Coach Chris Scott re-signs to 2022 (aka the Chris Scott discussion Part IV)

[Man0gwaR74]

Did you ever consider that maybe, just maybe, it is other people around the club who are incompetent and making stupid decisions, instead of Chris Scott?

Did you ever consider that maybe, just maybe, the buck stops with the coach? I think the most damning aspect for Chris Scott is form turnarounds when the Cats are expected to get smashed, suggests that it more about attitude than anything else!

 

[Catters 070911]

Did you ever consider that maybe, just maybe, the buck stops with the coach? I think the most damning aspect for Chris Scott is form turnarounds when the Cats are expected to get smashed, suggests that it more about attitude than anything else!

The buck stopping at the top is one of the stupidest philosophies I have ever heard.

People are responsible for their OWN actions. Chris Scott didn't stuff up Menzel's injection, a medical person did. It's not Chris Scott that doesn't tackle in finals, it's the players.

 

[Catters 070911]

Did you ever consider that maybe, just maybe, the buck stops with the coach? I think the most damning aspect for Chris Scott is form turnarounds when the Cats are expected to get smashed, suggests that it more about attitude than anything else!

Why not blame the president then? He hired the coach? Or blame Brian Cook, who hired Chris Scott?

Go follow another club!

 

[Man0gwaR74]

The buck stopping at the top is one of the stupidest philosophies I have ever heard.

Why not blame the president then? He hired the coach? Or blame Brian Cook, who hired Chris Scott?

Umm ...not sure if I need to say anything about stupidity there<_<

People are responsible for their OWN actions.

That's fine but we're not talking about people, we're talking about the coach of a professional football TEAM, not about individuals under his leadership!

Chris Scott didn't stuff up Menzel's injection, a medical person did. It's not Chris Scott that doesn't tackle in finals, it's the players.

But then it ok for Menzel to be made scapegoat for that? You think that Scott had no say in that outcome?!?

It wasn't Chris Scott's fault that you were born, that was your dad not wearing a condom.

WOAH ...easy there ...getting a bit personal there!

Everyone makes mistakes.

Ahhk alls forgiven

Go follow another club!

And I thought that we were starting to get along?!?<_<

 

[Vdubs]

1:- In 2007-2011, we had minimal injuries, and recovery time was two or three weeks. Since 2012, we have had at least one player in our best 22 miss 90% of games because of injury.

2:- I don't know whether the physio is your mate or what, but you seem to know their names, and what they do.

3:- How can you hold Chris Scott to account for not winning a flag, yet let the medical and fitness team off the hook for not preparing the team properly to avoid injuries.

How many players have been injured at pre-season training? I mean, how can you even get injured BEFORE the season?

4:- Doctors, in society, as well as at footy clubs, need to be held more accountable when they mess it up. The person who injected Menzel wrongly should have got as much criticism as players do when they mess up, as doctors' actions affect lives. What if Menzel had got an infection from the wrong injection and died, or he had an allergic reaction and it ended his career? What does it take for the medical professional who should know better to lose their licence? Society puts too much faith in doctors, and don't ask enough questions. Doctors and medical professionals should be held to a higher standard, because people's health and lives depend on them getting it right every time.

5:- You can't say for sure that it ISN'T medical or high performance mismanagement that is responsible for some of the injury problems that we have.

6:- "It is a contact sport"- Guess what, Richmond play in the AFL as well, and haven't had a major injury for TWO years. They started to get a couple near finals this year, and failed to make the Grand Final.

The more injuries a team has, the less chance they have of winning a flag.

Name me one premiership side who had at least six of their best 22 injured for long stretches of the season, and yet still won the flag? Didn't think you could.

Well, if it was luck we had in 2007-11, then it is purely bad luck we are having now (according to you), so, therefore, it is bad luck, not Chris Scott, who is stopping us from winning flags.

Also, what about blaming players? It isn't Chris Scott's job to tackle players in finals games, it is the player's. How about holding players responsible for constant finals failures, as what they do on the field matters, and they are the ones choosing not to chase and tackle in finals.

