Autopsy 2023 Rd 6 Misfiring Blues drop their bundle again

[BM123]

Forward line would appreciate some decent ball movement though.

I can see Motlop raw as he is still kicking far more goals if he wasn't sharing the f50 with the entire stadium. Honestly our f50 is so packed we'd could play wheres Waldo in it.

 

[RedFury]

Agree -/ you put a Luke bruest Jamie Elliot Liam Ryan even a Jamie cripps type player in our fwd line we would rain goals

Tom Papley anyone?

 

[Shambolic]

I watched the game again. Two key takeaways

- plan was effective mostly other than when at kilda took the ascendancy. We panicked in the last but methodical approach was working well

- what blew it was successive goal kicking failures and goal options. The obvious ones are the misses by Cripps and McKay and sos but we also failed to give off to moving options. This is unacceptable


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

I watched the game again. Two key takeaways

- plan was effective mostly other than when at kilda took the ascendancy. We panicked in the last but methodical approach was working well

- what blew it was successive goal kicking failures and goal options. The obvious ones are the misses by Cripps and McKay and sos but we also failed to give off to moving options. This is unacceptable


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Can't agree.

Why make it a constant arm wrestle when you don't need to....

You win in most sports by playing to your strengths, not by trying to minimise the effect of your weaknesses.

Watch the Pies' last quarter yesterday - compare to our last quarter!

 

[charred_fate]

Odd that anyone would think it’s just one issue that needs fixing.

Have been hearing the same thing for years.

 

[Juddrockz]

You have avoided the guts of what I'm saying Stamos, I'm referencing Carlton's weak links - we are playing games with two forwards and four nothings - every week. Yes the Carlton midfield hasn't been as good for every game as it could have been - but the forward line has been Shyte - all year. The St Kilda game want lost by the midfield- finals weren't missed because of Carlton's midfield last year either.

Opposition coaches have no fear of stacking defenders all on Charlie and Harry - because there is no one else at Carltron that is the vaguest of threat to them.

I agree,the mids are letting us down so far this year. The twin towers arent getting help at all either from our mids kicking goals or our smalls getting caught up the ground,which happens every game,leaving every oppostion defender on H an C. The smalls should plonk their butts in the forward 50 and not move out of that area.Make others accountable further up the ground.
Atm we're carrying 3 or 4 players into each game that give absolutely nothing,just shouldn't be allowed to happen.

 

[Aphrodite]

Or rushed behinds maybe?
Plus didn't one of their goals come off Cowan's boot but there was no review?

That as well.

Us - 1 rushed behind

Them - 3 rushed behinds

 

[Moon]

Watch the Pies' last quarter yesterday - compare to our last quarter!

Voss should give each Carlton player a copy of Collingwood's last quarter with the message - 'This is the footy you need to play to win Premierships' As much as I hate to say it _ ... they are an awesome team playing incredible footy. Carlton are so far off the standard that Collingwood plays. It pains me to say that ... only it is true.

 

[Blue and Blue]

Voss should give each Carlton player a copy of Collingwood's last quarter with the message - 'This is the footy you need to play to win Premierships' As much as I hate to say it _ ... they are an awesome team playing incredible footy. Carlton are so far off the standard that Collingwood plays. It pains me to say that ... only it is true.

Dont come here claiming truth, it will never work ha ha

Besides....The only truth is this
Collingwood are s**t and we are great, repeat it 3 times before bed every night and give thanks that at least we have teeth to brush.

Oh ye of little faith....Amen.........

 

[branedotorg]

Kick him the ball and you'll see it for yourself sooner rather than later.

i simply don't believe that if Jack was the primary target he could win the coleman.

love his effort and footy smarts, (under)whelmed by everything else, including marking and kicking at goal

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Voss should give each Carlton player a copy of Collingwood's last quarter with the message - 'This is the footy you need to play to win Premierships' As much as I hate to say it _ ... they are an awesome team playing incredible footy. Carlton are so far off the standard that Collingwood plays. It pains me to say that ... only it is true.

Pies were gifted probably the best young player since Judd and an All Australian wingman via father son. Without these 2 I dont think we would be talking about Collingwood as a contender.

 

[TENACIOUS]

Yes, Charlie and Harry’s goal kicking, has been poor at times…

But, I’m not convinced we’d even score without them…

 

[Christou2Kouta]

Voss has betrayed himself in coaching this team.

