Bigger impact - Lake to Hawthorn or Tippett to Swans

[Morris Major]

Still averaged 8 marks per game in 2012, only behind AA selection McPharlin (8.1), and the highest contested marking defender at 1.7/game.

As much as it pains me to say, he will be a very good player in the Hawthorn defence for at least one season.

*Unless Gibson, as third man up, spoils all the balls coming in that Lake would otherwise have marked.

 

[Last Line Hero]

Who are you trying to convince?

Seriously? That's it? Well that argument fell about as short as Hawthorn.

Says another one of the 07 Bandwagon Handbaggers.

Yes, because I was waiting with baited breathe for Geelong to get good so I could join an Internet football forum.

 

[Pessimistic]

Depends if the Swans give up a premiership Hero I suppose

 

[Mighty Chinook]

Still averaged 8 marks per game in 2012, only behind AA selection McPharlin (8.1), and the highest contested marking defender at 1.7/game.

As much as it pains me to say, he will be a very good player in the Hawthorn defence for at least one season.

*Unless Gibson, as third man up, spoils all the balls coming in that Lake would otherwise have marked.

That's all well and good but 7/8 of those marks are cheap uncontested marks. Hawks are looking for a rebounding or switch defender, they need a good, lock down defender who will take the best forward. Taking 7 uncontested marks a game is not indicative of this. TBH I think this is a strange move by Hawthorn, given that Lake is well past his best and is 30+ y.o.

 

[Hawkk]

??
Hawthorn's best 2 performed players of 2012 - S.Mitchell will be 30 in a few days, Sewell will be 29 before the opening bounce next year.

Add to them

Hodge, turning 29 in 2013
Burgoyne, 30 in a few weeks
Gibson, 29 in 2013
Guerra, 31 in 2013
Hale, 29 in 2013
Lake, 31 in 2013

8 Hawks will be 29 or above in 2013.

With that taken into account, it makes sense for the Hawks to try to fill a weakness....as they are striving to get Hodge, Mitchell et al another flag before it is too late.

Gibson and Hale are fine, but Hodge, Guerra, Borgoyne and now Lake is the concern over the next 2-3 years.

I see Hawthorn callenging for another year or two before entering into another mini rebuild (ala 2009-2010) stocking up to build for another crack at the top 4 with the likes of Franklin, Rioli, Roughead, Lewis etc. entering into the 28-32 year old bracket (ala the Swans 2005-06 and again in 2012-13?)

The key for Hawthorn is to try to reinvigorate their midfield with youth and pace, for this reason it wouldn't surprise me if Hawthorn start doing deals with GWS and the Gold Coast for draft upgrades for Young, Murphy, Gilham etc.

The wildcard for all of this is free agency, It'll be interesting to see just how effective Free Agency could be in helping successful clubs sustain their run at the top.

 

[Morris Major]

That's all well and good but 7/8 of those marks are cheap uncontested marks. Hawks are looking for a rebounding or switch defender, they need a good, lock down defender who will take the best forward. Taking 7 uncontested marks a game is not indicative of this. TBH I think this is a strange move by Hawthorn, given that Lake is well past his best and is 30+ y.o.

Depends who they play him on. IMO he's never going to be a good run-with type of key defender, but he can hold down full back in 1-on-1 situations.

 

[Pessimistic]

??
Hawthorn's best 2 performed players of 2012 - S.Mitchell will be 30 in a few days, Sewell will be 29 before the opening bounce next year.

Add to them

Hodge, turning 29 in 2013
Burgoyne, 30 in a few weeks
Gibson, 29 in 2013
Guerra, 31 in 2013
Hale, 29 in 2013
Lake, 31 in 2013

8 Hawks will be 29 or above in 2013.

With that taken into account, it makes sense for the Hawks to try to fill a weakness....as they are striving to get Hodge, Mitchell et al another flag before it is too late.