As for Gary Rohan, I don't know if he will be any good or not, but he cost us little (Pick 65) and he was a regular in a better team than ours (Sydney Swans) whereas Murodch couldn't cement a spot regularly, and had many chances to shine, and hadn't done it.

1. Agree. Why can you ascribe a cause for that fact?
2. The physio/doc's names are well known to long term Cats supporters, and neither are friends. As I work in this area, I am aware of every Victorian team's personnel, and most interstaters as well.
3. I do NOT hold CS to account for us NOT getting to GF's or winning flags. Perhaps you should read more carefully before jumping at shadows.
4. In case you were not aware, they don't hand out these jobs at Clubs like Geelong to anybody at all. The selection process is stringent, and once you're in the system, there is an annual compulsory conference to attend, as well as having to keep up with the latest research and treatments.
You have no idea what happened to Menzel, so it's not good "practice" to cast aspersions on people who may not have been responsible at all.
5. Oh yes I can. If there was any inadequacy, they would have been shown the door by now.
6. What are you preaching about here? I've already said that about injuries. We copped them a lot, and that IS a major reason for our inconsistency, and when we don't get them, it is beneficial. We have delisted Cowan, Gregson, Menzel, McCarthy, Thurlow- what had they in common? Yes, injury prone. We have not terminated the high performance team.
I have NEVER blamed CS ; in fact, most people who read BF properly think I am his biggest fan, along with GC26. And yes, I mainly blame the players for not getting their stuff together when it counts.
Rohan's stats this year make Murdoch look like a great get by GC. Not sure why we decided his use by date with us was up. Anyway, as said before, that is personal preference.

 

[Man0gwaR74]

I have NEVER blamed CS, I mainly blame the players for not getting their stuff together when it counts.

This is prolly my biggest issue with Chris Scott and why do you assume that he should be detached from responsibility for that?!?

 

[And_ROOS]

Scott's gameplan doesn't differ that much from Bomber's gameplan.

Maybe we need to recruit tougher and more durable players.

While the players make a big difference in the effectiveness of the gameplan, how can you say that this gameplan doesn't differ that much?

Its been different since around 2013. Far far more handballs, protecting the defence, and playing the wings more.

Under Thompson we were far more direct, and went up the middle of the ground more often.

 

[David the Cat]

Why not blame the president then? He hired the coach? Or blame Brian Cook, who hired Chris Scott?

Go follow another club!

Its not for you to tell other posters to go follow another club. You did the same in another thread.....all posters on here are Geelong supporters and entitled to say their bit without you telling them to go follow another club.

Settle!

And accept others have a different view to you, without resorting to personal invective. Man0gwaR74 's father isn't relevant to this discussion either btw.....

 

[Catters 070911]

While the players make a big difference in the effectiveness of the gameplan, how can you say that this gameplan doesn't differ that much?

Its been different since around 2013. Far far more handballs, protecting the defence, and playing the wings more.

Under Thompson we were far more direct, and went up the middle of the ground more often.

Except that teams figured that out, and blocked up the middle of the ground, so we couldn't play down it any more.

CS tried to change the gameplan because the old gameplan got figured out, and we don't have the players with the talent to carry out that old gameplan any more.

 

[Catters 070911]

Its not for you to tell other posters to go follow another club. You did the same in another thread.....all posters on here are Geelong supporters and entitled to say their bit without you telling them to go follow another club.

Settle!

And accept others have a different view to you, without resorting to personal invective. Man0gwaR74 's father isn't relevant to this discussion either btw.....

Why shouldn't I? When all I hear from some posters is negativity, and they can't give any positives, then why even follow us anymore?

I come on here for intelligent discussion with people who actually add something to the conversation, who provide thought-out reasons for their opinion, rather than parroting what the popular view is.

For example, if people are going to bag Chris Scott and want him sacked, provide a realistic alternative who could do better. Don't just say "Sack Chris Scott. He sucks....".

