List Mgmt. 2023 Trade & List Management Thread

[King Corey]

Edit: will update if ppl happy for this to sticky

Ok starting the hit list of names mentioned in any rumour as linked to us for 2023 trade period.

• Mac Andrew
• Hunter Clark
• Zac Fisher
• Sam Flanders
• Mitch Georgiades
• Liam Henry
• Dougal Howard
• Lewis Melican
• Jack Silvagni
• Dylan Stephens
• Adam Tomlinson

 

[Lomas]

Nice to see some reasonable approaches to misunderstandings here.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

Wouldn’t have a clue some weeks macrae will play Midfield next on the wing He is still having a decent year. We have a coach that loves throwing the magnets around

And his %TOG seems to have dropped as much as 10% some weeks? Like somewhere in the 70% range when normally he would be 85 -90%? Or am i imagining things?

 

[Bulldogs85]

And his %TOG seems to have dropped as much as 10% some weeks? Like somewhere in the 70% range when normally he would be 85 -90%? Or am i imagining things?

No you haven’t imagined things

 

[Pres]

Mannagh went through all the development pathways, but was always on the fringe of getting drafted. Played in the Bush leagues for a few years because he thought his AFL dream was over. Decided to give it one last crack with Werribee and has gone from strength to strength over the last two years. Has a s**t tonne of upside.

I sat next to a Werribee old timer at the Port Melbourne game and he told me Mannagh was with Richmond at one point.

Maybe he never made the official list?

 

[Mr north man]

Just curious
why haven’t they been drafted? ->
Ethan Phillips (VFL)
Shaun Mannagh (VFL),
Kye Declase (VFL),
Ryley Stoddart (VFL),
Casey Voss (SANFL)

What currency do we have to get and is it enough to get:
Ned Moyle
Wade Derksen
Jake Riccardi
Caleb Graham

Sellers from what iv seen should be on the list same goes for Keogh both are a massive upgrade on Edwards.

 

[HTPunter]

You can’t turn over 17 blokes who can’t kick, aren’t physically up to it, or have no game sense in 1 pre season so we’ve got at least 2-3 more years of this s**t.

Bonar, Mahony, Spicer, Cunnington, Ziebell, Hall, Turner, Edwards, CCJ, Dawson, Drury, Howe, Lazzaro, Young, Greenwood, Corr, Perez, McDonald

None of them are (now, or won’t be) genuine good AFL players.

That’s not forgetting that we’ve got some who are still not guaranteed to make it (Powell, Hansen, Free, Bergman, Archer, Phillips) or are very old so might jump the exit queue (Goldstein) or are out the door (McKay).

only a matter of time before the playing list revolts though when Clarko sprays them over VAFA level skills as they * another switch or give another 50cm handball to a standing still player.

We’d want a ******* plan to get Bont, Curnow & Moore to change this around soon.

 

[Shermanator]

We’d want a ******* plan to get Bont, Curnow & Moore to change this around soon.

It's call savvy recruiting and top tier development, which funnily enough we're the worst in the comp at doing..

Time to spend our so called war chest on the BEST personnel in the business.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Yes, but if he becomes disgruntled with his current role, he can still request to be traded. But you know that already of course.

I'd be less surprised to hear that we'd made an offer for his brother.

 

[kool kangas]

So we have Goldy who is getting on in years but still our best ruckman. Xerri who might be a good ruckman some day but not just yet, CCJ who the club wants to play as a 2nd ruck and part time forward and Edwards who just hasn't developed to what people think he should have. So to fill in the void between Goldy and Xerri what about going after Grundy. He wont become 1st ruck while Gawn is there and is a ruckman not a key forward so he might be playing games in the VFL for awhile. As the Pies are paying around $250K of his salary to the Dees maybe we could offer the Dees something that would entice them to part with him. He would be worth something reasonable in a pick , maybe our second pick but l'm not sure what for sure..

 

[amaz199]

I honestly reckon, the minute we've said goodbye to senior players not up to it (especially those in the leadership group) the better we will be.

There's just so many things wrong with standards and it's making us look much worse.

As an example, Goater's first kick in his debut was an absolute bullet into the middle. He won't take that kick now since his more experienced teammates haven't got his back.

This is really the main issue before drafting and trading comes into play.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

I sat next to a Werribee old timer at the Port Melbourne game and he told me Mannagh was with Richmond at one point.

Maybe he never made the official list?

