Recommitted Ben King [contracted and staying at Gold Coast]

[Donakebab]

Look at the four final teams this year. Outside of Geelong, not a whole heap of star key forwards in that group. But, arguably the 3 best midfields in the comp in Melbourne, Dogs, and Port.

Hawkins, Cameron, Bruce, Naughton, Dixon and Brown are or have been among the best forwards in the competition. Then there's the young guns coming through with more opportunity or players a rung down in English, Ugle-Hagan, Georgiades, Marshall and McDonald. Then the team that finished 4th at the end of the season adds Daniher and Hipwood.

They had the top midfields, but they also have high quality tall forwards.

 

[SSwans2011]

Melbourne has Ben Brown, Tom McDonald, Bailey fritsch and Sam Weiderman

Ben Brown is a good player on a modest contract. Tom McDonald was close to the worst Dees player on ground in the GF (not a slight either, they played really well) and could easily fall out of the best 22 next year. Fristch isn't a key forward. Sam Weidmean wasn't even best 22 this year.

Bulldogs have Aaron Naughton, Josh Bruce, Jammara Ugle Hagan

Naughton was the only one of those that played in finals. Yes, Bruce would have made them a better team, but their elite midfield helped carry them to a GF.

Port have Charlie Dixon, Mitch Georgiades and a ton of talented small forwards.

Dixon is a sold B-grade forward. Georgiades didn't play finals.

You don't get to top 4 without a better than good forward line, doesn't matter how good your midfield is.
You don't win a Grand final with a great midfield, it takes a great team to win.

The point is that King + Membrey and your smalls is comparable to other top teams, but your midfield lags behind some of the top contenders. As an outsider, that seems like the area where you guys need to improve.

 

[SSwans2011]

Hawkins, Cameron, Bruce, Naughton, Dixon and Brown are or have been among the best forwards in the competition. Then there's the young guns coming through with more opportunity or players a rung down in English, Ugle-Hagan, Georgiades, Marshall and McDonald. Then the team that finished 4th at the end of the season adds Daniher and Hipwood.

They had the top midfields, but they also have high quality tall forwards.

Having stars on every line is important to win a flag. My point was more so St Kilda's midfield lags behind other top teams more than their forward line.

I think in a few years, a forward line of M. King, Membrey, and perhaps Ladhams or Shaman can compete with top sides. Not sure I can see their midfield stacking up against Melbourne or the Bulldogs as it currently is.

 

[HairyO]

Look at the four final teams this year. Outside of Geelong, not a whole heap of star key forwards in that group. But, arguably the 3 best midfields in the comp in Melbourne, Dogs, and Port.

Fritsch and Brown are pretty good...

 

[MickG88]

Ben Brown is a good player on a modest contract. Tom McDonald was close to the worst Dees player on ground in the GF (not a slight either, they played really well) and could easily fall out of the best 22 next year. Fritsch isn't a key forward. Sam Weideman wasn't even best 22 this year.

Naughton was the only one of those that played in finals. Yes, Bruce would have made them a better team, but their elite midfield helped carry them to a GF.

Dixon is a sold B-grade forward. Georgiades didn't play finals.

The point is that King + Membrey and your smalls is comparable to other top teams, but your midfield lags behind some of the top contenders. As an outsider, that seems like the area where you guys need to improve.

I was talking more about the whole year comparable to just finals because no team outside the top 8 has won a grand final so you need a better than good forward line to get to the finals and then to win a grand final.

 

[SSwans2011]

Fritsch and Brown are pretty good...

Fritsch isn't a key forward.

 

[HairyO]

Fritsch isn't a key forward.

Neither is Jack Gunston but he still has kicked 50 goals a few times.

Do you think the best defender goes on McDonald rather than Fritsch?

 

[Wild Bill]

Hope he stays. This will be as big a blow as any that have walked out. Until they stop the bleeding they will be stuck in the bottom 6.

 

[SSwans2011]

Neither is Jack Gunston but he still has kicked 50 goals a few times.

Do you think the best defender goes on McDonald rather than Fritsch?