All I read is criticisms, but few suggestions on how to improve things.

How do you know that posters from other clubs aren't on here, and just put "Geelong" as their club so that they wouldn't get modded?

You are either for us or against us. Get behind the club, or piss off to another board. Only true supporters, not negative nellies, should post here.

 

[Catters 070911]

Umm ...not sure if I need to say anything about stupidity there<_<

That's fine but we're not talking about people, we're talking about the coach of a professional football TEAM, not about individuals under his leadership!

But then it ok for Menzel to be made scapegoat for that? You think that Scott had no say in that outcome?!?

WOAH ...easy there ...getting a bit personal there!

Ahhk alls forgiven

And I thought that we were starting to get along?!?<_<

So you don't hold the players to account for not tackling in finals?

Okay, then I never want to see a post by you again where you are critical of any player, since you think that all the players' actions are the coach's fault.

So, if you hold CS 100% responsible for all our failures, then it is only fair that if we win a flag in the next couple of years, that means that CS is 100% responsible for it. Not the players, not anyone else at the club. If you won't partly blame the players for their own finals performances, then you can't give them credit for when they get it right. You can't have it both ways.

Look, stop pretending like you have a legitimate point. You hate Chris Scott's guts. I get it. Just admit it, so that we can then take your criticisms of him with the grain of salt it deserves.

Besides, the president and the board appoint a coach, so, technically, the president is "the buck stopping at the top". So, under your reasoning, that means that the president is to blame for appointing Chris Scott to begin with.

Also, who should be held to account for Menzel getting an injection in the wrong place, and getting an infection because of it. Is it Menzel's fault, or the person who gave an injection, who should know better and not make mistakes like that? What if the botched injection had been career-ending or paralysed or life-threatening, would you hold the practitioner to account then? Or have you been brainwashed by the media and society who tell you never to question doctors and hold them up as God?

 

[Catters 070911]

Post full of bullsh!t.

I wasn't responding to you, so keep out of it.

However, you are one of the most negative posters to ever post of this board, and come across as a Grade A miseryguts. Your response to my post reflects every single post you write.

 

[David the Cat]

I wasn't responding to you, so keep out of it.

However, you are one of the most negative posters to ever post of this board, and come across as a Grade A miseryguts. Your response to my post reflects every single post you write.

Time for you to cool off ... enjoy your day off relaxing ...

 

[David the Cat]

The topic is Chris Scott.....there's a little too much focus in here on individual posters rather than opinions on topic....

So lets all settle down...the draft is imminent...far more relevant than CS right now....

 

[Man0gwaR74]

Comments like this portray a closed mind to intelligent conversation and more of a willingness to exchange insults:

The buck stopping at the top is one of the stupidest philosophies I have ever heard.

So I salvaged one part of your reply that I thought I could reason with:

People are responsible for their OWN actions. Chris Scott didn't stuff up Menzel's injection, a medical person did. It's not Chris Scott that doesn't tackle in finals, it's the players.

I then asked you what I thought were 2 legitimate thought provoking questions about that to entice what I hoped may be an insightful discussion:

But then it ok for Menzel to be made scapegoat for that? You think that Scott had no say in that outcome?!?

I tried to spare us a lot of the back and forth in exchanges and as you say:

I come on here for intelligent discussion with people who actually add something to the conversation, who provide thought-out reasons for their opinion, rather than parroting what the popular view is.

So wasn't 'the popular view' that Menzel didn't provide enough defensive pressure on the forward line? You derailed my question by asking about this generalized view:

So you don't hold the players to account for not tackling in finals?

You weren't specific so I would assume that the answer to the above question depends largely on the player in question's role and how many opportunities to tackle the player(s) failed at?!? Now lemme rephrase that question; would I get rid of a player if he didn't perform well in the finals? >>>The answer would be to look at how that Caddy trade worked against us! So in reply to your question, NO! But for Caddy to struggle for form at the Cattery and then goto Tigerland to flourish, does add to my argument that Chris Scott is not a good coach and has to make you wonder if Menzel is another that has fallen victim to Scott's coaching methods! If Menzel excels at another club then added proof that SCOTT NEEDS TO GO!