We needed a fierce prick who would instil standards, make hard calls, put fear into our players and make them all accountable. We needed the same character he was as a player.

Unfortunately what we've got is a coach that has bought into the millenial new age molly-coddling technique of man management, and that is not doing anything for the meek playing group that Stephen Silvagni assembled for us.

And if you want to challenge me on the SOS comment: take a look at the difference with how Cowan and Hollands attack the game versus anybody recruited during the SOS era (with the exception of Sam Walsh, exclusively)

You don't need to be a pr!ck to convey clear standards of play and hold players accountable to those standards.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Pies were gifted probably the best young player since Judd and an All Australian wingman via father son. Without these 2 I dont think we would be talking about Collingwood as a contender.

Yep - the Daicos boys are a gift from God. Nick is the best player in the game.

 

[Blue and Blue]

Voss has betrayed himself in coaching this team.

We needed a fierce prick who would instil standards, make hard calls, put fear into our players and make them all accountable. We needed the same character he was as a player.

Unfortunately what we've got is a coach that has bought into the millenial new age molly-coddling technique of man management, and that is not doing anything for the meek playing group that Stephen Silvagni assembled for us.

And if you want to challenge me on the SOS comment: take a look at the difference with how Cowan and Hollands attack the game versus anybody recruited during the SOS era (with the exception of Sam Walsh, exclusively)

Ermmmmm maybe Hollands and Cowan attack the game because Voss is coach. Can't have it both ways Cookie.

Also cant be taken serious when your driven more by anti Silvagni agenda than facts.
Time to move on from that mate.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Voss has betrayed himself in coaching this team.

We needed a fierce prick who would instil standards, make hard calls, put fear into our players and make them all accountable. We needed the same character he was as a player.

Unfortunately what we've got is a coach that has bought into the millenial new age molly-coddling technique of man management, and that is not doing anything for the meek playing group that Stephen Silvagni assembled for us.

Yes - I would like to see a bit more straight talking in the press conference like 'missing goals' rather than 'nourishment' and 'we are just bombing it long' rather than 'our efficiency is letting us down in our front half).

I'm OK with him sticking up for his players despite the foamers on here - that's what a coach should do.

 

[lilJeffyG]

Yep - the Daicos boys are a gift from God. Nick is the best player in the game.

He's great at what he does and would complement our midfield beautifully, cause he would never be out with a contact injury, skills and decision making definitely his best traits.

 

[Blue Chip Pass]

The midfield won enough contested ball, clearances and caused enough turnovers in teh first half against St Kilda to win two games. You want them to also be the replacements for Fisher, Jack, Durdin and Motlop as well?

The midfield doesn't make teh game 'slow' - the outside players are hopeless, in particular the four missing forwards. I don't trust ANY of these blokes to make a field kick let alone not hand the ball back to the opposition 3/4 times they attempt to play their roles.

6 games in I've seen enough - couldn't care less what the running narrative has become on here regarding 'game style' - no coach can carry these weak links against better opposition - we are so predictable- because we are playing a two-man forward game - because that is all we've got.

but hey people on here can go ahead and call for a coach's head - because surely it is his 'game style' that makes these blokes turnover merchants right? It is Voss's 'game style' that forces Jack Silvagni to miss from dead in front 20 meters out - yeah? It is Voss's game style that sees Fisher ( and Jack) make ZERO tackles for the whole match against St Kilda yeah?

Yep I'm sure that Vossy is screaming at players for being too quick and accurate with their kicks.....giving the 'orders' to slow down and allow the opposition to flood their defensive fifty - or get caught out 50 meters away from forward fifty as they are wandering around like headless chooks...

Gimme a break - too many players just aren't up to matching it with better opposition - sorry my mistake- ANY opposiiton.

I was at the game. You have summed up exactly my observations. Was very sad and depressing to witness.
Our foot skills are so below par. And pressure is non existent.
St Kilda on the other hand totally choked us with pressure.
That we didn't record one run and bounce for the whole game, tells you something is very wrong.

 

[Vo Rogue]

The midfield won enough contested ball, clearances and caused enough turnovers in teh first half against St Kilda to win two games. You want them to also be the replacements for Fisher, Jack, Durdin and Motlop as well?

The midfield doesn't make teh game 'slow' - the outside players are hopeless, in particular the four missing forwards. I don't trust ANY of these blokes to make a field kick let alone not hand the ball back to the opposition 3/4 times they attempt to play their roles.