Possibly even the best form of their careers - does that mean they will drop off quickly ? Catch 22 really

 

[hawkman]

Depends who they play him on. IMO he's never going to be a good run-with type of key defender, but he can hold down full back in 1-on-1 situations.

He will play on the Hawkins, Cloke, Tippett type forward and probably the resting ruckman

 

[Morris Major]

He will play on the Hawkins, Cloke, Tippett type forward and probably the resting ruckman

He'll have an impact for the Hawks against those types of players, he might be on the decline since his 06-10 heyday but he's certainly not past it. There's a lot of negativity about the trade and his ability, but the truth he played a decent 20-odd games in 2012 after coming back from having 2011 off due to injury.

I still think Hawks got a steal considering they only really gave up pick 41.

 

[Bonz]

Thats all we really need him for and he cost pick 41...

Supporters of both Grand Finallists would both be pretty happy at the moment I would say.

Yeah I have been smiling ever since Saturday the 29th of September

In all seriousness though I think both players will be extremely crucial for their teams (IF Sydney sign Tippett).

Lake really allows Hawthorn to have a player who can cope with the real monster forwards and he was actually quite good last season if he can stay fit next season may actually have a bigger say in the Hawks flag prospects than any other player on their list. (In other words I believe he is an exceptional signing).

Tippett really depends on who the Swans trade for him (Could be someone like Lamb going to Victoria with pick 22 for an upgrade... Or it could be someone like Parker (Which will hurt us in years to come) or Bird both of those players would be moved along with pick 22), If either of those trade scenarios play out I think the Swans would win that trade.

If the Swans trade someone like Grundy along with pick 22 or our second round pick... Even though we can move LRT back to defence this would be a loss as it robs us of some versatility in defence.

As a player... Tippett is exactly what we need... Someone we can stick in the goal square that can both lead or crash packs and isn't afraid to put his body on the line, Will be crucial to us next year if we sign him, In fact would be just as important as Lake to Hawthorn maybe even more so now.

 

[hawkman]

He'll have an impact for the Hawks against those types of players, he might be on the decline since his 06-10 heyday but he's certainly not past it. There's a lot of negativity about the trade and his ability, but the truth he played a decent 20-odd games in 2012 after coming back from having 2011 off due to injury.

I still think Hawks got a steal considering they only really gave up pick 41.

I remember him beating Cloke earlier this year. Was there anyone in particular he really struggled with?

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

He'll have an impact for the Hawks against those types of players, he might be on the decline since his 06-10 heyday but he's certainly not past it. There's a lot of negativity about the trade and his ability, but the truth he played a decent 20-odd games in 2012 after coming back from having 2011 off due to injury.

I still think Hawks got a steal considering they only really gave up pick 41.

Question is will Hawkins, Cloke etc burn him off the lead?

 

[Morris Major]

He'll struggle with the harder working, harder running high HF type, like N Riewoldt or Buddy (well, not that he'll a problem). In our better seasons Dale Morris took those players though, so it didn't matter for Lake

Question is will Hawkins, Cloke etc burn him off the lead?

Off the lead I'd probably say yes...

 

[Tedeski]

I hear that Hawthorn are already in the 2013 Grand Final..........................wow.

Lake said so..........................he said he is playing for 200K less so that he can play in a GF.

 

[Morris Major]

I hear that Hawthorn are already in the 2013 Grand Final..........................wow.

Lake said so..........................he said he is playing for 200K less so that he can play in a GF.

If Hawks don't make the Granny in 2013 heads will roll

 

[Pessimistic]

I hear that Hawthorn are already in the 2013 Grand Final..........................wow.

Lake said so..........................he said he is playing for 200K less so that he can play in a GF.

Who are we playing against ?

