Adelaide, North Melbourne, Sydney, Hawthorn. Who would you rather be going forward and why???

[Pykie]

I think North Melbournes problem is they got stuck in the dead zone, which is the zone in the middle of the ladder. Not good enough to be in premiership contention but too good for the top draft picks. Meant the list sort of stayed where it was, not fighting for flags and with no elite young players coming in. Made them a very workman like team.

You are probably right.

It doesn't necessarily mean we don't have any decent young players though.

Answering the OP, I'd argue we have as good a young group as Sydney.

We've got a lot of excellent young players for later picks in the last 3-4 years.

Larkey, Scott, Zurhaar and Taylor are all Rising Star nominations in the last 25 rounds of football that were all 40+ draft picks.

Simpkin, Thomas and LDU are elite talents.


Our problems over the last 2-3 years have been injuries to kids. LDU has already missed the best part of 18 months already in just his 3rd season.

 

[RUNVS]

You are probably right.

It doesn't necessarily mean we don't have any decent young players though.

Answering the OP, I'd argue we have as good a young group as Sydney.

We've got a lot of excellent young players for later picks in the last 3-4 years.

Larkey, Scott, Zurhaar and Taylor are all Rising Star nominations in the last 25 rounds of football that were all 40+ draft picks.

Simpkin, Thomas and LDU are elite talents.


Our problems over the last 2-3 years have been injuries to kids. LDU has already missed the best part of 18 months already in just his 3rd season.

You are right. I definitely agree North has a few either really good or promising young players, but you are missing the really elite ones, the Rowell's, Kings, Rozee's of the draft. Out of interest, which younger players do North have who you could potentially see getting All Australian one day?

 

[Luv_our_club]

You are probably right.

It doesn't necessarily mean we don't have any decent young players though.

Answering the OP, I'd argue we have as good a young group as Sydney.

We've got a lot of excellent young players for later picks in the last 3-4 years.

Larkey, Scott, Zurhaar and Taylor are all Rising Star nominations in the last 25 rounds of football that were all 40+ draft picks.

Simpkin, Thomas and LDU are elite talents.

I would say Sydney are little ahead of North. Part of that is because they could sweep up 3 x top 15 picks in the draft this year.

The Hawks are a little stuffed, unless Mitch Lewis, Jackson Ross and Maginess can some on.


I will say this however; if Geelong fall at the last hurdle (or second last) again this year, then I would argue the prospect of rebuilding is not so daunting for clubs like North and Hawthorn. The cats have remained competitive, but at what cost, when a team like Port or Freo may be better placed overall and storm past them.

 

[Pykie]

You are right. I definitely agree North has a few either really good or promising young players, but you are missing the really elite ones. Out of interest, which younger players do North have who you could potentially see getting All Australian one day?

Well considering Simpkin has been in weekly AA sides for a portion of this year, definately him. He has been down since he hurt his ankle about 3-4 weeks ago.

I see no reason why Thomas and LDU couldn't push that barrier down the track if injury free. They have the talent.

Larkey? Maybe. His numbers stack up well against most young KPP's of his age in the comp.

Zurhaar, Scott and Taylor have the talent, it really comes down to how well they come on in the next 2-3 years as to see if they reach that level.


But again, it comes down to a bit of luck.

LDU has missed 7 months of training this year already.

Larkey has just returned from a 12 week injury.

Thomas is out for the season with a broken foot.

Scott missed most of last year with a broken foot.

Guys like Will Walker and EVW have missed the best part of the last 2.5 years etc.

We are certainly going to undertake a fairly significant cull at the end of this year.

 

[Pykie]

I would say Sydney are little ahead of North. Part of that is because they could sweep up 3 x top 15 picks in the draft this year.

We will be adding 1 x top 5 and 1 x top 10 more than likely.

We have Melbournes first pick in this years draft.

 

[Ambrosia]

I think North Melbournes problem is they got stuck in the dead zone, which is the zone in the middle of the ladder. Not good enough to be in premiership contention but too good for the top draft picks. Meant the list sort of stayed where it was, not fighting for flags and with no elite young players coming in. Made them a very workman like team.

