Preview Changes & Pre-match Discussion - Round 2 vs. Carlton, MCG Thurs 25/03 @ 7:20pm

[bunter]

Complaints about daicos being played forward, is it because he had off season surgery and being eased back? wing is hard running and we now have reduced interchange for rotations.

 

[peter moore]

Throughout his entire tenure as coach, I have never understood how Buckley, an extraordinarily skilful player, has been so driven to select, and remain loyal to, low-skilled hard-working types who are bereft of any X-factor.

It defies comprehension. I call it the Buckley Paradox.


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Thought the same many times.

 

[TradeDraft]

Here you go Dave:

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Thanks neilk

 

[pablo disco bar]

Worried about biancos knee

Any news ?


Never seen the kid on the field

 

[Silky23]

I've posted this elsewhere online, so I'll post it here.

I think my problem with the club is that it can't decide what it wants to do or what it wants to be. I don't think you can go ahead and trade 3 best 22 players and bring in 8 18 year olds in one off-season and say that you still consider yourself a contender. Bringing in that volume of kids is a fair sign you're looking for a rejuvenation of the list and are entering a rebuild.

Having said that, having selection for the AAMI game, R1 game and R2 game featuring one new kid, one new kid and zero new kids consecutively isn't the right away to go about this rejuvenation/rebuild/re-whatever you want to call it. The selection committee is backing in a squad tomorrow night that is incredibly similar (in fact, almost identical) to the squad that played finals over 2018/19/20 despite the squad having very obvious deficiencies that have been found out on the big stage.

This isn't just a case of 18 year olds not being ready, it's a case of the selection committee not backing in the youth at the club. It's fine to sit there and say "what can this kid do better than an established player in his late 20s" but the problem is they're not actually being given an opportunity to showcase how they can be better even when there's ample opportunity to bring them in. Rantall is no longer a new player, and Murphy is entering his 4th year in the system. They are consistently being named as two of the hardest trainers at the club and being named in the bests in the reserves but can't crack it. Rantall can't even get named as an emergency. These are no longer fresh players that just need a little bit more development time. Naming a squad that has shown on a number of occasions to not being able to get the job done smacks of that old adage about what the definition of insanity is.

When a kid finally does break through, ie Daicos, he is now being put back into a position where he floundered previously, and is similarly floundering now. This spinning of the wheels is quite troubling imho.

The squad named for tomorrow night looks tired.

Mate this is absolutely spot on. Could not have worded my thoughts any better than this.

 

[TradeDraft]

Absolutely appalling that Hoskin-Elliott has been selected, and Josh Thomas.

Ruscoe and Henry omissions were obvious.




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So we need to bring in a Whole New Forward Line?

 

[Aussie pie]

Personally I’d prefer Ashling Sheridan and Chloe Molloy in our forward line tomorrow.

 

[Leviathan Pie]

The most frustrating part of it all is that because the witches hats up forward (we know who they are) can’t play their roles we have to use blokes like JDG Daicos and Sidey in the forward half to try and spark a winning score when their best footy is played higher up the ground. Means Cal and Tyler Brown will probably get 10-15 CBA’s and we will get smashed in the middle again with our one pace slow midfield who isn’t dynamic whatsoever and Daicos will run around again getting 5 touches and JDG will get frozen f***** ankles.

You think De Goey’s best footy has been played up the ground?

Surely you jest?

 

[slugger01]

Personally I’d prefer Ashling Sheridan and Chloe Molloy in our forward line tomorrow.

Chloe Molloy is an absolute gun, and is a lock in our forward line. Faster, stronger, more skill, has a lot more aggression, and can kick further than some in there ATM..

 

[Jen2310]

Worried about biancos knee

Any news ?


Never seen the kid on the field

Had a contusion in his knee, they had the fluid drained. Just waiting for the swelling to go down.Hopefully next week we get an update

 

[jmac70]

Loving all the Chloe Molloy posts, just so original and funny.

 

[pies 4 ever]

Some draftees, like Poulter, played a near-full season in SA, while others, like Macrae, just seem to have an engine. Henry was never in either category.
And as for Murphy, Wilson and Rantall, who all have at least a couple of ore-seasons under their belts, why not play them and find out if they’re up to it or not?
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Point taken, but how did Keane and Lynch go last year, they also had experience in the 2nds, in 2019.
McCreery is the possible exception as he played SANFL.
Not sure if Poulter played SANFL or NAB (happy to be proven wrong), but he hasn't been talked about as senior material at this stage of his career.