You hate Chris Scott's guts.

Intelligent conversation? for 15yo's?!? Responding to an accusation like that doesn't actually get to the crutch of why I felt that way even if i did hate him and I'm here to elaborate on why I think he deserves to be sacked and not to play a game of 'he said, she said'.

Besides, the president and the board appoint a coach, so, technically, the president is "the buck stopping at the top". So, under your reasoning, that means that the president is to blame for appointing Chris Scott to begin with.

I never gave you my reasoning, you've been jumping to conclusions and misrepresenting my argument to begin with and never asked a reasonable question to find out how or what I thought! Not sure what you think a coach is responsible for but I would assume that the coach is responsible for the team that takes to the field each week of the footy season in an effort to play an elite level of professional football.

 

[Catters 070911]

Comments like this portray a closed mind to intelligent conversation and more of a willingness to exchange insults:

So I salvaged one part of your reply that I thought I could reason with:

I then asked you what I thought were 2 legitimate thought provoking questions about that to entice what I hoped may be an insightful discussion:
I tried to spare us a lot of the back and forth in exchanges and as you say:

So wasn't 'the popular view' that Menzel didn't provide enough defensive pressure on the forward line? You derailed my question by asking about this generalized view:

You weren't specific so I would assume that the answer to the above question depends largely on the player in question's role and how many opportunities to tackle the player(s) failed at?!? Now lemme rephrase that question; would I get rid of a player if he didn't perform well in the finals? >>>The answer would be to look at how that Caddy trade worked against us! So in reply to your question, NO! But for Caddy to struggle for form at the Cattery and then goto Tigerland to flourish, does add to my argument that Chris Scott is not a good coach and has to make you wonder if Menzel is another that has fallen victim to Scott's coaching methods! If Menzel excels at another club then added proof that SCOTT NEEDS TO GO!

Intelligent conversation? for 15yo's?!? Responding to an accusation like that doesn't actually get to the crutch of why I felt that way even if i did hate him and I'm here to elaborate on why I think he deserves to be sacked and not to play a game of 'he said, she said'.

I never gave you my reasoning, you've been jumping to conclusions and misrepresenting my argument to begin with and never asked a reasonable question to find out how or what I thought! Not sure what you think a coach is responsible for but I would assume that the coach is responsible for the team that takes to the field each week of the footy season in an effort to play an elite level of professional football.

No, the "popularview" was that Menzel shouldn't be delisted, despite having bung knees and not tackling enough. Also, FYI, the club offered him one year, like they have other years, and he wants two years. I see both sides, but to give two years is a massive risk given his injury history. Let's see if another club wants to roll the dice and give a guy who has had four knee reconstructions a two-year contract.

Caddy was lazy, and didn't play to his best at Geelong. But, moreover, it hurt us because he lied to us.

Caddy was approached by the club, and told that Richmond wanted him in exchange for Brett Deledio. Caddy said "No", that he had just bought a house in Geelong, and wanted to stay. Geelong were about to tell Richmond that Caddy didn't want to join them, when Deledio pulled out and joined GWS. Caddy seemed happy to stay, and the club were happy to keep him.

But then, his mate Dion Prestia joined Richmond, and then approached Caddy to join him at Richmond. Caddy and Prestia were best mates at Gold Coast, so Caddy, who had told us he loved the club, wanted to stay and had just bought a house in Geelong, confirming his love of the area, jumped to Richmond so he could play with his mate, a mate who had nominated Richmond a week earlier and was always going to join. But did Caddy agree to the trade with Richmond when Geelong could have benefitted out of it? No. Instead, he left when it suited him, and we missed out on Deledio and lost Caddy. We are better off without someone of Josh Caddy's duplicitous and selfish character.

You say Scott needs to go. Okay then, some questions, since you want me to ask some.

