Autopsy 2023 Rd 6 Misfiring Blues drop their bundle again

[ArseClown]

According to Kingy, only 4 of our goals came from general play. The other 4 from free kicks (which were there IMO), however we definitely have an issue. Would be great if the mids could give the fwds a chop out with delivery and also make us less predictable by kicking a few goals as well.

 

[SBYM]

In terms of scoring, our 6 mids have played a combined 29 games this year for 3 goals.

This.

Fix this.

FFS, someone fix this ASAFP!!!!!

 

[Stamos]

According to Kingy, only 4 of our goals came from general play. The other 4 from free kicks (which were there IMO), however we definitely have an issue. Would be great if the mids could give the fwds a chop out with delivery and also make us less predictable by kicking a few goals as well.

If the backmen didn't infringe on Charlie going for the mark it would have been 7 from general play, and 1 from the idiotic push to give Charlie the 50.

 

[Sonny Jim]

Nobody in our side is getting it lace out though. Jack has good moments but needs more good or great games. I see him as our barometer though unfortunately. He does a lot of likeable things but his kicking and brain fades cost us a lot too.

H and Charlie get the lion share of our slow highly telegraphed hail mary's inside 50's. What a huge honour they have been given by the CFC. They are also coleman medallists fighting multiple defenders because our smalls are usually off....somewhere instead of trying to crumb. Defensively they are s**t house but that's a team wide issue at the moment.

Couldn't agree more.
Isn't it absolutely ridiculous though?
Seven whole years and we still can't find a better way to kick it to any of them?

 

[Beyond Blue]

Do you think if his surname wasn't Silvagni that he would give his blood, sweat and tears the way that he does?
Holy Shitballs, what if his name was Plowman?! What would you think then!

A third forward who averages less than a goal a game is evidence enough he is not up to standard.
We all want him to succeed but after 8 seasons/100+ games as far as I’m concerned the jury is in.

So Harry is 1.99 career average and Charlie is 1.89.
Hardly anything to crow about and I wouldn't be targeting a 3rd tall for criticism when they have easily worked 2 and 3 times harder for longer in their career.

The issues lay elsewhere.

Let me know when Jack wins a Coleman medal

 

[ArseClown]

If the backmen didn't infringe on Charlie going for the mark it would have been 7 from general play, and 1 from the idiotic push to give Charlie the 50.

Yeah I agree 100% but we need other avenues to goal.

 

[Sonny Jim]

Let me know when Jack wins a Coleman medal

Kick him the ball and you'll see it for yourself sooner rather than later.

 

[Burgers45]

Every Carlton supporter wants to win. Of course we do. BUT you just can’t polish that stinking turd of a game plan.
It is beyond putrid. I watched completely stunned that any reasonable human could expect otherwise. It’s that bad. And the coaches sit in their hands and let it happen. We do nothing to change momentum and react to opposition. Lyon toyed with us on game day!
Caligula fiddled while Rome burned.
We simply must change. However Voss is as brave as he is stubborn and stupid. Bad combination. He actually justified it multiple times in the presser. Delusional.

I’ll never stop supporting Carlton. Right now it feels more like Stockholm syndrome than love.

Sorry Gez, but it ain't gonna happen anytime soon.........

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-st-kilda-defeats-carlton-saints-make-wasteful-blues-pay-in-22point-win/news-story/5ff8c27a8481909bb891b9327d50687c

 

[Sonny Jim]

Let me know when Jack wins a Coleman medal

And he'll win it as a ruckman.

 

[JustaBattler]

The midfield has very much been the problem this year.
They were killed by Richmond, North and Adelaide.

In terms of scoring, our 6 mids have played a combined 29 games this year for 3 goals.

The midfield won enough contested ball, clearances and caused enough turnovers in teh first half against St Kilda to win two games. You want them to also be the replacements for Fisher, Jack, Durdin and Motlop as well?