He was, but only played a few games. The vast majority of that year he played in the ovens and Murray league.

 

[Themanbun]

I honestly reckon, the minute we've said goodbye to senior players not up to it (especially those in the leadership group) the better we will be.

There's just so many things wrong with standards and it's making us look much worse.

As an example, Goater's first kick in his debut was an absolute bullet into the middle. He won't take that kick now since his more experienced teammates haven't got his back.

This is really the main issue before drafting and trading comes into play.

Side note, this is why I liked the role Hall was playing. Yeah he ****ed up more than we liked but he kept biting off ambitious kicks even after ******* up. That's what the kids needed to see, rather than conservative punts down the line.

 

[Lomas]

Side note, this is why I liked the role Hall was playing. Yeah he ed up more than we liked but he kept biting off ambitious kicks even after *** up. That's what the kids needed to see, rather than conservative punts down the line.

In the first half of the VFL Hall made some good kicks, along with some not so good. The good ones seemed to go to Laz mostly, who provided a good target in the middle. Good options seem to lead to good kicks, who would have thought!

 

[Themanbun]

In the first half of the VFL Hall made some good kicks, along with some not so good. The good ones seemed to go to Laz mostly, who provided a good target in the middle. Good options seem to lead to good kicks, who would have thought!

Yep. I think we showed early this year a lot of our blokes have the skill. They're just not executing due to either mental state, structure ahead of the ball, or both.

 

[ferball]

Side note, this is why I liked the role Hall was playing. Yeah he ed up more than we liked but he kept biting off ambitious kicks even after *** up. That's what the kids needed to see, rather than conservative punts down the line.

I did agree with you but in that last game last year Goater and Perez looked brilliant together and I was pretty much done on Hall at that moment. Perez not playing has been disappointing but I thought his game against Geelong was okay once they'd settled after half time.

 

[tazaa]

2023 Departures - Ziebell, Goldstein, Cunnington, Perez, Hall, Bonar, Mahony, Spicer, Young, Turner (r), Howe (r) Edwards (r). This is 12 players moving on. Without any doubt. Helps that 3 of them are rookies but its still significant. Its 12 gone and 12 replacements coming in who unless we get some really good free agents (unlikely) how are we going to replace this level of exits?
Again this doesn't factor in McKay leaving but thankfully we should get a top 20 pick for him. Shiels may retire also. Free may go home to WA. Greenwood could go into coaching. Drury/Dawson do they move on or stay? Ideally outside of the first 12 mentioned it should be a goal that we secure deals for the rest IMO.

Potential 2024 Departures - Taylor, Lazzaro are out of contract and then we have legit unknowns in Powell, Harvey, Archer and Hansen Jr. Its almost a requirement that 4 of these guys need to make it as AFL footballers. If not we ain't going to be moving up the ladder at any rate.

Beyond that we've got Xerri with a deal for 2025. CCJ with a deal for 2025. Corr with a deal for 2025. McDonald with a deal for 2026. Just so much deadwood which is why a priority pick package with top end talent is not only needed but without it were going to be stuck in mediocrity forever.

 

[shintemaster]

Phillips isn’t the best athlete. I’d imagine clubs would have concerns about his mobility. He more than makes up for it with elite footy IQ and ability to intercept.

Mannagh went through all the development pathways, but was always on the fringe of getting drafted. Played in the Bush leagues for a few years because he thought his AFL dream was over. Decided to give it one last crack with Werribee and has gone from strength to strength over the last two years. Has a s**t tonne of upside.

Declase spent 6 months on Melbournes list in 2020 as a mid season pick but only managed a couple of games in the VFL because the season was covid impacted. Age probably a factor now (26) but he is such a unique player.

Stoddart spent 2 years on Sydney’s list but hardly fired a shot because of injury. Has added some bulk and is injury free now and has had two really solid years at VFL level.

Voss has been one of the best state league players for the last two years. Doesn’t strike me as the best athlete but more than makes up for it with his positioning and natural footy IQ.

Ned Moyle - Future 3rd
Wade Derksen - Token late pick
Jake Riccardi - OOC PSD?
Caleb Graham - 3rd rounder (signed a 4 year deal and GC desperately need list space)

I'm not necessarily on a VFL top up bandwagon as picks however I would 100% be arguing that whilst waiting for new draft picks to come on we should have access to sign 4+ VFL players outside the draft and list restrictions - a la the mid season draft - in an attempt to get us more competitive in the short term. AFL should be all over that and on paper at least it probably doesn't ruffle too many feathers amongst the clubs.

