2021 NON AFL Thread - finance, ratings, participation etc.

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Cmarsh

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From England: Manchester United, Liverpool, Manchester City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Tottenham.

From Spain: Barcelona, Real Madrid and Atlético Madrid.

And from Italy: Juventus, Inter Milan and AC Milan.

As yet, no team from France or Germany has signed on, meaning teams like Paris St Germain and Bayern Munich remain on UEFA's good side.

There are still three more spots left to be filled among the "founding clubs", with five more teams (for a total of 20) also joining each year depending on their results from the previous season.

Geez and I thought the A-league had problems.
 

Gigantor

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just heard that the A-League got a crowd of 990 last night
looks like it's a record low
actually played in melbourne and it involved a melbourne team
 

kaypee

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just heard that the A-League got a crowd of 990 last night
looks like it's a record low
actually played in melbourne and it involved a melbourne team
on the plus side, western United can probably get away with a small stadium should the Tarneit proposal ever get off the ground.
 

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weewilly

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just heard that the A-League got a crowd of 990 last night
looks like it's a record low
actually played in melbourne and it involved a melbourne team
It was apparently the worst ever for an A League match in Melbourne!

It just proves once again that local soccer can't compete against the big boys AFL,NRL,RU and the deeper they go into winter(H & A finishes in July) and the AFL,NRL and RU seasons the worse it will get and add to that both the two biggest clubs MU and SFC are not playing well and you have a disaster waiting to happen.
 

kaypee

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It was apparently the worst ever for an A League match in Melbourne!

It just proves once again that local soccer can't compete against the big boys AFL,NRL,RU and the deeper they go into winter(H & A finishes in July) and the AFL,NRL and RU seasons the worse it will get and add to that both the two biggest clubs MU and SFC are not playing well and you have a disaster waiting to happen.
and another reason why divisions can't happen. imagine if Melbourne or Sydney got relegated.
 

BringBackTorps

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Strewth No. 1

"In 2021, Geelong as a region is struggling in its girls and women[soccer club] participation numbers, with many local clubs fielding significantly less teams.

“Since last year’s Covid19 cancelled Senior’s soccer season, female participation has dropped off significantly in our Geelong region,” said Galaxy President Branko Krstevski

“Geelong’s Senior team registration is down around 50% from pre-Covid19 times.”

Galaxy and the Geelong region are not alone in their struggles, with a number of clubs in Victoria across the NPLW, VPLW, State League and community competitions, struggling for players at senior and junior level".


Can anyone advise the approx. % that female club soccer nos. are down in Victoria? And where in Vic.?
Is there a similar problem in other States- if so, by what %? And where in these States?



Strewth No.2

Open the first video on the "huge brawl" last week between NPL Sydney United soccer fans (Croation- backed club) & Rockdale Ilinden (North Macedonian-backed clubs), after a nil all draw. Sydney Riot Squad were needed to break up the brawl.

There is a video on a "fan" holding a large metal star picket?/machete?/knife? (but no claims it was used)!
Scroll to c. 1 min. 1 sec. to 1 min.5 secs. (Man dressed fully in black, with black cap, is holding the metal object); also c. 1 min. 14 secs. the metal object can be seen.

"Three men have been hospitalised, with lacerations". Injuries not life threatening.




Strewth No. 3

'If you haven’t got pride....' - Carl's challenge as fans demand change


"The RBB make their feelings known at Wanderers Headquarters
'IF YOU HAVEN’T GOT PRIDE....' - CARL'S CHALLENGE AS FANS DEMAND CHANGE
By Janakan Seemampillai Apr 27 2021 11:16AM"




Why do soccer fans regularly have mass, organised, pre-planned abuse/chants/banners- swearing &/or racist?

In contrast, the WS Wanderers have built a $30m training facility- very impressive.




Strewth No. 4

With an impressive new Stand being built, lowly NPL3 Division Preston Lions soccer team attracted a very good home crowd of apparently c. 3500 on a Monday night, 9.4.21.

This club is backed by the North Macedonian community.

 
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BobbyMorri

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and another reason why divisions can't happen. imagine if Melbourne or Sydney got relegated.
this has nothing to do with divisions. Western United, after all, are doing quite well on the table.

It is a bad crowd, but it should be remembered that it was a Monday night of a match which has been rescheduled several times. And Western United is a "Melbourne" club with no fans or home base. I am surprised it took them that long TBH.
Can anyone advise the approx. % that female club soccer nos. are down in Victoria?
Is there a similar problem in other States- if so, by what %?
Not close to the grassroots soccer leagues down here. But our top statewide soccer league increased by 1 team to 7 with a reintroduction of Launceston United. Football Tasmania has statewide leagues for both men's and women's soccer, both of which includes an NW team. Something AFL Tas seem incapable of doing, with the statewide womens league been canned last year and no NW team in the TSL.