What's your point? I'm not saying Fritsch is a bad player, I'm saying he's not a key forward. You can be a good forward without being a key forward.

 

[HairyO]

What's your point? I'm not saying Fritsch is a bad player, I'm saying he's not a key forward. You can be a good forward without being a key forward.

If he is taking the key defender he may as well be considered the key forward.

Maybe what youre really saying is he isnt a tall forward, because he is under 1.9m. Like Jason Dunstall

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

Scrimshaw pick 7 walked out after 2 years for a 4th rounder, suddenly a good player at the Hawks??

I have no problem with lynch, may, Prestia leaving as they spent plenty of time there. It should be incredibly difficult for a player to leave before they are a free agent.

Sorry, I misread your sentence. My apology.

Of course, other clubs are interested in Suns top talent. And of course, they will be paid well. It does not mean they automatically leave if they get higher offer somewhere else or they all have to be over-paid. E.g., Powell and Ballard, who could go anywhere and possibly for more money and yet re-signed until 2025 and both declaring love for the club, coach. Powell said he stays with the club until they don't want him. And yes, Suns need to start winning and taste success. Wins make everybody happy and players are more willing to stay for less. But it's not black and white. Also as I said already, I believe in a couple of years Suns will not be able to keep all that talent similar to GWS and some players will drop out.

Just to speculate if St Kilda pays Max let's say 800K if does not mean that Suns have to pay Ben 1M otherwise he leaves. The same salary will/could do.

Another misconception is that Suns draftees spend 2-3 years on GC and then leave. All those players you mentioned spent 6-8 years with Suns. Caddy was the only draftee in Suns history (they wanted to keep) leaving after 2 years.

Personally, I believe Suns have 1-2 years to start winning more and I think they will. Age and experience profile improves in 2022, injured players back, Witts with a decent backup, top talent reaching 50+ games, another pre-season.

I am minority, but I am happy to give Dew next year to start reaping benefits of rebuild. People forget that e.g., Goodwin had Roos doing heavy lifting first 3 years before taking over in 2017 and yet he was under most pressure entering this year. Plenty of other coaches were close to be fired before success including Clarko, Hardwick.

 

[buttox]

2 first rounders easily.
We will see how he goes this year and work out what those first rounders are.
He is quality.

 

[Jirik13]

Scrimshaw pick 7 walked out after 2 years for a 4th rounder, suddenly a good player at the Hawks??

I have no problem with lynch, may, Prestia leaving as they spent plenty of time there. It should be incredibly difficult for a player to leave before they are a free agent.

Scrimshaw extended and was under contract. Suns did not want to keep him. Homesick basically. Dew not impressed by his attitude I would say.

 

[Veer Right]

King’s manager hits back at ‘disrespectful’ trade speculation

But his manager Robbie D’Orazio told the Herald Sun he hoped King would be given a chance to thrive without distracting speculation about his loyalty.

“He has been continuously linked to rivals and it’s disrespectful that it has been spoken about when all he’s trying to do is win at Gold Coast,” he told the Herald Sun.

“He is a 21-year-old trying to learn his craft and he’s had to put up with all the speculation for the past three years, literally since draft night.

“I think it’s disrespectful to the Suns as well and I know for a fact Ben doesn’t like or want the attention.

“The last conversation I had with him when we caught up was how excited he was about the list and group and how he had full faith in the coaching department and club.”


“We only did his contract last year and he kicked 47 goals in a bottom four team.

“Gold Coast are doing everything right and getting Mabior Chol helps him and they have been nothing but fantastic for Ben.”

The tight-knit young Suns are determined to build something together after so many underperforming seasons at Gold Coast.

King, Izak Rankine and Jack Lukosius all re-signed after only a single season at the club in deals that will expire at the end of the season.

The Suns will put a contract offer to King again over summer and he remains a chance to commit to the club again before Round 1 for several seasons.

While there is a chance he might at some stage return to play in Melbourne, his loyalty or commitment to the Suns can scarcely be questioned given his on-field contributions.

