Analysis 2016 List Management Discussion

[HARKER]

2017 2nd > Marchbank + Stewart (they need to reduce list and cap dramatically)
Touhy > 2016 17-22 pick
Everitt + Whiley/Graham > GC 2016 pick 24/27
2016 Pick 41 > Hrovat/Lennon/Honeychurch

*Maybe*
Boekhorst > West Coast 2016 pick 30

Hit 2016 draft for best available talent with 5(Brodie/Ainsworth), 18(Simpkin/Venables), 23(Kerr), 27(Florent), 30*(Gallucci), 48(Smokey) and then wait until next year when Daisy and Jones contacts are up (approx $1mil) to go for a bigger named midfield player like a Shiel or Wines.

Got to think 2 years in advance this trade period. Need to add as many draftees as possible to go with the 6 we got in last year, having 10-12 players on the list that are within 1 year of age is a great core as they will all mature together, a mate would run that extra 10m for you rather than a player you bring in for money.

Not bad Bluezzzz ...................but did you need to post it in 2 threads?

 

[Soapy V]

Good midfields keep you in the hunt - quality key position players set you aside from the rest.

totally disagree. thats old school thinking. look at the last 10 flags. the game has changed and dramatically. its why hawthorn weren't concerned about buddy going. clarkson is one of the best thinkers in the game and even without gun forwards he is chasing mitchell & omeara and is happy to get vickery as a role player. beveridge is a clarkson disciple and seems to be going down a similar path. i think bolton will as well.

 

[ferrisb]

Not bad Bluezzzz ...................but did you need to post it in 2 threads?

Do we end up with double the draft picks?

 

[F_therest]

totally disagree. thats old school thinking. look at the last 10 flags. the game has changed and dramatically. its why hawthorn weren't concerned about buddy going. clarkson is one of the best thinkers in the game and even without gun forwards he is chasing mitchell & omeara and is happy to get vickery as a role player. beveridge is a clarkson disciple and seems to be going down a similar path. i think bolton will as well.

Yep, recent history shows having a deep, elite midfield is necessary to winning a premiership.

You can get away with KPP's and ruckmen who are just role players.

Ill state it again, Dogs are using Roughead, Boyd, Cordy & Hamling...that's a seriously average bunch of tall players and yet they are in a Grand Final and thrashed WC in Perth and Hawthorn, then beat GWS at their home ground.

Also, while yes Sydney do have Buddy and Tippett, their strength is without doubt their midfield.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Do we end up with double the draft picks?

Just as long as we dont end up with 2 Lennons.

 

[Soapy V]

Yep, recent history shows having a deep, elite midfield is necessary to winning a premiership.

You can get away with KPP's and ruckmen who are just role players.

Ill state it again, Dogs are using Roughead, Boyd, Cordy & Hamling...that's a seriously average bunch of tall players and yet they are in a Grand Final and thrashed WC in Perth and Hawthorn, then beat GWS at their home ground.

Also, while yes Sydney do have Buddy and Tippett, their strength is without doubt their midfield.

agree. i see buddy as a mobile player anyway and tippett is better in the ruck than as a forward. kicks bugger all goals. wce last year did better when their tall defenders went down. their big forwards also struggle to fire in finals.

look at this years finals alone. who has kicked the goals for the winners and who has been the better players.

 

[Soapy V]

Also, while yes Sydney do have Buddy and Tippett, their strength is without doubt their midfield.

.....and their run from defence. mills has been a star and i thought jones really added something against geelong. even allir is more of an attacking running player. geelomg relying on dangerfield & selwood have a slow defence & a slow forward line so when the pressure was on they struggled.

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

Yep, recent history shows having a deep, elite midfield is necessary to winning a premiership.

You can get away with KPP's and ruckmen who are just role players.

Ill state it again, Dogs are using Roughead, Boyd, Cordy & Hamling...that's a seriously average bunch of tall players and yet they are in a Grand Final and thrashed WC in Perth and Hawthorn, then beat GWS at their home ground.

Also, while yes Sydney do have Buddy and Tippett, their strength is without doubt their midfield.

Pretty unfair on their players. Boyd, Roughead and Hambling have grown another leg in the finals series, particularly the latter who has been excellent.

 

[Soapy V]

Silky quick players get tired. Talls don't get shorter in the last quarter.

you mean someone like johannisen?

 

[ParapMarkets]

Pretty unfair on their players. Boyd, Roughead and Hambling have grown another leg in the finals series, particularly the latter who has been excellent.

They've been adequate, they have been pretty good through the finals (Boyd showing some good signs for the future) but lets face it they haven't set the world on fire. The job of a defender can be made infinitely easier by a group of hard working, two way running mids. Midfielders applying pressure to forward 50 kicks and dropping back to assist can make the big fella's look good.

 

[FuzzyWuzzyAngel]

Zerohangar report GWS offer up Marchbank and Stewart for Pick 5

I still say it is too much....we need to keep Pick 5 and target one of the good mids in the draft....hopefully Brodie

 

[FuzzyWuzzyAngel]

Zerohangar report GWS offer up Marchbank and Stewart for Pick 5

I still say it is too much....we need to keep Pick 5 and target one of the good mids in the draft....hopefully Brodie

They have said they want a replacement for Heath Shaw
trade Touhy to them for Marchbank and Stewart

 

[Funk]

if the 2 grand finalists should teach us anything its that we need midfielders. both sides have workmanlike running defenders and neither has an effective key forward in the kennedy type. i class buddy as a mobile forward. the bulldogs goals in big finals have been kicked by smith & dickson. swans by papley & mcglynn. the modern game is all about running players who can use the ball and it happens to be our weakness. we need running players with good disposal and lots of them

Fair point Soapy.

