AFL talks about equality

[JeffDunne]

Imagine how good Carlton would be with early draft picks and cap concessions.

Oh wait . . . ignore that.

 

[Colonial]

Im still waiting for these drop in crowds. They have been on the up the last few years.

 

[royals1922]

Imagine how good Carlton would be with early draft picks and cap concessions.

Oh wait . . . ignore that.

But they still have Murphy, Gibbs and Kreuzer on their list as well as Thomas and Judd.

 

[Paul Kersey]

Well crowds dropping in Victoria will concern the rest of the country for about point zero zero one of a millisecond.

Probably. They'll concern the AFL though given more than half the comp is based here.

 

[Starburns_]

But they still have Murphy, Gibbs and Kreuzer on their list as well as Thomas and Judd.

Yarran at pick 6 too.

 

[Colonial]

Probably. They'll concern the AFL though given more than half the comp is based here.

What drop?

 

[JeffDunne]

But they still have Murphy, Gibbs and Kreuzer on their list as well as Thomas and Judd.

You forgot Walker (I bet most Carlton supporters wish they could).

 

[royals1922]

You forgot Walker (I bet most Carlton supporters wish they could).

You mean they have 7 top 6 picks in their side

 

[Big Stinky Monk]

Yet here we are with GWS, a soon to be manufactured premiership side/dynasty.

Call me a whinging Carlton fan, sooking because his joke of a team is getting arse whipped by them but it's the truth and you know it.

I had to make this thread after hearing some of the tripe David King speaks. "how good is this?", "they have a great amount of talent" etc. No shit you fat campaigner Kingy. Give any team the concessions they've had and we'll see this kind of play.

Is this what we want footy fans? We talk up equality, bring in ridiculous caps on footy department spending and yet here we are with a side in GWS and possibly Gold Coast that will dominate the league up in areas where quite frankly nobody gives a rat toss about football.

Draft concessions, mini drafts etc. What is this? The 1980s? Why don't we bring back zoning and salary cap cheating if we're gonna be like that. And before you have a go at me for going for Carlton, I wasn't aroids back then so have never agreed or barracked for sides that were pumped up by that.

What other sports league has ever manufactured teams like this? I doubt you would find any.

Just need the AFL to keep helping out the Swans while teams like Brisbane, Carlton etc will struggle to be relevant.

It is an absolute farce and get real if you want to enjoy these fake ******* franchises dominate the league.

P.S if you want to talk about what team I follow or if I supported expansion from day one ( I never liked it) head off to the bay.

GWS and Suns are now into their 4th and 5th years. The concessions you speak of were obviously agreed before they built their inaugural lists. Yet we get this thread 5 years later (and funnily enough 5 minutes after Carlton have just had their arses handed to them), so I'll take you up on your offer - you're a "whinging Carlton fan, sooking because your joke of a team is getting arse whipped by them".

 

[RUNVS]

GWS didn't do anything to Carlton today that at least 10 other teams in the competition wouldn't have done.

 

[The King!]

Was better when Carlton could just buy players and flags wasnt it

 

[Tas]

Except that GWS would only have Cameron up forward, it's pretty easy to dry up the scoring when there's only one legitimate tall target to kick to. Good midfields mean jack shit if you have no good forward targets, West Coast in 2006 are the only premiership team of recent times that won a flag on the back of their midfield and without a real forward target.

As for Carlton, Kreuzer is the only top end pick they wasted on a tall who hasn't delivered. Kennedy was also drafted, but we know how he turned out.

If Eagles had the midfield they had back then, and half of them weren't flatlining during pre-season junkets, then in the age of zones, presses, etc they would have been a very scary team.

GWS have more than Cameron up forward, the only ones that I said I wouldn't have drafted were Patton, Tomlinson and Boyd and those players haven't had any impact on GWS this season.

I just don't think the forwards are as valuable as they once were, zones really impact the space they have, very few key forwards are both exceptional at the contested marking and accuracy. Take Roughead, one of the better KPPs going around and Hawthorn took him early, his career peak is 72-75 goals, about 3.2 average. This is in one of the best kicking teams in AFL history. Your second tier are players who probably average a goal a game less. Back in 2005 and 2006 when Hawthorn had no key forwards they just had Mark Williams sitting up forward who kicked 63 and 60 goals. Anyone who can compete is going to kick goals, Hawks could stick Rioli out there at FF and he could probably kick 70 goals if the ball is directed at him 300 times a season like the typical one forward wonder sides.

