Border Gavaskar Trophy, India v Australia, 3rd Test 1-5 March, 1430hrs at Indore

[Adelaide Hawk]

A wise old cricketer told me many years ago when I was just a lad “good bats don’t get bowled”

I've followed the game for half a century, and in all that time, Australian spinners had generally been very handy with the bat. Players ranging from Richie Benaud, Peter Philpott, Tom Veivers, Johnny Martin, David Sincock, Keith Stackpole, Ian Chappell, Bob Simpson, Ashley Mallett, Kerry O'Keeffe, Terry Jenner, Ray Bright, Tony Mann, Bruce Yardley, Peter Sleep, Tom Hogan, Murray Bennett, Peter Taylor, Greg Matthews, Tim May, Trevor Hohns, Shane Warne, Michael Bevan, Brad Hogg, Nathan Hauritz, Nathan Lyon.

You get the point, although there were rare exceptions, spinners weren't bunnies. You had the odd quick who was useless, but generally not spinners. They could offer plenty in the lower order. However, of late, there has been a rash of spinners who can't bat an eyelid. I'm wondering why this has come about. Is it lack of batting in T20 cricket perhaps?

 

[big_e]

For those who like facts, here are the batting averages of batters 8-11, sorted by decade.

For all tests -




And for Australia only -



Batting averages for tailenders this decade are certainly down, but for Australia, at least, they are higher than the 60s, 70s and 80s, and a touch lower than the 90s.

For what it's worth, the global batting average of tailenders since the IPL started in April 2008 is 15.79, compared to the all-time average of 15.25.

 

[western royboy]

I've followed the game for half a century, and in all that time, Australian spinners had generally been very handy with the bat. Players ranging from Richie Benaud, Peter Philpott, Tom Veivers, Johnny Martin, David Sincock, Keith Stackpole, Ian Chappell, Bob Simpson, Ashley Mallett, Kerry O'Keeffe, Terry Jenner, Ray Bright, Tony Mann, Bruce Yardley, Peter Sleep, Tom Hogan, Murray Bennett, Peter Taylor, Greg Matthews, Tim May, Trevor Hohns, Shane Warne, Michael Bevan, Brad Hogg, Nathan Hauritz, Nathan Lyon.

You get the point, although there were rare exceptions, spinners weren't bunnies. You had the odd quick who was useless, but generally not spinners. They could offer plenty in the lower order. However, of late, there has been a rash of spinners who can't bat an eyelid. I'm wondering why this has come about. Is it lack of batting in T20 cricket perhaps?

I’ve discussed it ad nauseum but the general decline in batting is due to the way the game is taught rather than T20 per se although the focus in short form cricket at all levels has resulted in a reduced need for people who can occupy the crease

 

[Fabab]

Same team for next test i presume ?

 

[akkaps]

Cummins will miss final Test too, Smith to lead Australia in Ahmedabad

Cummins is still due to lead Australia in the ODI series, but a decision on his participation in that series hasn't been taken yet

www.espncricinfo.com

Cummins out, Smith to captain

 

[The 747]

Same team for next test i presume ?

Assuming the same sort of minefield yes. If there is some grass perhaps Boland for Murphy.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Confident Murphy will improve because he will make it his business to.

also, he’s only play a dozen senior games total. Anyone knocking his batting at this point is a clown.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Big difference between growing up batting on dust bowls / turning tracks and getting your first look at one in a Test Match with limited experience as a FC Bat. Ashwin / Jadeja / Patel could all legitimately bat at 6 or 7, our three musketeers are genuine 11’s.

Spot on. Plenty of tails struggle in foreign conditions. They are the tail for a reason. If they could dominate in any conditions they’d be all rounders.

Plenty of foreign tails have looked poor at the Gabba, not sure why we expect different for our guys.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

The pitches for the first two tests weren't great but they weren't hideous either. India proved you could get a very good score batting in Nagpur and both sides scored more than 250 in their first dig in the Delhi test. Australian collapses meant both tests were done and dusted inside 3 days. As for the pitch in Indore, I'm glad it got a rating of 'poor'. No pitch should look like a day 4 pitch on day 1.

As for a sandpaper related bomb being dropped before the Ashes, David Warner's wife has an autobiography out in early April. No doubt there'll be something sandpaper related in there. It'd be great to move on from events in Cape Town in 2018 but it feels like the story in Aussie cricket that won't die of a natural death.

The pitch for the first test was awful, it was set up to allow India to prosper. That we played poorly doesn’t change that. None of the pitches have been up to standard, 3 and 1 have just been the worst - doesn’t negate our poor performance.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Spot on. Plenty of tails struggle in foreign conditions. They are the tail for a reason. If they could dominate in any conditions they’d be all rounders.

Plenty of foreign tails have looked poor at the Gabba, not sure why we expect different for our guys.

to be honest Carey looks like a tail ender. Growing up prospering on SA flat tracks is not the best prep for Bunsens.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

to be honest Carey looks like a tail ender. Growing up prospering on SA flat tracks is not the best prep for Bunsens.