I find Gold Coast offensive full stop. Made up team that could not exist without a lot of support from the AFL. Would be lucky to get two thousand supporters paying for tickets on gameday as the rest are freebies handed out. So now it's boo hoo when it's the saints turn (and this is all still a huge MAYBE, but just the thought of it and the trolls roll in) yet it's fine when the tigers and dees turned up and helped themselves.

You had GAZ for years and the net result? A lot of animosity towards the only glam player you had and everyone walking.

Why draft heavily from outside Queensland in the first place? Would it be because the best the team could field is a reserves quality team?

GC have smashed the draft for years hindering other teams at the bottom attempts at a fair crack at the high end talent.

The AFL changes the rules (cheat) to prioritise GC.

As for the saints needing another gun midfielder. Wow no s**t to the sherlocks in this thread. It's only been spoken about on our own forum ad infinitum.

From round 11 this year the team went 6-6. The six losses resulted in 9, 6, 13, 8, 31 and a 14 point defeat. This coming from a team that started the year in a deplorable state, had a high injury count, had the back six continuously shuffled while they were already new to each other to begin with. This also applies to the forward line and midfield.

Without an injection of a star midfielder the team is still capable of a top four finish. It's just that we will still be making up the numbers like seven of the eight teams this year.

On the plus side, twin kings will put bums on seats, more members, make the team more marketable and be great fun to watch.

 

[SSwans2011]

If he is taking the key defender he may as well be considered the key forward.

Nick Smith was probably Sydney's best 'defender' for a few years. He certainly wasn't a key defender. You can have complaints about the terminology, but Eddie Betts was never called a "key forward" despite probably being the highest paid forward on Adelaide's list at one stage.

 

[SSwans2011]

So now it's boo hoo when it's the saints turn (and this is all still a huge MAYBE, but just the thought of it and the trolls roll in) yet it's fine when the tigers and dees turned up and helped themselves.

Another classic BigFooty victim complex. You love to see it. Did you just happen to miss all the abuse Tom Lynch has copped since moving from the Suns?

Making a concentrated effort to poach young stars from struggling sides is a pretty shitty act, regardless of the team. It seems that Saints fans are happy enough to celebrate the potential of luring King across, but not happy to deal with people criticising their club for raiding struggling teams. Can't have it both ways.

 

[KingCoasters]

Made up team that could not exist without a lot of support from the AFL.

Coming from a saints supporter lol

 

[Jirik13]

Made up team that could not exist without a lot of support from the AFL.

Maybe you should check first AFL distributions to St Kilda before questioning existence of expansion club.

Would be lucky to get two thousand supporters paying for tickets on gameday as the rest are freebies handed out.

Again I would not talk too much about attendance numbers if I am St Kilda fan compared to most Melbourne clubs.

Sorry, no freebies handed out but it's true when Suns play St Kilda at Metricon I would guess 20-30% are St Kilda fans, a lot of them living on GC and having Suns membership.

 

[Veer Right]

Coming from a saints supporter lol

We deserve it. We HAD (forced) to play at Etihad while being robbed blind under the stadium deal. Since the ground was bought out by the AFL they returned the favour and helped us out with Moorabbin and our debts that they are partly responsible for.

Someone mentioned that it was 30k (not 100% on the number) needed at the ground just to break even.

 

[Therealsaint]

Maybe you should check first AFL distributions to St Kilda before questioning existence of expansion club.


Again I would not talk too much about attendance numbers if I am St Kilda fan compared to most Melbourne clubs.

Sorry, no freebies handed out but it's true when Suns play St Kilda at Metricon I would guess 20-30% are St Kilda fans, a lot of them living on GC and having Suns membership.

We have just under 56000 members,not bad for a team with very little success,more members then both grand finalists actually,our membership would jump quite comfortably into the 70's if we ever broke our drought,support not a major issue for us...

 

[Jirik13]

We have just under 56000 members,not bad for a team with very little success,more members then both grand finalists actually,our membership would jump quite comfortably into the 70's if we ever broke our drought,support not a major issue for us...

That's pretty impressive. I did not know that.

 

[XhazzafootyX]

We have just under 56000 members,not bad for a team with very little success,more members then both grand finalists actually,our membership would jump quite comfortably into the 70's if we ever broke our drought,support not a major issue for us...