Reality is there are a very small number of KPP/Ruckmen who were taken early on whos output warrants the position they were taken, some may be reasonable players, some not complete write-offs like Gumbleton taken at pick 2, but if you only get a handful of shots in the draft at the very best talent, are you going to roll the dice on a low probability bet or are you going to go for a high probability bet? Mids are a much safer bet. GWS were able to fire shots at low probability players due to the sheer excessive volume of picks they were given. If they focused more heavily of their premier picks on midfielders it wouldn't matter if they just had 3 competitors up forward, the midfield would do that much damage in the modern era.

There are plenty of good quality KPP taken later in the drafts. Teams that go all the way have very strong talented midfields who do damage on the scoreboard as well, they don't just bomb away blindly. Swans had the dream forward line and got smashed in the GF and the damage was done in the middle.

If you can't get the ball forward with quality and your mids can't do any damage, you are no hope. It doesn't matter how star studded your forward line is.

 

[Tbonefreo]

The AFL totally stuffed up with both new plastic sides. They should have been forced to use a lot of their concessions to get in B-grade players and spread those draft consessions around the league.

Instead they've ruined the competition for a few years by being easy beats and teams with extra games against them having an advantage. Now they're going to make a mockery of "competition" when the rest of us a playing for 3rd. GCS are having a rough year but it'll settle down once injuries are overcome and discipline is under control.

It'll be like Brisbane in their period but worse. Less people will care and the rest of us will have less of a chance because there are two of them. Yes their memberships will swell when they're on top and a few absolute neutrals will like watching them because they're the best but once they fall away they'll drift into irrelevance like Brisbane have, unless they get the free ride that Sydney have had.

I will also say that one reason Geelong, Sydney and Hawthorn have been able to stay up around the top for so long is because Carlton, Richmond, North and Essendon all had their rebuilds curtailed by missing out on so many draft opportunities to finish it off. Yes Essendon shot themselves in the foot with ASADA penalties, however, it was too late already. Those teams needed more top picks in 2009-2012.

In 10 years time those teams at the top now will have completely lost their cores and the new teams just wont be able to keep their lists together cause of FA. Then with 18 teams it'll be really hard to build teams from the top with picks 18, 36 ....

Hit the nail on the head man

 

[Colonial]

Hit the nail on the head man

So we should of traded the number 1 pick for a b grader?
Riiiight im sure all clubs throw away pick 1 like that.

 

[Magma]

Hmmm draft concessions you say....

artist impression only is fitting beyond belief

 

[TooFar]

Yeah nah. Happy with the way we have built.

Shown that they wont be taken for mugs at the trade table and took the hard way of building the club through othing but kids and constant "shittest club ever" comments. Its all coming together now. Players are staying (along with a rumoured few more soon).

*sniff *sniff *sniff I smell fear.

Took the hard way of building a club. Really? Even for you, that is a hell of a stretch.

 

[Colonial]

Took the hard way of building a club. Really? Even for you, that is a hell of a stretch.

Would of been easier to take it up the rear from you entitled clubs and traded top picks for spuds.

 

[TooFar]

Would of been easier to take it up the rear from you entitled clubs and traded top picks for spuds.

Your team has been given the most generous concession of any expansion club. Good on you, but they have been far from hard, so let's keep it real, shall we?

 

[Blue Heart]

Was better when Carlton could just buy players and flags wasnt it

This is a little bit hypercritically rich coming from a supporter whose club has managed to entice plenty of big names north of the border with mountainous bags of cash, with Healy, Williams, Nagle, Lockett, Roos, Hall, Maxwell etc ... and in more recent times, Franklin and Tippett springing to mind easily.

True today, Carlton deserved plenty of criticism as we were abysmal, bordering on the pathetic ... but its hard not to argue, we wouldn't have a been a much more competitive scoring unit with the latter two mentioned above occupying FF and CHF !!!

 

[Substance]

Carlton: Six Friday night games.

Dogs: 0 Friday night games.

There's a lot more than just GWS draft concessions that's wrong with the equality of the AFL.

Correct me if I'm wrong but,

2013, 2014, 2015

Carlton Friday Night Games = 17

Dogs = 0

AFLs idea of equality. And the big clubs have the nerve to whinge about handouts...

 

[coniglio_number1]

Exactly right the mini draft was over the top!

Now we have superstars like sumner, o'rourke and plowman....

I love the fear and the hate!
Move over collingwood we have taken your crown!!!


Muahahahhahaha

 

[royals1922]

This is a little bit hypercritically rich coming from a supporter whose club has managed to entice plenty of big names north of the border with mountainous bags of cash in recent years, with Lockett, Hall and in recent times Franklin and Tippett springing to mind easily.