-Did you want Bomber sacked in 2006 as well? How did you feel when they kept him? Why couldn't the club do the same thing with Chris Scott? How would you feel if the club, instead, put people around Scott, like they did with Bomber, so that he could focus on coaching? How would you feel if the club decided to do everything to help CS succeed before sacking him?

-If the club sacks Scott, who replaces him? Go on, name me an assistant coach who has a better coaching average out there. Can you GUARANTEE that the next coach will get us a flag with this group?

-If the "buck stops at the top", then why not blame those who appointed Chris Scott as coach? Sure, the coach is responsible for team performance, but the club is responsible for appointing the right coach. You feel that Scott is a hack, then how come you don't blame the president and the board for appointing a "hack" when there are better coaches, IYO, instead?

-Also, if it comes to the performance of the team, then what about the captain, and the leadership group? Do you blame Joel Selwood or the leadership team for not leading by example in finals? Or, if they are, how come some other players aren't following their example on the field?

-Isn't it entirely possible that there are multiple reasons that the club has failed to win a flag in the last seven years (hell, if you complain about a seven year drought, you would have been impossible to deal with during our 44-year premiership drought)? Couldn't it be our list letting us down, or other issues? What if changing the coach doesn't solve the underlying problems at all? What then?

-Do you blame every coach between Bob Davis and Mark Thompson, who failed to coach us to flags during our 44 year drought? Did you call for them to be sacked as well? If not, why not? At least Scott has a premiership on his CV. Coaches like Hafey, Devine, Blight and Ayres didn't, (at least, not at Geelong).

-What if Chris Scott gets sacked, gets picked up by another club, and coaches them to a flag? Scott's w-l coaching record is one of the best statistically in history, so he will have other suitors. Who is to say that, with a better list than Geelong has at the moment, he won't coach another side to a flag, and they win it instead of us. Remember that many here have said that Scott had a good team at his disposal in 2011, so if a team with a good list got him after we sacked him, he might make us end up paying for it.

-Can you guarantee that a new coach will have a better record in h & a games, or in finals, or win us a flag? Because, unless you can guarantee that the coach you want is going to deliver more WITH THIS CURRENT LIST, then it is better "the devil you know"?

-What do you want more, for Chris Scott to coach us to another flag, or for CS to fail? I get the impression that you secretly hope that Scott doesn't coach us to another flag so he can get sacked. You would rather be right than see your team succeed. Would you prefer that we win a flag in 2019, even though Chris Scott will be our coach, or wait until we have a new coach before we win our next one?

So, there you go. You wanted questions, I gave you questions. I am very interested to see how you answer them, although I think I know some of the answers already.

Chris Scott is a premiership coach, has coached us to finals every year except one, and has a better win-loss record than most coaches over their career. If you don't like the bloke, say so. But don't rewrite history and say that he hasn't achieved when he has.

 

[Vdubs]

No, the "popularview" was that Menzel shouldn't be delisted, despite having bung knees and not tackling enough. Also, FYI, the club offered him one year, like they have other years, and he wants two years. I see both sides, but to give two years is a massive risk given his injury history. Let's see if another club wants to roll the dice and give a guy who has had four knee reconstructions a two-year contract.

Caddy was lazy, and didn't play to his best at Geelong. But, moreover, it hurt us because he lied to us.

Caddy was approached by the club, and told that Richmond wanted him in exchange for Brett Deledio. Caddy said "No", that he had just bought a house in Geelong, and wanted to stay. Geelong were about to tell Richmond that Caddy didn't want to join them, when Deledio pulled out and joined GWS. Caddy seemed happy to stay, and the club were happy to keep him.

But then, his mate Dion Prestia joined Richmond, and then approached Caddy to join him at Richmond. Caddy and Prestia were best mates at Gold Coast, so Caddy, who had told us he loved the club, wanted to stay and had just bought a house in Geelong, confirming his love of the area, jumped to Richmond so he could play with his mate, a mate who had nominated Richmond a week earlier and was always going to join. But did Caddy agree to the trade with Richmond when Geelong could have benefitted out of it? No. Instead, he left when it suited him, and we missed out on Deledio and lost Caddy. We are better off without someone of Josh Caddy's duplicitous and selfish character.