The midfield doesn't make teh game 'slow' - the outside players are hopeless, in particular the four missing forwards. I don't trust ANY of these blokes to make a field kick let alone not hand the ball back to the opposition 3/4 times they attempt to play their roles.

6 games in I've seen enough - couldn't care less what the running narrative has become on here regarding 'game style' - no coach can carry these weak links against better opposition - we are so predictable- because we are playing a two-man forward game - because that is all we've got.

but hey people on here can go ahead and call for a coach's head - because surely it is his 'game style' that makes these blokes turnover merchants right? It is Voss's 'game style' that forces Jack Silvagni to miss from dead in front 20 meters out - yeah? It is Voss's game style that sees Fisher ( and Jack) make ZERO tackles for the whole match against St Kilda yeah?

Yep I'm sure that Vossy is screaming at players for being too quick and accurate with their kicks.....giving the 'orders' to slow down and allow the opposition to flood their defensive fifty - or get caught out 50 meters away from forward fifty as they are wandering around like headless chooks...

Gimme a break - too many players just aren't up to matching it with better opposition - sorry my mistake- ANY opposiiton.

 

[Sonny Jim]

The midfield won enough contested ball, clearances and caused enough turnovers in teh first half against St Kilda to win two games. You want them to also be the replacements for Fisher, Jack, Durdin and Motlop as well?

I'd like to see Cerra in Fisher's position and Walsh in Cerra's.

I think it has great potential.

 

[BM123]

They had more if you count the rushed (1-3), but we actually had equal shots.

It's more that if we kicked straighter when we were well on top in the first half, the scoreboard would have changed the complexion of the game.
And then the misses in the 3rd destroyed any momentum, and allowed them to get to their winning lead.

Not getting anything out of momentum sucks but I think the deciding factor has more to do with us not been prepared/willing to play for 4 quarters in the first place. Saints whole mentality for the first half was they just need to be close at half time and we'll roll over. They stated that publicly in a kinder way than I did but it's startingly that opposition teams plan around our poor work rate. Wonder if Voss is harsh enough to let his players know that.

We don't get much reward for effort and we don't put in much effort.

 

[SBYM]

The midfield won enough contested ball, clearances and caused enough turnovers in teh first half against St Kilda to win two games. You want them to also be the replacements for Fisher, Jack, Durdin and Motlop as well?

The midfield doesn't make teh game 'slow' - the outside players are hopeless, in particular the four missing forwards. I don't trust ANY of these blokes to make a field kick let alone not hand the ball back to the opposition 3/4 times they attempt to play their roles.

6 games in I've seen enough - couldn't care less what the running narrative has become on here regarding 'game style' - no coach can carry these weak links against better opposition - we are so predictable- because we are playing a two-man forward game - because that is all we've got.

but hey people on here can go ahead and call for a coach's head - because surely it is his 'game style' that makes these blokes turnover merchants right? It is Voss's 'game style' that forces Jack Silvagni to miss from dead in front 20 meters out - yeah? It is Voss's game style that sees Fisher ( and Jack) make ZERO tackles for the whole match against St Kilda yeah?

Yep I'm sure that Vossy is screaming at players for being too quick and accurate with their kicks.....giving the 'orders' to slow down and allow the opposition to flood their defensive fifty - or get caught out 50 meters away from forward fifty as they are wandering around like headless chooks...

Gimme a break - too many players just aren't up to matching it with better opposition - sorry my mistake- ANY opposiiton.

I don't disagree with a single word of this, but I do think that more goals from the mids is a crucial part of the solution.

 

[Stamos]

The midfield won enough contested ball, clearances and caused enough turnovers in teh first half against St Kilda to win two games. You want them to also be the replacements for Fisher, Jack, Durdin and Motlop as well?

The midfield doesn't make teh game 'slow' - the outside players are hopeless, in particular the four missing forwards. I don't trust ANY of these blokes to make a field kick let alone not hand the ball back to the opposition 3/4 times they attempt to play their roles.