It makes it harder for sure being in that zone but North's main issue is pretty simple from 2010 - 2015 they didn't bring much talent through the draft. Obviously expansion teams is part of the reason for that.

first and second round picks in that era:

2010
Atley
Harper

2011
Mckenzie
Curran

2012
Garner
Wood
Jacobs

2013
McDonald
Dumont
Brown

2014
Durdin
Nielson
Vickers-Willis

2015
Mckay
Clarke

It's just no where near enough talent to improve/sustain a list. Obviously if you finish lower then you're less likely to waste picks but Richmond managed to improve in that period from similar picks.

 

[Luv_our_club]

We will be adding 1 x top 5 and 1 x top 10 more than likely.

We have Melbournes first pick in this years draft.

We have your 2nd round (not that exciting) and that means i barrack against you every week. Sorry.

 

[Pykie]

We have your 2nd round (not that exciting) and that means i barrack against you every week. Sorry.

Yep, we have Essendon's now.

 

[Pykie]

It makes it harder for sure being in that zone but North's main issue is pretty simple from 2010 - 2015 they didn't bring much talent through the draft. Obviously expansion teams is part of the reason for that.

first and second round picks in that era:

2010
Atley
Harper

2011
Mckenzie
Curran

2012
Garner
Wood
Jacobs

2013
McDonald
Dumont
Brown

2014
Durdin
Nielson
Vickers-Willis

2015
Mckay
Clarke

It's just no where near enough talent to improve/sustain a list. Obviously if you finish lower then you're less likely to waste picks but Richmond managed to improve in that period from similar picks.

No argument there.

The 2011, 2012, 2014 drafts were a disaster. Which gets back to my previous point earlier, that the 22-26 year olds are the group that are destroying the side atm.

All of Garner, Wood and Jacobs are likely to go at the end of the year, they have been perennially injured for most of their AFL careers (8 years now).


We are due a stint at the very bottom, but I think we have a pretty good base of 18-22 years to build on top of with some absolutely elite picks over the next 2-3 drafts.

Add a Will Phillips, Elijah Hollands and another top pick in 2021 as an example and it starts to look decent.

 

[Ambrosia]

Things can change quickly but for mine its quite clearly Sydney > Hawthorn > North > Adelaide

Sydney have quite a good batch of experienced 23-27 year olds to build around allow the list to turn around quickly (Paker, Lloyd, Hewett, Heeney, Mills, Dawson, Alir) plus a solid group of <22 year olds in Florent, McCartin, Hayward, Blakey and Rowbottom. In comparison Hawthorn have good 23-27 year olds but less sub 22 talent and have more upcoming retirements. North lack quality mature age player with football ahead of them but have a good group of younger players.

Adelaide I find hard to rate as there's quite clearly cultural issues there with the prospect of both the Crouch's leaving.

 

[RUNVS]

I could be wrong but there seems a lot more teams these days either in a rebuild or due for one very soon. I mean right now we have

Hawthorn
Adelaide
Sydney
North Melbourne
Geelong
Essendon

just off the top of my head. Sure Geelong are currently 3rd but their age profile suggests a rebuild is coming very soon as well.

 

[raffrox]

Sydney.

I'm prepared to write Clarko off after watching the Hawks live this week. Plus either way Kennett already has Clarko out the door in two years. What happens from there will interesting.

Roos have some pain ahead and don't seem to have a set plan as of yet. The Crows are in a world of hurt right now.

 

[Ambrosia]

No argument there.

The 2011, 2012, 2014 drafts were a disaster. Which gets back to my previous point earlier, that the 22-26 year olds are the group that are destroying the side atm.

All of Garner, Wood and Jacobs are likely to go at the end of the year, they have been perennially injured for most of their AFL careers (8 years now).


We are due a stint at the very bottom, but I think we have a pretty good base of 18-22 years to build on top of with some absolutely elite picks over the next 2-3 drafts.