I am sure Wookie has numbers for participation.
 

The_Wookie

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this has nothing to do with divisions. Western United, after all, are doing quite well on the table.

It is a bad crowd, but it should be remembered that it was a Monday night of a match which has been rescheduled several times. And Western United is a "Melbourne" club with no fans or home base. I am surprised it took them that long TBH.

Not close to the grassroots soccer leagues down here. But our top statewide soccer league increased by 1 team to 7 with a reintroduction of Launceston United. Football Tasmania has statewide leagues for both men's and women's soccer, both of which includes an NW team. Something AFL Tas seem incapable of doing, with the statewide womens league been canned last year and no NW team in the TSL.

I am sure Wookie has numbers for participation.
Football Tasmania 2019
38,086 total football participants1 (↑10.2%)
Over 15,000 registered Tasmanian football participants (Ausplay data)
11,668 registered outdoor players (↑5.1%)
8,068 junior players (ages 5-13) (↑6.8%)
131 community-based clubs
1,120 separate teams
https://footballfedtas.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/StateOfPlay2019.pdf


AFL Tas 2018
Overall statewide participation figures revealed growth of 6.58%, with club participation at 13,300 up 4.33% from 2017. Club teams also rose 3.63%, to 532 in 2018. Much of the growth is due to the continued rapid rise in female participation. Overall female club participation has risen 45.22% year on year, with 2520 female club participants and 93 dedicated female teams in 2018.

.
 

Rob

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on the plus side, western United can probably get away with a small stadium should the Tarneit proposal ever get off the ground.
It's funny, i've read articles talking about how the thing is already paid for (it's not). Yet if all they need is a small grandstand and a hill, and it costs $20m instead of $200m, what sort of lunatic would go for the expensive option? Irrespective of who pays for it, it's still somebody's money.
 

Kwality

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It's funny, i've read articles talking about how the thing is already paid for (it's not). Yet if all they need is a small grandstand and a hill, and it costs $20m instead of $200m, what sort of lunatic would go for the expensive option? Irrespective of who pays for it, it's still somebody's money.
At this stage its vacant land & zoning will make it more valuable long before there is a blade of grass to be seen.
 

BringBackTorps

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RA had a net loss of $27m in 2020- & states it is likely it will sell c.12.5% of RA assets/revenues etc. (inc. Wallabies) to private equity.

The NZRU has just sold 12.5% of its assets/revenues etc. (including the All Blacks) to US private equity firm Silver Lakes for AUS $361m.
It states its most urgent community need is to invest in GR teenage RU (where, in NZ, there has been a long term significant decline in jnr & snr male contact RU); & female RU (?. Female contact RU in NZ has recently had significant growth, so I'm not aware of why there is a pressing need to invest there).


Soccer & basketball have become the biggest male participant sports in NZ- soccer has been no. 1 for many years, basketball no.2 in the last 2 years.
 
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Kwality

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RA had a net loss of $27m in 2020- & states it is likely it will sell c.12.5% of RA assets (inc. Wallabies) to private equity.

The NZRU has just sold 12.5% of its assets/revenues etc. (including the All Blacks) to US private equity firm Silver Lakes for AUS $A361m.
It states its most urgent community need is to invest in GR teenage RU (where, in NZ, there has been a long term significant decline in jnr & snr male contact RU); & female RU (?. Female contact RU in NZ has recently had significant growth, so I'm not aware of why there is a pressing need to invest there).


Soccer & basketball have become the biggest participant sports in NZ- soccer has been no. 1 for many years, basketball in the last 2 years.
The old participation angle & competitive sport at the highest level. Why bother?
 

Rob

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At this stage its vacant land & zoning will make it more valuable long before there is a blade of grass to be seen.
Not sure how that's relevant to a decision to spend X on a stadium. Surely if they spend $100m less, that's an extra $100m in someone's pocket? It doesn't make the surrounding land more valuable.
 

BobbyMorri

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Not sure how that's relevant to a decision to spend X on a stadium. Surely if they spend $100m less, that's an extra $100m in someone's pocket? It doesn't make the surrounding land more valuable.
I guess if it more modern, it can stage more things and increase the land around it by having more events.......

ya think you would build one big modern stand and that's that. Would give room to expand and make the 3-5K crowds look bigger.
 

Rob

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I guess if it more modern, it can stage more things and increase the land around it by having more events.......
Maybe commercial land (restaurants, pubs and the like) but the vast majority of it is residential. And a big soccer stadium isn't going to improve residential property values. If anything it's going to devalue surrounding property, as most people would not want to live right next to a major stadium.

It really is the weirdest , most uncommercial arrangement I've ever seen in Australian sport. Nothing about it makes sense.
 

