Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion

[THE_GUN]

Give us your opinion on a head to head line up of our midfield vs Freo's.

I dont think there is anything in it in 2019. Doesnt mean we beat Freo but our midfield has every chance to beat them on the day.

I think you keep looking at us in relation to a top 4 or 6 outfit where we lack mature depth.

Personally i would prefer Carltons midfield going foward but still think you guys have some missing pieces , Josh Kelly & Coniglio are 2 players that SOS should really be having a real crack at. Even if it means losing a few players along the way it accelerates the development of the kids as well as adds really class instantly. Will also add 15,000 members.

Cant always be thinking about tomorrow and sometimes you need to bite the bullet

 

[BlueRenaissance]

Personally i would prefer Carltons midfield going foward but still think you guys have some missing pieces , Josh Kelly & Coniglio are 2 players that SOS should really be having a real crack at. Even if it means losing a few players along the way it accelerates the development of the kids as well as adds really class instantly. Will also add 15,000 members.

Cant always be thinking about tomorrow and sometimes you need to bite the bullet

How does this look in terms of a matchup for 2019 (the now). I like our chances and the difference is miniscule either way:

Kruezer vs Sandi
Cripps vs Fyfe
Murphy vs Mundy
Kennedy vs Connor Blakely
Dow vs Cerra
Fisher vs Brayshaw
SPS vs Hill
E Curnow vs Langdon
Setterfield/Walsh vs Banfield

I like our midfield vs Freo and GCs for starters, and I like it in 2019. We only improve thereafter.

I havent compared versus other teams but I now like us against Hawthorns midfield and the Kangas. And whether one team is marginally better...you can see it will be decided on the day by other factors.

 

[Laphroaig]

You are asking a hell of alot for these players to carry the midfield with only Cripps and Curnow as experienced midfielders

It is what it is.

Couple of years ago a Saints supporting mate told me he was going to a game against a Top 4 side. I replied "Good luck with that". His response was that he just wanted to see how the young blokes went.

Hasn't worked out real well for St Kilda at this point. I think that even here in the overly optimistic sheltered environment of the Club board, the main expectation is that these talented young men mature and improve together, until one day they are all talented men. It is not going to happen overnight.

The major concern is that we simply can not afford a catastrophic run with injury as in 2018, which demands too much from those left standing. You can set talented youngsters big tasks and it can serve to accelerate their development. But there is a line on how far they can be pushed before you get the opposite result and they get ruined - think Melbourne in their darkest years.

 

[Laphroaig]

Personally i would prefer Carltons midfield going foward but still think you guys have some missing pieces , Josh Kelly & Coniglio are 2 players that SOS should really be having a real crack at. Even if it means losing a few players along the way it accelerates the development of the kids as well as adds really class instantly. Will also add 15,000 members.

Cant always be thinking about tomorrow and sometimes you need to bite the bullet

That is clearly the Club's intention now.

However, I don't like our chances of landing either Kelly or Coniglio.

I believe that part of Shiel's decision process would have been timescale. Same same the other two. These guys have done some years of really hard yards in an immature team already. What is going to convince them to go back to the beginning and do most of it all over again?

We would have to have a massive year of progress to tip that balance. Possibly a better chance to grab a gun from a team which has not scraped the bottom within the player's career.

 

[HARKER]

We keep comparing players here but that's not what it's about any more.
The CFC have compiled talent across the board and the group simply have to be coached and developed well, with a clear and suitable game plan in tow.

There are a couple of gaps that are likely to show up through the season that will need to be and will be plugged up.
You can't manufacture experience though, so unfortunately only time and games into players, will bring this about.

It's all about our 25 and under group now and we're unlikely to be a serious force until that group has clocked up game averages around the 80 mark.
We're still a little way away from that mark though.

 

[Coona Blues]

How does this look in terms of a matchup for 2019 (the now). I like our chances and the difference is miniscule either way:

Kruezer vs Sandi
Cripps vs Fyfe
Murphy vs Mundy
Kennedy vs Connor Blakely
Dow vs Cerra
Fisher vs Brayshaw
SPS vs Hill
E Curnow vs Langdon
Setterfield/Walsh vs Banfield

I like our midfield vs Freo and GCs for starters, and I like it in 2019. We only improve thereafter.

I haven't compared versus other teams but I now like us against Hawthorns midfield and the Kangas. And whether one team is marginally better...you can see it will be decided on the day by other factors.