 

[Silky23]

You think De Goey’s best footy has been played up the ground?

Surely you jest?

I think his scope and where he could project as a footballer points to his best footy being played around the footy and in the midfield yes.
He has all the right traits - speed, power, agility, strength and has a very very good success rate in contests.
His best work would be to split his time in both areas of the field much like Dusty and Trac do. He is wasted playing a Toby Greene full time forward role .. he is not that good and I feel he goes missing from games too much to be a full time small forward, he is better than that. If we are to move forward and become a top tier club Jordy needs to touch it 20-25 times a game because when he gets it he’s a spark for us and makes things happen. Plus I’d rather Jordy around the footy then a Cal Brown or someone of the like in there because it’s just a waste.
Play JDG where he was drafted.

 

[MagicGnome97]

People wanted Henry dropped. Well he was guys now you get to see Callum running around and barely kicking 40 metres.

still miles better than henry

 

[MagicGnome97]

Curious question - would Sidebottom be in this week if our midfield had dominated in Round 1 and we’d won?

yes, *ed question

 

[Leviathan Pie]

I think his scope and where he could project as a footballer points to his best footy being played around the footy and in the midfield yes.
He has all the right traits - speed, power, agility, strength and has a very very good success rate in contests.
His best work would be to split his time in both areas of the field much like Dusty and Trac do. He is wasted playing a Toby Greene full time forward role .. he is not that good and I feel he goes missing from games too much to be a full time small forward, he is better than that. If we are to move forward and become a top tier club Jordy needs to touch it 20-25 times a game because when he gets it he’s a spark for us and makes things happen. Plus I’d rather Jordy around the footy then a Cal Brown or someone of the like in there because it’s just a waste.
Play JDG where he was drafted.

Disagree entirely - was arguably the best forward in the game finishing 2018.
Too much speculation in regards to playing a role up the ground.
We’ll need him to perform regardless over the next 2-4 years.

 

[TradeDraft]

Chloe Molloy is an absolute gun, and is a lock in our forward line. Faster, stronger, more skill, has a lot more aggression, and can kick further than some in there ATM..

Could get a Game with the Men/AFL Side

 

[Silky23]

Disagree entirely - was arguably the best forward in the game finishing 2018.
Too much speculation in regards to playing a role up the ground.
We’ll need him to perform regardless over the next 2-4 years.

As good as he was, 48 goals in 21 games as a full time forward is a solid return but most years that isn’t getting you close to a Coleman now is it.
You should ideally be asking 30-40 goals from your small forwards if you’re in a top 4 team and other players have the capability to do that. I assume you also argue Josh Thomas is one of the best forwards going around considering he kicked 35 in 2018, WHE snagged 39.
JDG’s projection as a midfielder far outweighs his capabilities as a forward. JT and WHE don’t have the scope to be top 5 mids in the game now do they?

Realistically there is no reason why JDG couldn’t go ahead and average 20-25 in the middle while kicking 25-30 resting forward. He’s a more damaging player for us if he plays in that MID/FWD mould.

 

[Billys Back]

I've seen many pie teams get flogged in round one and then deliver a brilliant performance the following week. It happens more often than you think.

What’s that got to do with my post?

 

[ksardog]

I think his scope and where he could project as a footballer points to his best footy being played around the footy and in the midfield yes.
He has all the right traits - speed, power, agility, strength and has a very very good success rate in contests.
His best work would be to split his time in both areas of the field much like Dusty and Trac do. He is wasted playing a Toby Greene full time forward role .. he is not that good and I feel he goes missing from games too much to be a full time small forward, he is better than that. If we are to move forward and become a top tier club Jordy needs to touch it 20-25 times a game because when he gets it he’s a spark for us and makes things happen. Plus I’d rather Jordy around the footy then a Cal Brown or someone of the like in there because it’s just a waste.
Play JDG where he was drafted.

I think DeGoey is a burst player, he needs a run on the ball each qtr. wouldn’t mind seeing he and Elliot swap over during games with their roles. Both can get clearances but both more importantly are capable of kicking multiple goals. At least then we can have a consistent impact in both areas on the ground from these two players

 

[Leviathan Pie]

As good as he was, 48 goals in 21 games as a full time forward is a solid return but most years that isn’t getting you close to a Coleman now is it.
You should ideally be asking 30-40 goals from your small forwards if you’re in a top 4 team and other players have the capability to do that. I assume you also argue Josh Thomas is one of the best forwards going around considering he kicked 35 in 2018, WHE snagged 39.
JDG’s projection as a midfielder far outweighs his capabilities as a forward. JT and WHE don’t have the scope to be top 5 mids in the game now do they?