BobbyMorri

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Maybe commercial land (restaurants, pubs and the like) but the vast majority of it is residential. And a big soccer stadium isn't going to improve residential property values. If anything it's going to devalue surrounding property, as most people would not want to live right next to a major stadium.

It really is the weirdest , most uncommercial arrangement I've ever seen in Australian sport. Nothing about it makes sense.
I dont disagree.

Reckon there will be a couple of good books mentioning this whole thing in a decades time.
 

Gigantor

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Maybe commercial land (restaurants, pubs and the like) but the vast majority of it is residential. And a big soccer stadium isn't going to improve residential property values. If anything it's going to devalue surrounding property, as most people would not want to live right next to a major stadium.

It really is the weirdest , most uncommercial arrangement I've ever seen in Australian sport. Nothing about it makes sense.
I guess it only makes sense if the local council viewed the land they gave away as being almost worthless as is (it's probably true that it is so far out on the fringes of metro Melbourne that it wasn't going to get developed for a very long time).
As someone said, merely changing the zoning is enough on its own to improve the value of the land.
The owners of the WU license are actually property developers.
Like you, depending on what the actual agreement is (and clearly it ain't overly robust given the date for building keeps getting pushed out and out), it's hard not to think that if the owners of WU are property developers, they are going to go hammer and tong developing the bits of the land that bring the most profit, and will do the bare minimal amount to satisfy whatever their community obligations were.
Indeed, once everything is developed, with a soccer ground consisting of sheds and a grassy knoll, is there much incentive to spend more on the "stadium"?
Can't they just sell their A-Leagure license to someone else, even if sold at cost, they've made a killing out of the property deal.
 

Rob

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I guess it only makes sense if the local council viewed the land they gave away as being almost worthless as is (it's probably true that it is so far out on the fringes of metro Melbourne that it wasn't going to get developed for a very long time).
As someone said, merely changing the zoning is enough on its own to improve the value of the land.
The owners of the WU license are actually property developers.
Like you, depending on what the actual agreement is (and clearly it ain't overly robust given the date for building keeps getting pushed out and out), it's hard not to think that if the owners of WU are property developers, they are going to go hammer and tong developing the bits of the land that bring the most profit, and will do the bare minimal amount to satisfy whatever their community obligations were.
Indeed, once everything is developed, with a soccer ground consisting of sheds and a grassy knoll, is there much incentive to spend more on the "stadium"?
Can't they just sell their A-Leagure license to someone else, even if sold at cost, they've made a killing out of the property deal.
What's incredible was that the A-League licence was so critical to the property development in the first place. Surely the council would have preferred the $15-20m be spent on local amenities? And that's just the licence. The $200m to be spent on the stadium could make a massive difference if directed towards actual community facilities. Wouldn't that be more attractive to the council if they're going to give land away for development?

And the cherry on top is that it's virtually impossible to see how the developers were going to make the $200 million back from property sales. Even assuming a very generous $50k per block, they'd need to sell 4000 just to break even. That is a massive, massive tract of land. And the council are just giving it away? Bullshit. It doesn't add up.
 

The_Wookie

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I guess it only makes sense if the local council viewed the land they gave away as being almost worthless as is (it's probably true that it is so far out on the fringes of metro Melbourne that it wasn't going to get developed for a very long time).
As someone said, merely changing the zoning is enough on its own to improve the value of the land.
The owners of the WU license are actually property developers.
Like you, depending on what the actual agreement is (and clearly it ain't overly robust given the date for building keeps getting pushed out and out), it's hard not to think that if the owners of WU are property developers, they are going to go hammer and tong developing the bits of the land that bring the most profit, and will do the bare minimal amount to satisfy whatever their community obligations were.
Indeed, once everything is developed, with a soccer ground consisting of sheds and a grassy knoll, is there much incentive to spend more on the "stadium"?
Can't they just sell their A-Leagure license to someone else, even if sold at cost, they've made a killing out of the property deal.
Ive been told the delays are the Victorian Government holding up approvals
 

Kwality

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Not sure how that's relevant to a decision to spend X on a stadium. Surely if they spend $100m less, that's an extra $100m in someone's pocket? It doesn't make the surrounding land more valuable.
I was attempting to demonstrate how nothing appears to be happening yet the value increases.

Not sure how that's relevant to a decision to spend X on a stadium. Surely if they spend $100m less, that's an extra $100m in someone's pocket? It doesn't make the surrounding land more valuable.
We are obviously on a different page.
 

Gigantor

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And the cherry on top is that it's virtually impossible to see how the developers were going to make the $200 million back from property sales. Even assuming a very generous $50k per block, they'd need to sell 4000 just to break even. That is a massive, massive tract of land. And the council are just giving it away? Bullshit. It doesn't add up.
Yeh, I know, I've gone through the same calculations, even the most generous assumptions can't make it work.
The council insists that they (WU) will fund the stadium from profits from building and selling residential and commercial property.
 

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