Analysis Can Grundy and Cox co-exist in the same 22?

[CarnMags]

His rationale is that the lack of defensive pressure requires a higher output, I agree with that.

I don't agree with that at all... Everyone has a different role to play.

We have Varcoe, Elliot, Fasolo et all for F50 pressure acts.

We need goals - or someone that can halve a contest and bring the ball to ground.
If he can kick 40+ goals in a year whilst rotating between ruck/forward - that's a success and I can't understand how that's debatable.

 

[jackcass]

maybe but nothing as different as Saturday's. I define "making moves" as doing something innovative during a match not the same old "move Cox into the ruck and Grundy to the interchange" stuff. He even tried Berg in the forward line. When has that sort of thing happened regularly in the past?

In Buck's early days he tried new moves like Lumumba on a wing, Goldy up forward but his magnetic board activity has had a sameness in the last few years

I think the last couple of seasons that's been restricted by the players available. In a perfect world I'm sure he'd love to have the flexibility of a stable best 22. That just hasn't been the case.

 

[jackcass]

I don't agree with that at all... Everyone has a different role to play.

We have Varcoe, Elliot, Fasolo et all for F50 pressure acts.

We need goals - or someone that can halve a contest and bring the ball to ground.
If he can kick 40+ goals in a year - that's a success and I can't understand how that's debatable.

I agree. I think he's not hit the scoreboard enough this year. He's averaged 1.1 goals a game which has him ranked 72nd but if he'd managed last years 1.6 he'd be ranked 33rd in the league. If he can push 2 goals or better a game then he hits the top 20 league wide.

 

[MISFITS]

Enter ruck assistant coach
Damien Monkhorst.
He has had success with big men in the swing ruck/forward rotations role at the Hawks

 

[Saintly Viewed]

With respect to Leigh - 2 goals a game equals 44 for the year.

Are you telling me if Cox kicked 44 goals in a year - he hasn't met minimum requirement to make it a win?

Remembering:

• In the last 18 years, only 9 times has our leading goal scorer kick 40+ goals in a season
• We haven't had a player kick more than 40 goals in a year since Cloke kicked 68 in 2013

You guys just confusing me now.
44 goals would do very nicely.

But Leigh says.... it follows it will make sense

 

[Justlokan]

I think the last couple of seasons that's been restricted by the players available. In a perfect world I'm sure he'd love to have the flexibility of a stable best 22. That just hasn't been the case.

not so sure about that. Beveridge didn't have a stable 22 last year. Injuries do hurt I give you that but it's how you react that matters.
If Bucks' argument was about giving players time to develop in one role I could accept that but he also seemed reluctant to play the kids and kept playing Blair

 

[jackcass]

not so sure about that. Beveridge didn't have a stable 22 last year. Injuries do hurt I give you that but it's how you react that matters.
If Bucks' argument was about giving players time to develop in one role I could accept that but he also seemed reluctant to play the kids and kept playing Blair

When you're regularly playing the youngest and least experienced team week to week the choice of Blair over yet another young and inexperienced player is an obvious one.

 

[gutsroy]

Is there anything to the talk that Cox may move on to greener pastures? Think Brian Waldron was one who mentioned it(?), no idea what his mail is like.

 

[pablo disco bar]

Can we merge the dual cox threads mods?

 

[Quicky]

Can we merge the dual cox threads mods?

No. It's a relevant topic and deserves it's own discussion. And the player watch threads are usually boring amalgams anyway.

 

[Quicky]

I agree with the comments that for it to work Grundy needs to continue taking marks. His performance came out of the blue and it's hard tell if it was a fluke until he can do it again. But he always surprises and I wouldn't put it past him to have thst development in him. When they're both floating through and taking marks it looks really dangerous. With Cox also like the flexibility to throw him behind the ball to help protect scoring opportunities towards the end of quarters or in periods of opposition momentum.

 

[Ted Parker]

Based on our current list, absolutely. Grundy continues to take the centre ruck, and works the middle during the game as a kick to target, he's a great lead-up mobile mark.
But does he need to cover the whole ground? Ease his workload by better utilising Cox & Moore at stoppages at either end.

