the idea that we need to ignore our history to grow our supporter base is a complete misunderstanding of sports marketing and how it works. We of all clubs know that better than anyone. We almost died as a club when ignoring our history and we’ve dramatically increased in engagement when embracing it.

We can’t grow our supporter base meaningfully through marketing or branding. Only 2 things will grow our supporter base, population increase in our catchment area, and winning. Winning is everything. Marketing isn’t to attract new supporters, it’s to make the existing supporter base feel engaged enough to attend games and put money into the club. Abandoning a club’s heritage has never engaged a supporter base in the history of sport.

This is the much more important discussion, the captains is a subset of it.

Been watching a lot of Ted Lasso lately, and if that in any way reflects the modern football club then we are not going back to the Fos style.

The world is a different place and at some level football clubs are a reflection of the current society.
People are all individual snowflakes these days in a way that was not the norm in the 80's even.

Go watch an episode of Benny Hill, Some Mothers do have them, Love Thy Neighbor even the Comedy Company, and tell me that the values then have not changed.

Yes, we still want success, especially those that grew up experiencing it, unlike the horrible mediocrity of our AFL record, but we need to get smarter at achieving it.

We have to stop being managed by the AFL itself for a start, rinse out anyone who effectively works for them, and start being more club centric again. We are overly franchised just now, we need to be a club again with a focus on success as a club. The real question is not What, but How. And the captain discussion is just a reflection on an era of failure.

 

[thundercloud]

Measured, classy and positive speech to playing group showed why he was made captain. A pair of strong safe hands, like the way he played his football.

 

[Interstater]

Here's hoping our next captain is a real Roy Kent.

Spoiler: Ted Lasso Spoiler

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Boaky at age 30, stepped down from the captaincy in 2018
and is still playing 2023.

Imagine if he never stood down. Jonas was his deputy instead.
Where would Boak then stand among Port captains?

Depends how many flags we won