Hes had a poor tour with the bat, but I’d wait to write him off just yet. He’s certainly not the only one to struggle.

 

[western royboy]

to be honest Carey looks like a tail ender. Growing up prospering on SA flat tracks is not the best prep for Bunsens.

To be fair most of our elite talents grow up batting on flat tracks nowadays.

 

[The hands of stone]

Murphy has a nice technique when he gets bowled though.

Looks good but you can drive a truck through his defence at the minute .
Will learn though

 

[The 747]

Looks good but you can drive a truck through his defence at the minute .
Will learn though

Yeah I have some faith that he will wind up better than no 11 standard.

 

[The hands of stone]

Yeah I have some faith that he will wind up better than no 11 standard.

He has progressed quickly up the grades due to his bowling talent and his batting hasnt really had time to adjust , understandable. Bats like he is playing premier 2nds cricket still
Tough gig on the sub continent too

 

[Silver Tongue]

Yeah I have some faith that he will wind up better than no 11 standard.

I agree. His old man is Jamie Murphy who played serious cricket as a batter for St Kilda in District Cricket. Not sure he was ever near Shield selection but I have some weird recollection he made 150+ in a District Final for St Kilda prior to retiring and moving to Echuca in the 90's. To play against dead beats like me!

I suspect Todd might surprise us on Australian wickets and become more 'Gary' Lyon than Jim Higgs!

 

[Westend]

Will be interesting to see what the Indians produce with the pitch this test.

Last week they where talking about trying to replicate english conditions asking for a green top. Or will they stick to there true and tested formula of bunsens ?

 

[The hands of stone]

I’ve discussed it ad nauseum but the general decline in batting is due to the way the game is taught rather than T20 per se although the focus in short form cricket at all levels has resulted in a reduced need for people who can occupy the crease

Yep .Coaching standard and philosphy miraculously changed . Simple basic technique out the window and has been for some time .
The art of building an innings is almost a dying art if not already.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Yep .Coaching standard and philosphy miraculously changed . Simple basic technique out the window and has been for some time .
The art of building an innings is almost a dying art if not already.

Not sure this is the best series to judge that on. Vettoris comments about how drastically different the pitches in India are recently compared with in the past was very interesting.

 

[western royboy]

Not sure this is the best series to judge that on. Vettoris comments about how drastically different the pitches in India are recently compared with in the past was very interesting.

Both are equally relevant

 

[The hands of stone]

Not sure this is the best series to judge that on. Vettoris comments about how drastically different the pitches in India are recently compared with in the past was very interesting.

Not judging it on this series , have had this opinion for 10 years

 

[Rabish Binney]

Its the poms they are going to be going to be at our lot non stop all tour, their media are scum of the earth and their fans were even booing when smith was injured last tour so who cares what they think? only thing that shuts them up is winning cant be picking badly out of form players because we are worried about getting negative press in england of all places.

Still think people are reading this all wrong anyway, warner has a long term commentary deal in place with fox sports he is not going to put that in jeopardy by going to war with current players when they are the blokes he will be expected to interact with in his new media role, do people seriously not watch all these player interviews and media puff pieces from 7/fox every summer? the players and these broadcasters are content partners if warner goes to war with players the players will freeze foxsports out.

I think there is a much more simple reason warner is still around and that is CA are terrible at handling this stuff and have been for a while now, we dont move out of form senior players on we simply wait till even the player realizes they are cooked and they retire, CA would have been hoping warner took it upon himself to retire this summer so they could avoid actually making the call themselves but if a player is stubborn we can end up with situations like this.

The pommy crowds and media (especially that smart arse Michael Vaughan) are the biggest hypocrites going around..

No mention of the 2005 team, captained by Vaughan using mints to shine the ball (the exact charge laid against Faf Du Plessis) as admitted by Marcus Trescothick in his autobiography.

I wish someone like Warnie or Ponting had confronted Vaughan on air about it and called him out. Would have been interesting to see the smug pricks response.

Jeez, I hope we spank them.

 

[Rabish Binney]

It's not about blackmail, it's controlling the timing of a message which will come out for ******* six months.

It's ******* funny how quickly people go all 'we do not negotiate with terrorists' when it isn't their nuts on the line.

Something will come out when Candace decides its the right time.....

They'll be paid millions for the 60 minutes 'scoop'.....

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Not judging it on this series , have had this opinion for 10 years

Pitches in recent years have certainly been a factor, fitter bowlers too. I’m not as convinced in the theory, not saying it doesn’t have any merit though.

 

[sydney_gws]

The pommy crowds and media (especially that smart arse Michael Vaughan) are the biggest hypocrites going around..

No mention of the 2005 team, captained by Vaughan using mints to shine the ball (the exact charge laid against Faf Du Plessis) as admitted by Marcus Trescothick in his autobiography.

I wish someone like Warnie or Ponting had confronted Vaughan on air about it and called him out. Would have been interesting to see the smug pricks response.

Jeez, I hope we spank them.

He is not so smug now with all the Yorkshire drama going on.