I'm thinking Sydney,Geelong,Collingwood,StKilda,West Coast in that order

 

[QuietB]

Lots of crap about Lake being too slow, past his best, will they burn him on the lead, etc. etc. How about we step back for one second and ask what is Hawthorn's actual weakness in defence? Answer - defending the high ball. What is Lakes primary role going to be? Defend the high ball from the full back position. He is much bigger and much stronger than the Hawks current options (2 1/2" taller than Gibbo, about 15kgs heavier than Schoenmakers) and he knows how to use his size as good as anyone.

Gibson and Schoenmakers have the wheels to chase everyone down field - that will not be Lakes job. If Lake works out, and I think he will, good luck to the Cats/Pies/Crows primary game plan of sitting it on top of Hawkins/Clokes/Walkers head all day.

If, and it is an if, this trade solves the Hawks issues with the high ball then opposition clubs are going to have find another way for 5 odd goals a game.

 

[Hawkk]

Who are we playing against ?

I'm thinking Sydney,Geelong,Collingwood,StKilda,West Coast in that order

Fremantle?

 

[Pessimistic]

Lots of crap about Lake being too slow, past his best, will they burn him on the lead, etc. etc. How about we step back for one second and ask what is Hawthorn's actual weakness in defence? Answer - defending the high ball. What is Lakes primary role going to be? Defend the high ball from the full back position. He is much bigger and much stronger than the Hawks current options (2 1/2" taller than Gibbo, about 15kgs heavier than Schoenmakers) and he knows how to use his size as good as anyone.

Gibson and Schoenmakers have the wheels to chase everyone down field - that will not be Lakes job. If Lake works out, and I think he will, good luck to the Cats/Pies/Crows primary game plan of sitting it on top of Hawkins/Clokes/Walkers head all day.

If, and it is an if, this trade solves the Hawks issues with the high ball then opposition clubs are going to have find another way for 5 odd goals a game.

Agreed, but just on that last point - games in which Hawks have rarely been beaten - when the FF gets a run on.
Best thing about Lake is the lowered wear and tear on Shoe and Gibbo performing 'heroics' that energy can be re-chanelled to offensive rebound
Not that Lake is pretty good at defensive rebound himself.
Our other 'chink" seems to be oppositions tagging Birchall to stop rebound. All these guys should be capable of providing that - very good kicks indeed. some have said Birchall might be operating more up the ground anyway

 

[QuietB]

Agreed, but just on that last point - games in which Hawks have rarely been beaten - when the FF gets a run on.
Best thing about Lake is the lowered wear and tear on Shoe and Gibbo performing 'heroics' that energy can be re-chanelled to offensive rebound
Not that Lake is pretty good at defensive rebound himself.
Our other 'chink" seems to be oppositions tagging Birchall to stop rebound. All these guys should be capable of providing that - very good kicks indeed. some have said Birchall might be operating more up the ground anyway

I think Birchall is still a HBF. He knows the system, his defensive work is getting and better all the time, he is quick, he is big, he is hard and physical (which is not your typical HBF). To take the pressure off him we need another one of him.

 

[Pessimistic]

On the OP - Tippet IS going to the Swans isnt he - seems to be slipping into the Hypothetical territory ?

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

On the OP - Tippet IS going to the Swans isnt he - seems to be slipping into the Hypothetical territory ?

Shrugs.

 

[Roughies Boys]

Lake really is a strange one. It's not as though he is still performing at his best, He is well and truly past his AA form of a few years back. 31 heading into 2013? Weird. Will be interesting to see how it goes. Might be able to perform a role considering the ball will be in the Hawks backline a lot less compared to the WB's one.[/quote]

It doesn't matter... Hawks have got a solid backline!

 

[Wolfgang West]

That makes him 10x the player Sam Reid is..

Insightful.

 

[Wolfgang West]

Shoey will just shut Reid out of the game again.

Like he did when he gave him 50 mtrs lattitude in the 2nd qtr and Reid kicked a crucial goal or like he did in the 2nd half ? I hope so. One going to be a superstar the other a clone of Kevin Walsh.