True today, Carlton deserves plenty of criticism as we were abysmal, bordering on the pathetic ... but its hard not to argue, we wouldn't have a been a much more competitive scoring unit with the latter two mentioned above occupying FF and CHF !!!

So perhaps your team's own words should be noted:

From October last year:

"
Carlton could be in for a busy trade period, with list manager Shane Rogers declaring his club's interest in recruiting GWS tall Kristian Jaksch, as well as Bulldogs pair Liam Jones and Jason Tutt.

But Rogers has ruled out any chance of Bulldogs free agent Shaun Higgins heading to Visy Park.

"We've never, ever spoken to Shaun Higgins," Rogers told AFL Trade Radio. "We did inquire through his manager for about a five-minute window where we just wanted to know what was going on and [ask] was he prepared to move?

"At the time they said, 'He's not, he's a Bulldogs player,' and that was enough for us. We moved on."

or these bon mots from the same time:

"Pick six is a really vital pick and that player needs to be a 150-game player, so we're reticent to give that up," Rogers said. "So we'll have to try and work out some other things.

"Jaksch has indicated he would like to come to us ... we're in negotiations with them [GWS] and we've had some chats along the way.

"That might be a difficult trade to get done, but we'll continue to be in there fighting and try and get our man."

Of course we now know they did give up pick 7 for Jaksch and Whiley.

Oh and then they gave up Jeff Garlett and pick 83 for picks 61 and 79.

This was the Carlton take on that trade:

"It was time for him to have a fresh start and we are pleased to have been able to facilitate that by reaching agreement on a trade with Melbourne.

"Securing the fourth round draft pick gives us some options in terms of the remaining trade window and the upcoming AFL draft. We will now look to use that selection to continue improving our list as we look with optimism to season 2015."

Even the AFL can't save Carlton from themselves.

 

[Blue Heart]

So perhaps your team's own words should be noted:

From October last year:

"
Carlton could be in for a busy trade period, with list manager Shane Rogers declaring his club's interest in recruiting GWS tall Kristian Jaksch, as well as Bulldogs pair Liam Jones and Jason Tutt.

But Rogers has ruled out any chance of Bulldogs free agent Shaun Higgins heading to Visy Park.

"We've never, ever spoken to Shaun Higgins," Rogers told AFL Trade Radio. "We did inquire through his manager for about a five-minute window where we just wanted to know what was going on and [ask] was he prepared to move?

"At the time they said, 'He's not, he's a Bulldogs player,' and that was enough for us. We moved on."

or these bon mots from the same time:

"Pick six is a really vital pick and that player needs to be a 150-game player, so we're reticent to give that up," Rogers said. "So we'll have to try and work out some other things.

"Jaksch has indicated he would like to come to us ... we're in negotiations with them [GWS] and we've had some chats along the way.

"That might be a difficult trade to get done, but we'll continue to be in there fighting and try and get our man."

Of course we now know they did give up pick 7 for Jaksch and Whiley.

Oh and then they gave up Jeff Garlett and pick 83 for picks 61 and 79.

This was the Carlton take on that trade:

"It was time for him to have a fresh start and we are pleased to have been able to facilitate that by reaching agreement on a trade with Melbourne.

"Securing the fourth round draft pick gives us some options in terms of the remaining trade window and the upcoming AFL draft. We will now look to use that selection to continue improving our list as we look with optimism to season 2015."

Even the AFL can't save Carlton from themselves.

And your point is ? Sorry I don't see the relevance to my post that was directed to a Swans supporter's comment that Carlton bought players and flags, while ignoring his own club's big spending recruiting.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

This is a little bit hypercritically rich coming from a supporter whose club has managed to entice plenty of big names north of the border with mountainous bags of cash in recent years, with Lockett, Roos, Hall and in more recent times, Franklin and Tippett springing to mind easily.

True today, Carlton deserves plenty of criticism as we were abysmal, bordering on the pathetic ... but its hard not to argue, we wouldn't have a been a much more competitive scoring unit with the latter two mentioned above occupying FF and CHF !!!

two biggest tanking teams in the comp: carlton and melbourne is it any wonder both teams got smashed left right and centre today?

Tanking kills clubs.

we didn't just buy players, we produced a system that attracts players. Mick admitted in a press conference nobody wants to come to carlton.

 

[fishardansin]

So we should of traded the number 1 pick for a b grader?
Riiiight im sure all clubs throw away pick 1 like that.

No. When you have so many first round picks you could have gotten plenty of B-graders. With some A-graders with the players you were allowed to poach at the start and a few first round picks you guys would have had a competitive team first year. Instead you made us watch a team of juniors get smashed and then will grow up into a team that will dominate in a ridiculous manner.