6 games in I've seen enough - couldn't care less what the running narrative has become on here regarding 'game style' - no coach can carry these weak links against better opposition - we are so predictable- because we are playing a two-man forward game - because that is all we've got.

but hey people on here can go ahead and call for a coach's head - because surely it is his 'game style' that makes these blokes turnover merchants right? It is Voss's 'game style' that forces Jack Silvagni to miss from dead in front 20 meters out - yeah? It is Voss's game style that sees Fisher ( and Jack) make ZERO tackles for the whole match against St Kilda yeah?

Yep I'm sure that Vossy is screaming at players for being too quick and accurate with their kicks.....giving the 'orders' to slow down and allow the opposition to flood their defensive fifty - or get caught out 50 meters away from forward fifty as they are wandering around like headless chooks...

Gimme a break - too many players just aren't up to matching it with better opposition - sorry my mistake- ANY opposiiton.

The mids were certainly better against the Saints (well not Ed, and Kennedy was in the backline), but they have not been at that level across the other 5 games. And absolutely you can blame the midfield for going slow, and not kicking it well inside 50.

The forwards were definitely poor on Sunday, and yet you seem stuck on the games of 2 of the better ones. Fish had 7 score involvements (equal 3rd for us). Jack was one of only 2 of our players to kick multiple goals.

 

[Stamos]

Not getting anything out of momentum sucks but I think the deciding factor has more to do with us not been prepared/willing to play for 4 quarters in the first place. Saints whole mentality for the first half was they just need to be close at half time and we'll roll over. They stated that publicly in a kinder way than I did but it's startingly that opposition teams plan around our poor work rate. Wonder if Voss is harsh enough to let his players know that.

We don't get much reward for effort and we don't put in much effort.

And yet the Saints were only close at half time due to our poor conversion.

 

[JustaBattler]

I don't disagree with a single word of this, but I do think that more goals from the mids is a crucial part of the solution.

That's cherry on top mate - our forward line is bottom 4 in the competition as far as ability goes - because we are playing two forwards against 8 defenders most of the time.

 

[JustaBattler]

The mids were certainly better against the Saints (well not Ed, and Kennedy was in the backline), but they have not been at that level across the other 5 games. And absolutely you can blame the midfield for going slow, and not kicking it well inside 50.

The forwards were definitely poor on Sunday, and yet you seem stuck on the games of 2 of the better ones. Fish had 7 score involvements (equal 3rd for us). Jack was one of only 2 of our players to kick multiple goals.

I'm referencing the whole year Stamos. The St Kilda game was ridiculous- the midfield combined to absolutely smash St Kilda - winning enough ball to have the game over by half time - instead Carlton goes in with a 2 point lead. Enough is enough referencing game style or blaming mids - it is sub standard players week in week out- all in the same position - the forward lines.

 

[Stamos]

I'm referencing the whole year Stamos. The St Kilda game was ridiculous- the midfield combined to absolutely smash St Kilda - winning enough ball to have the game over by half time - instead Carlton goes in with a 2 point lead. Enough is enough referencing game style or blaming mids - it is sub standard players week in week out- all in the same position - the forward lines.

That's a myopic, and frankly incorrect, view.
Richmond smashed our midfield. Our defence, and our forwards stood up to manage a draw.
Our mids were beaten by North, Geelong, and smashed by Adelaide.

So our mids have won in 2 out of 6 games.
And they're not helping out the forwards by hitting the scoreboard either.

 

[Burgers45]

That's cherry on top mate - our forward line is bottom 4 in the competition as far as ability goes - because we are playing two forwards against 8 defenders most of the time.

I think it's a fallacy that our small forwards apply great pressure. They also don't get enough of it. How can you kick or assist in goals if you rarely get a touch? Up until 5 minutes before 1/2 time, Mots hadn't had a possession. I know it's a difficult position to play, and the're young and still learning, and it may still come, but they don't seem to position themselves properly at the fall of the ball at forward marking contests. What about getting Eddie back down there with these guys. Whatever Hansen is instructing these smalls is not working very well. Where is the proper development and natural improvement? Oh for a player like a Kossie, or similar, but they are hard to find.