You say Scott needs to go. Okay then, some questions, since you want me to ask some.

-Did you want Bomber sacked in 2006 as well? How did you feel when they kept him? Why couldn't the club do the same thing with Chris Scott? How would you feel if the club, instead, put people around Scott, like they did with Bomber, so that he could focus on coaching? How would you feel if the club decided to do everything to help CS succeed before sacking him?

-If the club sacks Scott, who replaces him? Go on, name me an assistant coach who has a better coaching average out there. Can you GUARANTEE that the next coach will get us a flag with this group?

-If the "buck stops at the top", then why not blame those who appointed Chris Scott as coach? Sure, the coach is responsible for team performance, but the club is responsible for appointing the right coach. You feel that Scott is a hack, then how come you don't blame the president and the board for appointing a "hack" when there are better coaches, IYO, instead?

-Also, if it comes to the performance of the team, then what about the captain, and the leadership group? Do you blame Joel Selwood or the leadership team for not leading by example in finals? Or, if they are, how come some other players aren't following their example on the field?

-Isn't it entirely possible that there are multiple reasons that the club has failed to win a flag in the last seven years (hell, if you complain about a seven year drought, you would have been impossible to deal with during our 44-year premiership drought)? Couldn't it be our list letting us down, or other issues? What if changing the coach doesn't solve the underlying problems at all? What then?

-Do you blame every coach between Bob Davis and Mark Thompson, who failed to coach us to flags during our 44 year drought? Did you call for them to be sacked as well? If not, why not? At least Scott has a premiership on his CV. Coaches like Hafey, Devine, Blight and Ayres didn't, (at least, not at Geelong).

-What if Chris Scott gets sacked, gets picked up by another club, and coaches them to a flag? Scott's w-l coaching record is one of the best statistically in history, so he will have other suitors. Who is to say that, with a better list than Geelong has at the moment, he won't coach another side to a flag, and they win it instead of us. Remember that many here have said that Scott had a good team at his disposal in 2011, so if a team with a good list got him after we sacked him, he might make us end up paying for it.

-Can you guarantee that a new coach will have a better record in h & a games, or in finals, or win us a flag? Because, unless you can guarantee that the coach you want is going to deliver more WITH THIS CURRENT LIST, then it is better "the devil you know"?

-What do you want more, for Chris Scott to coach us to another flag, or for CS to fail? I get the impression that you secretly hope that Scott doesn't coach us to another flag so he can get sacked. You would rather be right than see your team succeed. Would you prefer that we win a flag in 2019, even though Chris Scott will be our coach, or wait until we have a new coach before we win our next one?

So, there you go. You wanted questions, I gave you questions. I am very interested to see how you answer them, although I think I know some of the answers already.

Chris Scott is a premiership coach, has coached us to finals every year except one, and has a better win-loss record than most coaches over their career. If you don't like the bloke, say so. But don't rewrite history and say that he hasn't achieved when he has.

I for one agree with every one of those points, always have.
Excellent post.

 

[Man0gwaR74]

No, the "popularview" was that Menzel shouldn't be delisted, despite having bung knees and not tackling enough. Also, FYI, the club offered him one year, like they have other years, and he wants two years. I see both sides, but to give two years is a massive risk given his injury history. Let's see if another club wants to roll the dice and give a guy who has had four knee reconstructions a two-year contract.

No, that was the general view from a Cats supporter's perspective. The most popular view to justify the club's direction that they have chosen to take was that he can't tackle or add defensive pressure and I would tend to agree with that to some extent but should Chris Scott be expecting that from him or should he be(or has he been) trying to tweak the team forward strategy to work to Menzel's strengths?!?

Caddy was lazy, and didn't play to his best at Geelong. But, moreover, it hurt us because he lied to us.