Yeah 70 k is a bit of a stretch. But we do need to attract more crowds to our games.

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

Cry me a River Justin Timberlake. How about the AFL take away all their coffers from the saints and see how long they would have lasted. You have won 1 flag in your existence, you should not be throwing stones.

You understand it's the AFL, the whole point of the draft is to pick the best player in the country, not just Qld players???

Let me guess on the saints thread, you sit there spruiking that the king's went for the saints as kids, like it means anything now???

Let's hope for the good of footy he stays at gold coast, with Anderson and Rowell. Just maybe your beloved saints will sell the farm, so 12,000 can turn up at marvel and watch the king twins.

I find Gold Coast offensive full stop. Made up team that could not exist without a lot of support from the AFL. Would be lucky to get two thousand supporters paying for tickets on gameday as the rest are freebies handed out. So now it's boo hoo when it's the saints turn (and this is all still a huge MAYBE, but just the thought of it and the trolls roll in) yet it's fine when the tigers and dees turned up and helped themselves.

You had GAZ for years and the net result? A lot of animosity towards the only glam player you had and everyone walking.

Why draft heavily from outside Queensland in the first place? Would it be because the best the team could field is a reserves quality team?

GC have smashed the draft for years hindering other teams at the bottom attempts at a fair crack at the high end talent.

The AFL changes the rules (cheat) to prioritise GC.

As for the saints needing another gun midfielder. Wow no sh*t to the sherlocks in this thread. It's only been spoken about on our own forum ad infinitum.

From round 11 this year the team went 6-6. The six losses resulted in 9, 6, 13, 8, 31 and a 14 point defeat. This coming from a team that started the year in a deplorable state, had a high injury count, had the back six continuously shuffled while they were already new to each other to begin with. This also applies to the forward line and midfield.

Without an injection of a star midfielder the team is still capable of a top four finish. It's just that we will still be making up the numbers like seven of the eight teams this year.

On the plus side, twin kings will put bums on seats, more members, make the team more marketable and be great fun to watch.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

King’s manager hits back at ‘disrespectful’ trade speculation

But his manager Robbie D’Orazio told the Herald Sun he hoped King would be given a chance to thrive without distracting speculation about his loyalty.

“He has been continuously linked to rivals and it’s disrespectful that it has been spoken about when all he’s trying to do is win at Gold Coast,” he told the Herald Sun.

“He is a 21-year-old trying to learn his craft and he’s had to put up with all the speculation for the past three years, literally since draft night.

“I think it’s disrespectful to the Suns as well and I know for a fact Ben doesn’t like or want the attention.

“The last conversation I had with him when we caught up was how excited he was about the list and group and how he had full faith in the coaching department and club.”


“We only did his contract last year and he kicked 47 goals in a bottom four team.

“Gold Coast are doing everything right and getting Mabior Chol helps him and they have been nothing but fantastic for Ben.”

The tight-knit young Suns are determined to build something together after so many underperforming seasons at Gold Coast.

King, Izak Rankine and Jack Lukosius all re-signed after only a single season at the club in deals that will expire at the end of the season.

The Suns will put a contract offer to King again over summer and he remains a chance to commit to the club again before Round 1 for several seasons.

While there is a chance he might at some stage return to play in Melbourne, his loyalty or commitment to the Suns can scarcely be questioned given his on-field contributions.

It is natural that St Kilda will go after King and the media report on it.

I do not personally see St Kilda going after Bing though at this stage

Use the picks needed (I would assume 2x first rounder at minimum) to go after Mids.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Putting out a hypothetical, but assuming you are the Suns list manager accept to trade Ben King

34

Ben King

Age

23

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.5

4star

T

0.5

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

5.6

2star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.5

5star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

0.2

3star

G

1.0

4star

to St Kilda next year?

From a Saints POV, Marshall, King, Clark, Howard, Wilke, Steele, Sharman are off limits.

And lets go for 2 9th place finishes so picks between 9-12 for 22 and 23 drafts.

What deal might be acceptable?