I know, like the time he was 7th in the Brownlow but not AA, or 2nd highest rated forward in the AFL, but not AA, or 4th highest rated player in the AFL but not AA.
Funny about that.
Opinion Can Dustin Martin be the GOAT? (Answer: no)
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I know, like the time he was 7th in the Brownlow but not AA, or 2nd highest rated forward in the AFL, but not AA, or 4th highest rated player in the AFL but not AA.
Funny about that.
I know, like the time he was 7th in the Brownlow but not AA, or 2nd highest rated forward in the AFL, but not AA, or 4th highest rated player in the AFL but not AA.
Funny about that.
7th in the Brownlow isn't that impressive when you consider it is a midfielders award and for better or worse Martin is a sort of midfielder. Doesn't mean he was the 7th best player in the league considering ruckmen, defenders, forwards and even wingers are not really included in the Brownlow.
Sttew
Brownlow Medallist
Gotta love how these diehard Tigers supporters Meteoric Rise Cleansweep17 etc keep preaching to those who really don't care about Dusty as GOAT. He was an out and out champion for 3 or 4 years but is now well and truly past his use-by-date (you only had to look at his game against WCE. It was embarrassing just how disinterested, slow and removed he was). What he lacks to be considered a GOAT is true longevity, and not just racking up games to get to his 300th but impactful games
But but but I have Mr Meow on here telling me 12-13 midfieldrs get selected each season in the AA team. So it should be the best 12-13 right? Especially where some of them are getting selected as half forwards where Dusty is as good as any player we have seen this century.
Not even close.
If he was, he'd have a similar ability as Matthews and go forward in the latter years and become a deadly goal kicker but do you know why he can't do that . . . . bloke cannot take an overhead mark to save his life.
Now he has lost speed and he's very much an ordinary footballer.
They do, and the Brownlow is a terrible way of telling who was even the best midfielder in the competition in any given year. Just look at Cooney, Priddis, Cotchin and Wines. None of them were anywhere close to the best midfielder in their winning years.
Quality post Sttew. My only criticisms:
- if you gotta love how we keep preaching to those who don't care...we gotta love how people like you keep coming here to reassure "those who don't care" Dusty is not actually the GOAT. What you haven't explained is why you have come to the thread 48 times to reassure people who don't care. But Sttew, that is as nothing in comparison to Meow's 744 visits to express openly how little he cares about the subject.
- "out and out champion for 3-4 seasons" Err, not too many players are out and out champions for 3-4 seasons. Whatever an out and out champion is.
- "past his use-by date." That is clearly obvious from the evidence of one single game out of almost 300.
- "lacks true longevity" yep a player who is approaching his 300th game, is about 8th in total Brownlow votes, had great season 12 years apart 2011-2023 and most of the others in between and has led his club in coaches votes 8 times(same as Ablett, more than Pendlebury and many other prominent players referred to as having great longevity.)
- "lacks impactful games" LOL
Thanks for your great service on the thread in reassuring all the people who don't care anyway that Dusty is not, iyo, the GOAT.
Sttew
Brownlow Medallist
And the proof is in the eating of the pudding. You didn't have to respond with a regulation Meteoric Rise thesis, but you did.Quality post Sttew. My only criticisms:
- if you gotta love how we keep preaching to those who don't care...we gotta love how people like you keep coming here to reassure "those who don't care" Dusty is not actually the GOAT. What you haven't explained is why you have come to the thread 48 times to reassure people who don't care. But Sttew, that is as nothing in comparison to Meow's 744 visits to express openly how little he cares about the subject.
- "out and out champion for 3-4 seasons" Err, not too many players are out and out champions for 3-4 seasons. Whatever an out and out champion is.
- "past his use-by date." That is clearly obvious from the evidence of one single game out of almost 300.
- "lacks true longevity" yep a player who is approaching his 300th game, is about 8th in total Brownlow votes, had great season 12 years apart 2011-2023 and most of the others in between and has led his club in coaches votes 8 times(same as Ablett, more than Pendlebury and many other prominent players referred to as having great longevity.)
- "lacks impactful games" LOL
Thanks for your great service on the thread in reassuring all the people who don't care anyway that Dusty is not, iyo, the GOAT.
BTW, "out and out" means "in every respect". Look it up! Gary Ablett Junior was an out and out champion for at least 8 - 10 years. We know he was because of the coaches, players and media awards he received - 5 x MVP's; & 8 X AA's.