Add a Will Phillips, Elijah Hollands and another top pick in 2021 as an example and it starts to look decent.

When you brake down clubs first and second round picks you really see how the expansion hand out crippled some clubs. North would be especially disappointed as they made some good moves getting Dal Santo, Waite and Higgins cheaply if they could have paired with more talent from 2010 the above picks then things could have gone very differently.

 

[Atomboy]

Sydney - hot birds on Glammaramma beach.

And/or hot blokes if that is your thing.

 

[master bate]

Sydney are number 1.

Heeney, Papley (even if he leaves), Mills, Dawson, Florent, Hayward, McCartin, Blakey, Rowbottom, Stephens all under 23. That's 10 guys who should be around for the best part of a decade. 9 if Papley goes but surely you get a pick good enough to find another good player.

With Hewett, Aliir, Lloyd, Rampe, Parker, Reid, some role players and the right culture for success and the ability to land good (or great) players in trades and free agency.

Sydney can push for the 8 next year and trade their way to find what they need to get back to the top of the ladder. Should be a pretty well orchestrated rebuild.

It gets trickier after that. I'd rather have North's list because Simpkin, Larkey and Thomas give them 3 of the hardest types to find and there's some good ones around that, but North have a significant recruiting and coaching disadvantage compared with Hawthorn.

 

[Ambrosia]

I could be wrong but there seems a lot more teams these days either in a rebuild or due for one very soon. I mean right now we have

Hawthorn
Adelaide
Sydney
North Melbourne
Geelong
Essendon

just off the top of my head. Sure Geelong are currently 3rd but their age profile suggests a rebuild is coming very soon as well.

I guess you could make the argument that Essendon should rebuild/retool/whatever the buzz word is now to avoid being mired in the middle of the ladder for an extended period. Hurley and Hooker are only key players nearing retirement and with the next oldest being Dylan Shiel at 27. I'm not just not sure we have the scope to tear down the list and sink to the bottom of the ladder ala the teams in this thread.

Not saying that Essendon is in a great position but I don't think a full scale rebuild is on near horizon.

 

[Luv_our_club]

Arguably both the Hawks and North missed their window to trade out players with currency, like Goldstein, Brown, Higgins, Bruest, Gunston, Smith - as hard and brutal as that may have been.

The Swans salary cap squeeze with Franklin meant they had little choice and were often losing top end talent to the markplace which allowed them to get picks, including losing Papely almost last year. And on top of that the Swans got in Mills and Henney as top 5 picks before they were in rebuild mode which really helps. The Franklin contract and Academy players has helped position the Swans to a quick rebuld.

 

[Jibroni]

We have your 2nd round (not that exciting) and that means i barrack against you every week. Sorry.

And we have your 2nd round pick hence im cheering for the same reasons.

 

[Jibroni]

Toss up between Sydney and Hawks but Adelaide is worse than 2008 Melbourne; which is saying something.

 

[RUNVS]

I am interested to see what Clarkson will do with a good first round draft pick this year. Will he hit the draft or will he trade that pick for an established player.

 

[Walter H White]

Sydney are number 1.

Heeney, Papley (even if he leaves), Mills, Dawson, Florent, Hayward, McCartin, Blakey, Rowbottom, Stephens all under 23. That's 10 guys who should be around for the best part of a decade. 9 if Papley goes but surely you get a pick good enough to find another good player.

Heeney and Papley are both 24. I don't disagree with your point though.

 

[CholEstrol]

Sydney

 

[Boyohboywowwee]

Sydney

Case closed

 

[J_Moore]

Hawthorn have less young players, but at this stage, I feel their best young/mid-age players are still probably better than ours. And i think good teams are built around a core of great players.

adelaide and north - yeah, feels like the Swans are better placed. But things change pretty quickly. Lots of players just stagnate.

 

[The Nostradamus]

LDU, Simpkin, Thomas, Bonar, Larkey, Curtis Taylor, Hayden, Zurhaar, bailey Scott pretty comfortable with that under 23 group

2 first rounders to come