None of this at the expense of proper priority picks and draftees mind.

 

[viccles]

Club should try and convince Shiels to stay for a year. Maybe Goldy. Cunners and Ziebs to retire

 

[shintemaster]

Side note, this is why I liked the role Hall was playing. Yeah he ed up more than we liked but he kept biting off ambitious kicks even after *** up. That's what the kids needed to see, rather than conservative punts down the line.

Same reason I was very supportive of Hall for a long time. People lambasted him for missing kicks while every other player on that backline simply refused to do anything other than switch, kick down the line or cough the ball up.

That said I think he's physically not fit enough now so ship appears to have sailed either way.

I did agree with you but in that last game last year Goater and Perez looked brilliant together and I was pretty much done on Hall at that moment. Perez not playing has been disappointing but I thought his game against Geelong was okay once they'd settled after half time.

He's cooked now I reckon but yeah agree.

 

[Themanbun]

Same reason I was very supportive of Hall for a long time. People lambasted him for missing kicks while every other player on that backline simply refused to do anything other than switch, kick down the line or cough the ball up.

That said I think he's physically not fit enough now so ship appears to have sailed either way.

Yeah agree with both you and Ferbs that his time has passed now

 

[shinboner magic]

Phillips isn’t the best athlete. I’d imagine clubs would have concerns about his mobility. He more than makes up for it with elite footy IQ and ability to intercept.

Mannagh went through all the development pathways, but was always on the fringe of getting drafted. Played in the Bush leagues for a few years because he thought his AFL dream was over. Decided to give it one last crack with Werribee and has gone from strength to strength over the last two years. Has a s**t tonne of upside.

Declase spent 6 months on Melbournes list in 2020 as a mid season pick but only managed a couple of games in the VFL because the season was covid impacted. Age probably a factor now (26) but he is such a unique player.

Stoddart spent 2 years on Sydney’s list but hardly fired a shot because of injury. Has added some bulk and is injury free now and has had two really solid years at VFL level.

Voss has been one of the best state league players for the last two years. Doesn’t strike me as the best athlete but more than makes up for it with his positioning and natural footy IQ.

Ned Moyle - Future 3rd
Wade Derksen - Token late pick
Jake Riccardi - OOC PSD?
Caleb Graham - 3rd rounder (signed a 4 year deal and GC desperately need list space)

You can’t turn over 17 blokes who can’t kick, aren’t physically up to it, or have no game sense in 1 pre season so we’ve got at least 2-3 more years of this s**t.

Bonar, Mahony, Spicer, Cunnington, Ziebell, Hall, Turner, Edwards, CCJ, Dawson, Drury, Howe, Lazzaro, Young, Greenwood, Corr, Perez, McDonald

None of them are (now, or won’t be) genuine good AFL players.

That’s not forgetting that we’ve got some who are still not guaranteed to make it (Powell, Hansen, Free, Bergman, Archer, Phillips) or are very old so might jump the exit queue (Goldstein) or are out the door (McKay).

only a matter of time before the playing list revolts though when Clarko sprays them over VAFA level skills as they * another switch or give another 50cm handball to a standing still player.

We’d want a ******* plan to get Bont, Curnow & Moore to change this around soon.

If they’re not up to it after being in the system 3-4 yrs I’d be turfing everyone of them - get in state league players that are proven , even if they’re 27 yrs old. We just need to bridge that vacuum in the 25-30 age group.

 

[Scottroo]

Whoever gave Lazzaro 3 years should be sacked on the spot

 

[DesertRoo]

Whoever gave Lazzaro 3 years should be sacked on the spot

?
He seems to be playing very well in the vfl, great trainer, he’s still a kid and we’ve got about a dozen blokes who could go before him.

 

[Its a Process]

Of the older guys i'd keep Shiels if he wants to go around again and simply retain the contracted guys.
Keep - Shiels, Greenwood (assuming trigger has been met), Cunners
Depart - Ziebs, Hall, Goldy, Howe, Dawson, Howe, Turner, Young, Spicer, Bonar, Free

I'd keep Drury, not sure what to do with Edwards but he probably goes as well.

I'd offer McKay a contract depending on what the market is offering. Maybe 3 years at $500 - $600k a year. Man, his defending on Sunday was so poor it's not funny.

 

[Junk yard]

No way McKay gets us a pick in the 20s. I would be surprised if there's any interest at all.