Dusty had an exceptional; 2017 and was called BOG in 3 GF's.
Is that the same Cotchin who won the Coaches MVP in a canter?
I will give you a list of midfielders who have made the AA team:
2023 Josh Daicos, Nick Daicos(arch squib) Z Merrett, J Dawson, C Serong
2022 Mills Blicavs Rozee
2021 MacRae Parish Steele
2020 Guthrie
Boak Steele Adams Daniel2018 Pendlebury Gaff Higgins Edwards
2017 J Kelly M Crouch Zorko Shiel
2016 Sloane Parker
2015 Deledio Mundy
2014 Heppell
Lewis RockliffTell me why all of those guys have your undiminished respect due to the AA selectors picking them in the team based on midfield deeds but Brownlow winners Cotchin(also coaches mvp) Wines(2nd coaches MVP) Priddis(4th coaches MVP) and Cooney(3rd of mids in coaches MVP) are somehow unworthy of your respect?
I mean, I respect almost all these guys, but fair dinkum, if any of those selections are better than Dusty's 5th best season I would be moderately surprised. If all of them are then anaphylactic shock.
LOL
He simply is, nobody has had the career Dusty has. And thus far it looks like nobody ever will
LOL
Plenty have been just as dominant in finals and won multiple flags and player honors. You are a just a prisoner of the moment.
3 premierships
3 Norm Smith medals
1 sexy brownlow year
The single best season by anyone past or present.
Dusty stands alone at the top of the mountain.
There is no comparison as Dusty is the clear #1.
AA's are severely overrated and shouldn't be the measuring stick.
Martin probably deserved a 5th AA selection but it's delusional to pretend he warranted 8 or more.
AA rants are your thing though and I can see you are continuing to ramble on and on and on along those lines once again.
Sttew
Brownlow Medallist
Nobody has won 3 X NS's. Two have won 2. But beyond the NS's Dusty's career is nothing special. How many MVP's How many AA's How many Brownlow medals? It is simply not GOAT material. I can't believe you, a supposed Hawthorn supporter, would have Dusty ahead of Lethal Leigh.
He is obviously getting on in age and lost interest so no longer has the impact he once did... But to me, he is still playing the way he always has except now tigers are poo and he can't capitalise.
Can never be the Goat as far as I am concerned because he has zero defensive side to his game, during his prime or now.
He lived on no accountability, having everyone structure up to his benefit, run forward of the play, gamble cotch and the like would win the contest and he would then feast.
Now that isn't happening he is a liability and on recent output is just a footballer.
Can never be the Goat as far as I am concerned because he has zero defensive side to his game, during his prime or now.
He lived on no accountability, having everyone structure up to his benefit, run forward of the play, gamble cotch and the like would win the contest and he would then feast.
Now that isn't happening he is a liability and on recent output is just a footballer.
I think the edit to the thread title "No" summarises the debate neatly
An edit by someone with intense dislike of Richmond no doubt.
Dusty has players like Ablett, Fyfe and the Bont covered.
Only Aker and Voss could rival Dusty!
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If every game Dusty played was a final against Geelong there would be no doubt that he is the goat
Correct. Martin was the ultimate destroyer in that role and arguably nobody from his era could've done it better. Richmond lacked elite non KPFs so he was heavily used any time they didn't want to pop it on Riewoldt or Lynch's head.
He blurred the lines between whether he was a forward or just an ultra attacking midfielder, but it relied on Richmond's pressure freaks, elite defence and swarming counter attacks. The other midfielders didn't get huge numbers but especially in finals they bullied and outlasted opposition. Martin did his part superbly but there's a reason his numbers and performances stand out so much in that period - especially in finals.
He's been mortal before and after, and outside of one home and away season, never been consistently outstanding.
Martin may be well past his best and not the greatest of all time, but I'm sure that doesn't keep him up at night as he sleeps next to his three premiership medals, three Norm Smiths and Brownlow.
Dustin Martin : 3 finals against Geelong
23 disposals, 3 marks, 4 clearances, 2 goals & 1 direct goal.
vs
Wayne Carey : 3 finals against Geelong
23 disposals, 11 marks & 5.5 goals.
Put down the pipe Bender.
Most of them didn't see Carey play.
Anyone who watched the career of both, I'm not sure how you could favour Martin.
It is as delusional as us saying Hawkins or Steve Johnson are ahead of Carey.