Sandilands/Darcy...……..Kreuzer/TDK Won't win the hit outs, but that is not what rucking is all about now
Fyfe...…………………………...Cripps Wow
Mundy...………………………..Ed Curnow Good match ageing Mundy V our workhorse
Blakely...……………………….Kennedy Blakely in front on exposed form, but I feel reality will be different
S.Hill……………………………..Murphy Both better outside, but played inside by necessity
B.Hill……………………………..Fisher Fish more inside good match up if Hill can get on the park
Walters...……………...……..Petrevski-Seton Not totally like for like but SPS first pre season v injury prone Sonny who has it on experience and pace
Brayshaw……………………...Dow Young bulls, who would you back?
Bewley...……………...….....Setterfield Mature aged Bewley training house down, expect big impact. If Setters read expect bigger impact
Cerra...………………………….O'Brien Cerra training with the backs and LOB predominantly wing
Banfield...………...………….Walsh Banfield their tagger now. Walshy probably to impact as much as any draftee since Juddy
Valente...……………………...Stocker Developing youngsters, project similarly
…...…………...…...add Cuningham and Lang on our side, maybe Gibbons

If both sides play to projected will be a great contest. They have a youngish, but talented and determined defence against our big boys and the smalls we
can muster. If their new forward structure gels, they will be a handful. Adding Hogan and Lobb to developing Taberner and Cox (maybe McCarthy) and a
group of capable smalls should make them more potent forward.

 

[Arr0w]

Sandilands/Darcy...……..Kreuzer/TDK Won't win the hit outs, but that is not what rucking is all about now
Fyfe...…………………………...Cripps Wow
Mundy...………………………..Ed Curnow Good match ageing Mundy V our workhorse
Blakely...……………………….Kennedy Blakely in front on exposed form, but I feel reality will be different
S.Hill……………………………..Murphy Both better outside, but played inside by necessity
B.Hill……………………………..Fisher Fish more inside good match up if Hill can get on the park
Walters...……………...……..Petrevski-Seton Not totally like for like but SPS first pre season v injury prone Sonny who has it on experience and pace
Brayshaw……………………...Dow Young bulls, who would you back?
Bewley...……………...….....Setterfield Mature aged Bewley training house down, expect big impact. If Setters read expect bigger impact
Cerra...………………………….O'Brien Cerra training with the backs and LOB predominantly wing
Banfield...………...………….Walsh Banfield their tagger now. Walshy probably to impact as much as any draftee since Juddy
Valente...……………………...Stocker Developing youngsters, project similarly
…...…………...…...add Cuningham and Lang on our side, maybe Gibbons

If both sides play to projected will be a great contest. They have a youngish, but talented and determined defence against our big boys and the smalls we
can muster. If their new forward structure gels, they will be a handful. Adding Hogan and Lobb to developing Taberner and Cox (maybe McCarthy) and a
group of capable smalls should make them more potent forward.

Good match-ups Coona. We do have way more options this year

Fyfe v Cripps, great match-up
Mundy will probably spend even more time forward, but when he is on the ball, I would play Setterfield on him due to his height. (Setters reminds me of Mundy, would be an interesting match-up)
S Hill, I see LOB as the perfect match up, both great runners and left-footers
B. Hill v SPS, similar style
Brayshaw v Murphy, again similar styles
Blakey, tall, solid body, spot on with Kennedy
Walters, Fisher is his clone
Cerra, not quick so Ed would handle him well
Valente and Stocker, again spot on

That leaves Dow, who could have a day out, although Banfield is an underrated stopper, who could also go to Walsh

I hope both sides are relatively injury free, would be a good assessment as to where our list is at

 

[gbatman]

So much riding on potential and the hope that these midfield players will fulfil that for us. There's a chance that that group really comes on this year and there's a chance that the injury riddled players remain as such and that some just aren't that good. With footy who knows. What we have is given ourselves a bloody good chance of going somewhere.

It will be the depth and rotations that gives the main boost, along with some more size and strength around the contests. Legspeed from our inside players probably remains a bit of a question and our ability to run out games but that's all part of our improvement.

I think we need to keep adding talent and if we can add a young ready made star to the midfield group then we're more than likely made.

I'm really keen to see the intensity and speed at which these young guys can play at. The skill is probably there now. I'm just interested in the shere competitiveness of this group.