Realistically there is no reason why JDG couldn’t go ahead and average 20-25 in the middle while kicking 25-30 resting forward. He’s a more damaging player for us if he plays in that MID/FWD mould.

Hoskin-Elliott & Thomas haven't gone a yard literally since 2018. They have no place in this De Goey discussion. But well done.

Jordan has still, even up to last year, shown he can be one of the best forwards in the game.

His midfield work so far hasn't even got close to his forward output. And thats the reality, everything is so far is speculation based on 'guessed' output.

80% fwd / 20% mid

 

[Silky23]

I think DeGoey is a burst player, he needs a run on the ball each qtr. wouldn’t mind seeing he and Elliot swap over during games with their roles. Both can get clearances but both more importantly are capable of kicking multiple goals. At least then we can have a consistent impact in both areas on the ground from these two players

Im guessing you also thought Petracca was a burst player too until he got given the opportunity and role.
I think Elliott isn’t a midfielder at all, he is a smart small forward who is great overhead and his best traits are utilised in the F50.

155 goals in 87 games (2013-17, 2019) suggest that too, he’s basically a 2 a goal game player.

Last year he played midfield / forward and kicked 8 goals on the year in 16 games. What good was that to us? Took away every single one of his strengths and tried to turn him into something he isn’t.

Elliott and JDG may look similiar but they are completely different players.

 

[Silky23]

Hoskin-Elliott & Thomas haven't gone a yard literally since 2018. They have no place in this De Goey discussion. But well done.

Jordan has still, even up to last year, shown he can be one of the best forwards in the game.

His midfield work so far hasn't even got close to his forward output. And thats the reality, everything is so far is speculation based on 'guessed' output.

80% fwd / 20% mid

Mate I would 100% agree with you if we had the class around the midfield like we did when we had Treloar, Beams, and Pendles / Sidey were 3 years younger. He got great volume and service, now our midfield is one paced and slow and JDG is the only difference maker in there that can provide us with a spark. I know it is 100% all pure guesswork but we need to at least see what he can do in there, if he flops after half a year there’s no issue in converting him to a stay at home forward.

I think it has to be a 60/40 mid / forward split, if he can dominate in his time spent forward and kick a goal or two plus add in the grunt and class around the pill he can provide we are a better team. My issue with Jordy is his inconsistencies, we are such a better team when he’s up and about and too often he sits in the goal square and can’t near it. If he can play around the footy and then move forward with confidence he could honestly be one of the best going around in the game.

 

[Billys Back]

Point taken, but how did Keane and Lynch go last year, they also had experience in the 2nds, in 2019.
McCreery is the possible exception as he played SANFL.
Not sure if Poulter played SANFL or NAB (happy to be proven wrong), but he hasn't been talked about as senior material at this stage of his career.

I hear what you’re saying and I think you are right.
What concerns me is that it seems the club doesn’t really have a strategy in place regarding these kids. We are not challenging this year. So why not put something in place on how we play the kids (ie do we aim to give each kid at least 3 games this season? Do we look to play 2 kids each game? Do we start with those kids you mentioned who played footy in 2020? Etc etc).
Game 2 and we have no kids from the latest 2 drafts.

 

[ksardog]

Im guessing you also thought Petracca was a burst player too until he got given the opportunity and role.
I think Elliott isn’t a midfielder at all, he is a smart small forward who is great overhead and his best traits are utilised in the F50.

155 goals in 87 games (2013-17, 2019) suggest that too, he’s basically a 2 a goal game player.

Last year he played midfield / forward and kicked 8 goals on the year in 16 games. What good was that to us? Took away every single one of his strengths and tried to turn him into something he isn’t.

Elliott and JDG may look similiar but they are completely different players.

Elliott is more of a marking player and leading forward than DeGoey, agreed , but DeGoey can go missing in the midfield, if he goes quiet, I would rather he be deep forward in the chance that he can get a goal rather than running around chasing kicks. He simply isnt good enough for long enough to be a permanent mid, that may come in time but we need to balance that out with the best result we can get from both players now.

Petracca gets golden service from a gun tap ruckman, we don’t get that benefit at Collingwood. So he has a head-start there already