Cox as permanent forward can also do the forward 50 tap work at stoppages. He's only played a handful of games and delivered more than most other options we've tried over the last 5 years. (White, Mayne, Lynch)
If we end up drafting / trading in a better option all well and good.

Moore to CHB. Handles backline stoppage ruck work.

Moore at CHB will be a gun.

 

[legendstatus]

An in form Cox & in form Grundy can.


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[Finnishpie]

No. Too top heavy.

 

[Gone Critical]

I think this can work and will work as Grundy doing the bulk of the ruckwork while Cox spends more times forward. Ryder and maybe Lobb excepted Cox is the only ruckman in the AFL who is naturally dangerous as a forward. Going on the limited games he played this year he is the no 1 ruckman for goals per game. He is only behind Ryder, Lobb and Jacobs for contested marks per game. As evidenced by his VFL form in the later part of the year and the last few AFL games he is still rapidly improving in both these areas and its the key to a ruckman who will kick goals

I would forget the idea of Grundy becoming a goal kicker. 4 goals this season and 27 in an 82 game career is much more predictive of where he is. There are very few rucks who regularly kick goals in modern footy. The key to having 2 no1 ruck types in your team is if one of them can also be a goal kicker. Cox is the one who can make this combo work as he has the unique skill set. Grundy more than anything brings his work around the ground and ability to be involved in play other than the ruckwork.

 

[Darkyprotector]

That's easier said than done. You don't play football matches in a vacuum.

It was real easy for Richmond, shows what can happen when you let em play and don't over coach
Tipping the crows won't be anywhere as good next year
IMO Cameron a bigger loss than Lever
Won at least 5 games what I watched himself
No Cameron ( now no speed)
No lever
No smith
No Teague
Add Ben hart
Add Gibbs
Big negative

 

[doppleganger]

It will work if surrounded by smaller agile players.

Elliott, Goldsack, Fasolo, Kirby, DeGoey, Sier, Daicos, Sidebottom, Wills, Varcoe, Broomy, Wells, JT and even Pendles rotating as the other forwards.

Reid and Cox up forward won't work, neither are agile enough.

Put Moore behind the ball, with Reid and Howe also down back and all of a sudden our backline looks really strong for talls.

Just like in 2010, we had Dawes, L.Brown, Macaffer and Blair up forward and still were great because our mids like Didak, Swan, Beams, Sidey and Pendles would kick goals.

 

[Finnishpie]

It's not going to work ALL the time. It's really going to be a horses for course kind of thing I'd say.

What I like about Cox and Grundy vs Witts and Grundy is that I feel Cox and Grundy have a better balance.

Cox is becoming a good forward target who is more than capable in the ruck and Grundy is now effectively an elite ruckman who is serviceable in the forward line. I felt Witts and Grundy were both primarily ruckmen who couldn't really play forward so having them both in together was a liability.

I like the balance that's struck having Grundy and Cox, especially as they get better as players.

But as I alluded to earlier, I don't think it works against the smaller, quicker sides.

Yep, agree. On a wet windy day, one will get dropped. Dry and calm days we’ll see them both in the team, alternating forward/ruck - and it’s good to have them both in case one gets injured.

 

[magpies42]

I think with quicker ball movement and Darcy down back, we can play cox one out as the single tall in the forward line. Deep forward

 

[Carringbush2010]

All hinges on opposition/venue/conditions etc. as Speshal ed mentioned it won't be all the time. We've seen it can work just depends on the grey areas

 

[Vedder]

Cox and Grundy(s), works for me

 

[Busse]

who would have thought 10 years ago (when Josh Fraser was no. 1) that we would have this sort of problem. Its great to see!

 

[Justlokan]

who would have thought 10 years ago (when Josh Fraser was no. 1) that we would have this sort of problem. Its great to see!

Agreed - brings back non-fond memories of Chris Bryan and Guy Richards being torn apart by Brad Ottens.

 

[nahnah]

yes it does work, they've already proven it

 

[DERKADERRR]

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/video/2017-12-06/two-teams-train-together

Judging from this video it seems Brodie is reluctant to spend more time as a forward. I'm honestly all for him spending more time there, I feel like up until the final game against Melbourne we had barely seen him play there in the last few years even when we tried playing two rucks, I thought he showed himself to be rather capable in Round 23 (he just needs to work on his set shot kicking).