In terms of structure you want a situation where you have too many good mids to fit into the side. Guys like Stocker, Kennedy, Cuningham, Setterfield etc start to really shine then we're in a great position. Then we start looking at how we use rotations and looking at mids who can effectively play other positions and play them as utilities as a part of the rotations. Guys like Fisher who can play forward and mid are pure gold in this situation. In an ideal world you have a bench full of guys who are genuine inside and outside mids who can go forward and back at times. I think anyone who is a mid and might be a bit fringe, if they can effectively play back or play forward they that gives them a bit more of a chance at making our side.

Real keen on hearing and seeing the results from the first hitouts, that will separate the wheat from the chaff a bit. Hopefully there are some surprises. I think intensity, effort and workrate will be what the coaches will be keen to see. I think most of them have the skills.

 

[BJuddy]

Maybe you are right or maybe you are wrong but if i was to ask you to mention in the same sentence as paddy Dow , Would you ??

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...d2=4&type=A&pid1=6465&pid2=6464&fid1=S&fid2=S

Definitely, The kid can play.

He even won throw of the year this year.

 

[Blue__Balls]

The key to winning games this year is going to be starting fast. The best way for us to get the points is to get the jump on the opposition in the first quarter, take a 3+ goal lead into the first break, and then grind out the game from that point on. If we're chasing tail from the get go, the young blokes are going to have to run themselves ragged for 4 quarters trying to claw back in front.

Better for our development to learn to hold a lead as well.

 

[thylacine60]

don't necessarily agree with the fast start - round 1 last year we all knew it was just a matter of time before we were reigned in - what I do want to see is no more giving up unassailable leads - it seems we've been playing catch-up footy for 20 years - better fitness, stronger bodies, a cohesive game plan and better understanding between players will equal BELIEF and a much better chance we are in games longer and running on top of the ground at the siren

 

[BlueGum]

Reined

 

[thylacine60]

fare cop

 

[AceAndy]

Reined

Poured.


Thought we were in the Word Association thread

 

[skadoosh]

The key to winning games this year is going to be starting fast. The best way for us to get the points is to get the jump on the opposition in the first quarter, take a 3+ goal lead into the first break, and then grind out the game from that point on. If we're chasing tail from the get go, the young blokes are going to have to run themselves ragged for 4 quarters trying to claw back in front.

Better for our development to learn to hold a lead as well.

Just my opinion...but I reckon the key to winning will be to kick a higher score than the opposition

 

[Blue__Balls]

Just my opinion...but I reckon the key to winning will be to kick a higher score than the opposition

Progressive thinking, just what the club needs

 

[therubbernub]

What is going to convince them to go back to the beginning and do most of it all over again?

A year is a LONG TIME in footy. Particularly if you have a wave of very talented youngsters coming through and all improving at the same time. there are very few of our key players that are on downward performance curves yet and i include simpson Murphy and Kreuzer in that. Most teams have young talent coming through that have to step up and replace the loss of talent at the other end through retirements or flagging performance, which somewhat dampens the improvement . I only see positive improvement coming throuh and very little being lost in the next 2-3 years.
In other words , we should expect revolutionary improvement rather than evolutionary improvement in our list and on field performance. The Carlton of 2018 will be a distant memory by the end of 2019 , and there will be some unknown players that we all know are on our list, that will finally be getting some recognition with the media and players. There will be a light bulb moment suddenly in 2019 , that will recognize our real potential and IMO we will not be viewed as a club who are "miles away" rather a club who are "ön the cusp ". Its a much easier sell to coniglio or kelly to join us when they see the coming 12 months performance from our young budding stars.
FWIW, i am not predicting finals this year, but I am expecting us to have some boil-over results and we will give most sides a run for their money- including the tigers and the pies.

 

[thylacine60]

tipping off-season 2019/2020 is gonna feel like an eternity...........

 

[Zatoichi Blue]

tipping off-season 2019/2020 is gonna feel like an eternity...........

All the more time than for a Christmas album re-release.........340-odd days to go.......

 

[thylacine60]

had to be said......

 

[Arr0w]

tipping off-season 2019/2020 is gonna feel like an eternity...........