But the real question is "what will be a winning strategy in 2021/2022?"

We won't be a serious contender until then - and that's what our planning needs to be based upon.

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

Zerohangar report GWS offer up Marchbank and Stewart for Pick 5

I still say it is too much....we need to keep Pick 5 and target one of the good mids in the draft....hopefully Brodie

How good is Stewart? For some reason I thought he was more of a steak knives type? THat said, lord do we need some help up forward.

 

[Big Sim is Back]

Zerohangar report GWS offer up Marchbank and Stewart for Pick 5

I still say it is too much....

And so say all of us. Stewart is not even steak knives in any deal. More like one of those little plastic spoons you get with a take away yoghurt.

Add Tomlinson and you could start negotiating.

 

[passmark]

How good is Stewart? For some reason I thought he was more of a steak knives type? THat said, lord do we need some help up forward.

Definitely a steak knife.

So pick 5 for a guy who was a pick 6 and can't get on the park does not sound right to me.

 

[passmark]

And so say all of us. Stewart is not even steak knives in any deal. More like one of those little plastic spoons you get with a take away yoghurt.

Add Tomlinson and you could start negotiating.

And what good is a steak knife with yogurt!!!

 

[Big Sim is Back]

And what good is a steak knife with yogurt!!!

Depends how thick it is I guess. And chunky.

 

[Funk]

Do we end up with double the draft picks?

Yep - but we have to give up Everitt twice

 

[Aphrodite]

Zerohangar report GWS offer up Marchbank and Stewart for Pick 5

I still say it is too much....we need to keep Pick 5 and target one of the good mids in the draft....hopefully Brodie

Another footy fan blog.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

totally disagree. thats old school thinking. look at the last 10 flags. the game has changed and dramatically. its why hawthorn weren't concerned about buddy going. clarkson is one of the best thinkers in the game and even without gun forwards he is chasing mitchell & omeara and is happy to get vickery as a role player. beveridge is a clarkson disciple and seems to be going down a similar path. i think bolton will as well.

One team in the last 10 years have won without a gun KPF. Every good team has good midfielders because that's where most of the players play. It's simple maths really. The more good players you have the better you'll be but still only one team has managed to win without a gun KPF

 

[Soapy V]

Fair point Soapy.

But the real question is "what will be a winning strategy in 2021/2022?"

We won't be a serious contender until then - and that's what our planning needs to be based upon.

agree. i think that unless the rules change the game will just more and more of a contested ball contest all around the ground. i would hate to be a key forward these days. it's rarely kicked to a contest up forward and if it is its against a swarm of opposition. sides now hold the ball and hit a target or get sides on turnovers and kick the ball into space for the running players. the 2 best at these days are swans & dogs. over the past few years it has been the hawks but this year they really struggled to win the ball around the ground

 

[Sector 7G]

totally disagree. thats old school thinking. look at the last 10 flags. the game has changed and dramatically. its why hawthorn weren't concerned about buddy going. clarkson is one of the best thinkers in the game and even without gun forwards he is chasing mitchell & omeara and is happy to get vickery as a role player. beveridge is a clarkson disciple and seems to be going down a similar path. i think bolton will as well.

Last year the Hawks had good talls and won the Premiership .

This year they failed to replace Lake, Roughy and Hale and they were out in straight sets.

Last year the Hawks game plan was they were happy to lose the contested ball. I don't things have changed that much it is just they no longer have the team to back up the previous style.

If Dangerfield hadn't walked out on Adelaide we would probably be talking how we need to get a mobile attacking forward line with a combination of 3 tall forwards and 2 small forward.

The dogs recruited 2 tall defenders last draft and 3 weeks ago were supposedly interested in an old hack in Cloke to boost their forward line. I think it is more Beveridge making do with what he has got in a very even year.

Having said that, there is no doubt we need heaps of mids (like the Bulldogs) and more importantly real depth (like the Bulldogs). That's why I am not particularly fussed on the Marchbank deal and wouldn't give up our first rounder.

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

One team in the last 10 years have won without a gun KPF. Every good team has good midfielders because that's where most of the players play. It's simple maths really. The more good players you have the better you'll be but still only one team has managed to win without a gun KPF

West Coast in 06, Geelong in 07, Geelong in 09 (Hawkins was a child) and Sydney in 2012 all beg to differ.

 

[Soapy V]

Last year the Hawks had good talls and won the Premiership .

This year they failed to replace Lake, Roughy and Hale and they were out in straight sets.

Last year the Hawks game plan was they were happy to lose the contested ball. I don't things have changed that much it is just they no longer have the team to back up the previous style.

If Dangerfield hadn't walked out on Adelaide we would probably be talking how we need to get a mobile attacking forward line with a combination of 3 tall forwards and 2 small forward.

The dogs recruited 2 tall defenders last draft and 3 weeks ago were supposedly interested in an old hack in Cloke to boost their forward line. I think it is more Beveridge making do with what he has got in a very even year.

Having said that, there is no doubt we need heaps of mids (like the Bulldogs) and more importantly real depth (like the Bulldogs). That's why I am not particularly fussed on the Marchbank deal and wouldn't give up our first rounder.

sometimes the situation brings out the best in a list. i still believe wce played better last year when a number of talls went down. as for hawthorn roughead didn't play like a key position player and hale was a role player. lake was very good but we already have weitering.

i am not saying don't have any talls. you need some and hopefully good ones. our defence with marchbank added to weitering plowman rowe and hopefully g-mac & jaksch looks good to me. our forward line with mckay & silvagni (maybe charlie) has a real future. i now believe that the area we lack is around the ball and run and carry added to good ball use and we need as much elite talent as possible. imo this needs to be our target during the trade/draft period. if we added 8-10 quality running players like the dogs have i can see us being a finals side quite quickly