6 games in I've seen enough - couldn't care less what the running narrative has become on here regarding 'game style' - no coach can carry these weak links against better opposition - we are so predictable- because we are playing a two-man forward game - because that is all we've got.

but hey people on here can go ahead and call for a coach's head - because surely it is his 'game style' that makes these blokes turnover merchants right? It is Voss's 'game style' that forces Jack Silvagni to miss from dead in front 20 meters out - yeah? It is Voss's game style that sees Fisher ( and Jack) make ZERO tackles for the whole match against St Kilda yeah?

Yep I'm sure that Vossy is screaming at players for being too quick and accurate with their kicks.....giving the 'orders' to slow down and allow the opposition to flood their defensive fifty - or get caught out 50 meters away from forward fifty as they are wandering around like headless chooks...

Gimme a break - too many players just aren't up to matching it with better opposition - sorry my mistake- ANY opposiiton.

Agree with this, but we've had 12 months to sort through the current list and didn't make any adjustments. We gave O'Brien a 2 year extension. That is on Voss.

 

[Gez1969]

Last time I checked there are 6 players on the ground at any given pint whose primary role is to be a forward.
They should compete for the ball in the forward half of the ground and work together to kick goals.
When we don't have it, they should make it as hard as possible for the opposition to get clean ball going their way. Pressure and work-rate are critical. We rarely do it. Opposition routinely walk it out to the wing. We coral, peel off and effectively escort them. Madness!
It really shouldn’t matter who kicks the goals, be it tall, mid or small forwards or a mid-fielder streaming forward - hell, perish the thought that a ruck may slide forward and contribute.
How many goals do we have from mids, three - only 3 in 6 full games!
Our static predictable and poorly executed ball movement means that we routinely miss opportunities by having to kick to outnumbered talls, our own talls competing for the same ball and resultant congestion and chaos. There is NO structure, no guile, craft or method. If the idea is to bet on your tall targets being able to win contests at very least kick it to their advantage. Its kick and hope!
We stuff around with it, give the opposition a chance to flood back and then bomb long and wide to targets. It’s a very low percentage strategy that contributes to inaccuracy. The low scoring aspect of our game adds pressure. So few chances, DONT MISS THIS... DONT MISS THIS... a bit like a golfer hitting over water, thinking: don't hit it in the water... oh sh!t!

Consider this we are:

Ranked 15th in Points Per Game

Ranked 14th in Tackles Per Game

Ranked 14th in Inside 50s Per Game

Ranked 17th in Goal Assists Per Game

Ranked 15th in least Opponent Inside 50s Per Game

Ranked 16th in Team to Opponent Goal Assists Per Game Diff.

Ranked 15th in least Opponent Inside 50s Per Game

That’s just a snapshot there are more:

Ref: Carlton Blues Football Club AFL Statistics Home Page

Relative to our talent/list we are the worst performing team in the AFL.

This just has to change and quickly.

 

[charred_fate]

Last time I checked there are 6 players on the ground at any given pint whose primary role is to be a forward.
They should compete for the ball in the forward half of the ground and work together to kick goals.
When we don't have it, they should make it as hard as possible for the opposition to get clean ball going their way. Pressure and work-rate are critical. We rarely do it. Opposition routinely walk it out to the wing. We coral, peel off and effectively escort them. Madness!
It really shouldn’t matter who kicks the goals, be it tall, mid or small forwards or a mid-fielder streaming forward - hell, perish the thought that a ruck may slide forward and contribute.
How many goals do we have from mids, three - only 3 in 6 full games!
Our static predictable and poorly executed ball movement means that we routinely miss opportunities by having to kick to outnumbered talls, our own talls competing for the same ball and resultant congestion and chaos. There is NO structure, no guile, craft or method. If the idea is to bet on your tall targets being able to win contests at very least kick it to their advantage. Its kick and hope!
We stuff around with it, give the opposition a chance to flood back and then bomb long and wide to targets. It’s a very low percentage strategy that contributes to inaccuracy. The low scoring aspect of our game adds pressure. So few chances, DONT MISS THIS... DONT MISS THIS... a bit like a golfer hitting over water, thinking: don't hit it in the water... oh sh!t!