From here to eternity? I conkerr

 

[NewDarkNavyBlues]

So much riding on potential and the hope that these midfield players will fulfil that for us. There's a chance that that group really comes on this year and there's a chance that the injury riddled players remain as such and that some just aren't that good. With footy who knows. What we have is given ourselves a bloody good chance of going somewhere.

It will be the depth and rotations that gives the main boost, along with some more size and strength around the contests. Legspeed from our inside players probably remains a bit of a question and our ability to run out games but that's all part of our improvement.

I think we need to keep adding talent and if we can add a young ready made star to the midfield group then we're more than likely made.

I'm really keen to see the intensity and speed at which these young guys can play at. The skill is probably there now. I'm just interested in the shere competitiveness of this group.

In terms of structure you want a situation where you have too many good mids to fit into the side. Guys like Stocker, Kennedy, Cuningham, Setterfield etc start to really shine then we're in a great position. Then we start looking at how we use rotations and looking at mids who can effectively play other positions and play them as utilities as a part of the rotations. Guys like Fisher who can play forward and mid are pure gold in this situation. In an ideal world you have a bench full of guys who are genuine inside and outside mids who can go forward and back at times. I think anyone who is a mid and might be a bit fringe, if they can effectively play back or play forward they that gives them a bit more of a chance at making our side.

Real keen on hearing and seeing the results from the first hitouts, that will separate the wheat from the chaff a bit. Hopefully there are some surprises. I think intensity, effort and workrate will be what the coaches will be keen to see. I think most of them have the skills.

All I know is that the Northern Blues will be worth watching this year. I'll be attending many more games than last season. It will be like watching a legitimate Carlton development squad. With names such as Setterfield, Stocker, Macreadie, BSOS, Finbar, Cuners, TDK, LeBois, Polson, Goddard, Lang, Schumacher, Garlett, Phillips, Lobbe, Owies and Kerr, there's talent on every line.

Could also potentially include Gibbons and Cottrell.

 

[Moody Blue]

So much riding on potential and the hope that these midfield players will fulfil that for us. There's a chance that that group really comes on this year and there's a chance that the injury riddled players remain as such and that some just aren't that good. With footy who knows. What we have is given ourselves a bloody good chance of going somewhere.

It will be the depth and rotations that gives the main boost, along with some more size and strength around the contests. Legspeed from our inside players probably remains a bit of a question and our ability to run out games but that's all part of our improvement.

I think we need to keep adding talent and if we can add a young ready made star to the midfield group then we're more than likely made.

I'm really keen to see the intensity and speed at which these young guys can play at. The skill is probably there now. I'm just interested in the shere competitiveness of this group.

In terms of structure you want a situation where you have too many good mids to fit into the side. Guys like Stocker, Kennedy, Cuningham, Setterfield etc start to really shine then we're in a great position. Then we start looking at how we use rotations and looking at mids who can effectively play other positions and play them as utilities as a part of the rotations. Guys like Fisher who can play forward and mid are pure gold in this situation. In an ideal world you have a bench full of guys who are genuine inside and outside mids who can go forward and back at times. I think anyone who is a mid and might be a bit fringe, if they can effectively play back or play forward they that gives them a bit more of a chance at making our side.

Real keen on hearing and seeing the results from the first hitouts, that will separate the wheat from the chaff a bit. Hopefully there are some surprises. I think intensity, effort and workrate will be what the coaches will be keen to see. I think most of them have the skills.

Kennedy???. Waiting for the inevitable excuses for him. Not upto it and will be delisted at the end of the season. Murphy needs to stand up and have a huge season or retire at the end of the year. Game seems to have passed him by.

 

[Mr_Plow]

Bold claims.
Be nice enough to give a guy more than an injury-riddled year before you cast him aside.

 

[Stefchook]

A year is a LONG TIME in footy. Particularly if you have a wave of very talented youngsters coming through and all improving at the same time. there are very few of our key players that are on downward performance curves yet and i include Simpson, Murphy and Kreuzer in that. Most teams have young talent coming through that have to step up and replace the loss of talent at the other end through retirements or flagging performance, which somewhat dampens the improvement . I only see positive improvement coming through and very little being lost in the next 2-3 years. In other words , we should expect revolutionary improvement rather than evolutionary improvement in our list and on field performance.

I agree with the basic tenor of the post. But we have lost Docherty again (and chances are, he'll never be the player he was). And I'm not quite so optimistic about Kreuzer (I suspect his body won't hold together either).