 

[JustaBattler]

That's a myopic, and frankly incorrect, view.
Richmond smashed our midfield. Our defence, and our forwards stood up to manage a draw.
Our mids were beaten by North, Geelong, and smashed by Adelaide.

So our mids have won in 2 out of 6 games.
And they're not helping out the forwards by hitting the scoreboard either.

You have avoided the guts of what I'm saying Stamos, I'm referencing Carlton's weak links - we are playing games with two forwards and four nothings - every week. Yes the Carlton midfield hasn't been as good for every game as it could have been - but the forward line has been Shyte - all year. The St Kilda game want lost by the midfield- finals weren't missed because of Carlton's midfield last year either.

Opposition coaches have no fear of stacking defenders all on Charlie and Harry - because there is no one else at Carltron that is the vaguest of threat to them.

 

[SpiritOfCarlton]

Just my two cents.

Season so far:

First four rounds: Somehow found a way to win or draw despite not getting the ball
Round 5: Blown out of the park as sacrificial lambs to the alter of gather round (hopefully last time and new lambs next year)
Round 6: First game of the year where we found a way to lose after getting the ball (obviously this needs to be avoided again at all costs)

Certainly no time to panic just yet.

 

[Stamos]

You have avoided the guts of what I'm saying Stamos, I'm referencing Carlton's weak links - we are playing games with two forwards and four nothings - every week. Yes the Carlton midfield hasn't been as good for every game as it could have been - but the forward line has been Shyte - all year. The St Kilda game want lost by the midfield- finals weren't missed because of Carlton's midfield last year either.

Opposition coaches have no fear of stacking defenders all on Charlie and Harry - because there is no one else at Carltron that is the vaguest of threat to them.

But the forwardline hasn't been the weak link every week.
The St Kilda game was an outlier for us in the first 6 weeks.

 

[My Hat]

what do you think about jsos career goal average of 0.73?

do you think it stacks up when compared to other third talls whom mostly range 1-1.5 ?

i think it is clear that he and some of our other forwards need to kick more goals.

kicking 2 over the weekend was great. but he needs to do it more often wouldnt you agree?

Yes, I do think he needs to do it more often. If the gist of the comments this week were 'two goals is good but he needs to do it more often', I'd have no complaints on the matter. But that hasn't been the case, wouldn't you agree?

He kicked 2 goals 3 behinds. Sunday was his time to step up and he failed to take it - unsurprising given he has never kicked more than 3 goals in a game nor has he kicked more than 20 goals in a season - he is bog average for a third forward and I’m sure if his surname wasn’t Silvagni this board would be baying for his blood.

The board would be baying for his blood? Have you read the last 40+ pages of this thread?? The board is baying for his blood, and they're making gratuitous comments about his surname while they do it.

 

[BM123]

And yet the Saints were only close at half time due to our poor conversion.

We still only played a half in the end anyway. We had opportunities to gain a bigger lead sure but I still doubt we can win coasting through the 2nd half.

Like last year we would be 8 goals ahead then win by under a goal or get overrun. Now we couldn't even convert a proper lead against the Saints and you believe we'd hold on for a whole half? If the players aren't working hard to take back the lead in the third then what makes you think they'll work at all to keep it?

I'd rather we lose or win playing 4 average quarters then relying on the first half. Because we just gave up once they got the lead. Saints got to coast for a whole quarter. A whole quarter we could've tried to steal the win.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

The one thing we lack is a player or two that has been around a long time.
Hard edged proffesional footballers.
We have a lot of enthusiasm and plenty of talent but seriously every one of them is still learning the caper of week to week grit.

Agree -/ you put a Luke bruest Jamie Elliot Liam Ryan even a Jamie cripps type player in our fwd line we would rain goals