Consider this we are:

Ranked 15th in Points Per Game

Ranked 14th in Tackles Per Game

Ranked 14th in Inside 50s Per Game

Ranked 17th in Goal Assists Per Game

Ranked 15th in least Opponent Inside 50s Per Game

Ranked 16th in Team to Opponent Goal Assists Per Game Diff.

Ranked 15th in least Opponent Inside 50s Per Game

That’s just a snapshot there are more:

Ref: Carlton Blues Football Club AFL Statistics Home Page

Relative to our talent/list we are the worst performing team in the AFL.

This just has to change and quickly.

Remember when a lot of us could see it even in the games we were winning, including last year, but were criticised for trying to discuss it …

 

[JustaBattler]

Last time I checked there are 6 players on the ground at any given pint whose primary role is to be a forward.
They should compete for the ball in the forward half of the ground and work together to kick goals.
When we don't have it, they should make it as hard as possible for the opposition to get clean ball going their way. Pressure and work-rate are critical. We rarely do it. Opposition routinely walk it out to the wing. We coral, peel off and effectively escort them. Madness!
It really shouldn’t matter who kicks the goals, be it tall, mid or small forwards or a mid-fielder streaming forward - hell, perish the thought that a ruck may slide forward and contribute.
How many goals do we have from mids, three - only 3 in 6 full games!
Our static predictable and poorly executed ball movement means that we routinely miss opportunities by having to kick to outnumbered talls, our own talls competing for the same ball and resultant congestion and chaos. There is NO structure, no guile, craft or method. If the idea is to bet on your tall targets being able to win contests at very least kick it to their advantage. Its kick and hope!
We stuff around with it, give the opposition a chance to flood back and then bomb long and wide to targets. It’s a very low percentage strategy that contributes to inaccuracy. The low scoring aspect of our game adds pressure. So few chances, DONT MISS THIS... DONT MISS THIS... a bit like a golfer hitting over water, thinking: don't hit it in the water... oh sh!t!

Consider this we are:

Ranked 15th in Points Per Game

Ranked 14th in Tackles Per Game

Ranked 14th in Inside 50s Per Game

Ranked 17th in Goal Assists Per Game

Ranked 15th in least Opponent Inside 50s Per Game

Ranked 16th in Team to Opponent Goal Assists Per Game Diff.

Ranked 15th in least Opponent Inside 50s Per Game

That’s just a snapshot there are more:

Ref: Carlton Blues Football Club AFL Statistics Home Page

Relative to our talent/list we are the worst performing team in the AFL.

This just has to change and quickly.

Thanks for the stat references - confirms how abysmal the forward part of Carlton' game has been - all year. Underlines the sad fact that as a front 6-7 players they are bottom 4 ish in performance. The rgame apart from incredible athletic acts from Charlie and Harry always double or triple teamed is NOT AFL standard let alone finals quality.

The slow/hesitant crablike play is not tempo management - it is more about no system to enter the forward 50 to advantage because there is no system or structure to that part of the ground. Every team bombs the ball in - but only after the whole team is set up to cover rebound and defend territory - Carlton transiiton play is an embarasment - partly coaching - but in the main - pathetic skills - esepcially from flankers from wing to HFF.

I hope the penny has dropped because some eeven on her ehve been making the point one way or another all year and prior even - resest required. The way thsi team is currently set up in the forward half is a joke on the team and its supporters.

 

[Bletch]

The midfield has very much been the problem this year.
They were killed by Richmond, North and Adelaide.

In terms of scoring, our 6 mids have played a combined 29 games this year for 3 goals.

First 6 rounds '22 - Cripps 10 goals
First 6 rounds '23 - Cripps 0 goals

It's not just him, but the lack of scoring from our mids is a huge issue.

 

[Arr0w]

Differentials are a better indicator than averages

 

[Ezayyak]

The comments of if we kicked straight we would have won. That's possibly true but the issue is much deeper than goal kicking. It's out inability to move the ball from one end of the ground to the other in a systematic way. We do it more through individual brilliance.

When you watch a team like St Kilda do it you see a system, you can actually see the play unfold and the players that will be involved in the linkage. It is very rare we go end to end like this.

We hardly every hit players on a lead. There are no holes inside 50 that players instinctively know to run into it. We have no players front and centre of a pack inside 50. How many times did St Kilda have that? 2 players square front on of a forward 50 fifty contest. They have at least 4 shots come by this manner.

We have major problems, if we don't win a clear contested ball and find our forwards on the first attempt, the ball is long gone and in our defence withing seconds.