That's ignorant to say that coz Caddy hasn't had that problem at Tigerland but if he was lazy at the Cattery before then Chris Scott cops the blame coz it his job to motivate his players and get the most out of them and find a way to get every player invested in trying to create a winning culture at the club just like what Richmond have done through Hardwick.

But then, his mate Dion Prestia joined Richmond, and then approached Caddy to join him at Richmond. Caddy and Prestia were best mates at Gold Coast, so Caddy, who had told us he loved the club, wanted to stay and had just bought a house in Geelong, confirming his love of the area, jumped to Richmond so he could play with his mate, a mate who had nominated Richmond a week earlier and was always going to join. But did Caddy agree to the trade with Richmond when Geelong could have benefitted out of it? No. Instead, he left when it suited him, and we missed out on Deledio and lost Caddy. We are better off without someone of Josh Caddy's duplicitous and selfish character.
Caddy was approached by the club, and told that Richmond wanted him in exchange for Brett Deledio. Caddy said "No", that he had just bought a house in Geelong, and wanted to stay. Geelong were about to tell Richmond that Caddy didn't want to join them, when Deledio pulled out and joined GWS. Caddy seemed happy to stay, and the club were happy to keep him.

IMO the Cats burned their bridge with Caddy when they showed that he was expendable, so I don't have an issue with Caddy for not feeling the love and moving on! It's a cut throat business and I was ALL FOR Deledio coming here even for Caddy but it turned out not to be such a great trade for the Cats as GWS has found out. I think Caddy was contracted so the Cats could have prevented that move right?!? letting Caddy go for less than what we gave up for him after he had developed, was always gonna be a steal for the Tiges!

You say Scott needs to go. Okay then, some questions, since you want me to ask some.
-Did you want Bomber sacked in 2006 as well? How did you feel when they kept him? Why couldn't the club do the same thing with Chris Scott? How would you feel if the club, instead, put people around Scott, like they did with Bomber, so that he could focus on coaching? How would you feel if the club decided to do everything to help CS succeed before sacking him?

LOL ohhh shiiit THE JIG IS UP! never hated Bomber being coach until after he displayed his incompetence and made those HUGE mistakes in the 2008 GF that fully played into Alastair Clarkson's gameplan! Both Scott and Bomber have said some reprehensible things as coaches.

-If the "buck stops at the top", then why not blame those who appointed Chris Scott as coach? Sure, the coach is responsible for team performance, but the club is responsible for appointing the right coach. You feel that Scott is a hack, then how come you don't blame the president and the board for appointing a "hack" when there are better coaches, IYO, instead?

Can't disrespect every part of the process! My beef is with the coach, not with the club executives! I respect their position but it doesn't mean that I'll stop calling out for the sacking of the coach coz I have seen enough evidence to know that the Cats wouldn't do much worse with a change of coach and it's worth taking that risk to find someone that can do a better job!

-Also, if it comes to the performance of the team, then what about the captain, and the leadership group? Do you blame Joel Selwood or the leadership team for not leading by example in finals? Or, if they are, how come some other players aren't following their example on the field?

It is up to the coach to lay down the foundation to nurture a team culture that encourages accountability and high performance.

-Isn't it entirely possible that there are multiple reasons that the club has failed to win a flag in the last seven years (hell, if you complain about a seven year drought, you would have been impossible to deal with during our 44-year premiership drought)? Couldn't it be our list letting us down, or other issues? What if changing the coach doesn't solve the underlying problems at all? What then?

Purrrfection is what used to be the Cats' marketing slogan and that is something that the Cats should always be striving for if they are being sincere with their paying members! It is the coach's responsibility to be proactive in addressing those multiple reasons for failure and try to keep ahead of the competition. Chris Scott has become comfortable with mediocrity and that is why HE NEEDS TO GO! Keep turning over coaches until a Hardwick or Clarkson comes along! Eventually the Cats would find a coach that would have the passion and mental aptitude to be able to take the Cats to the big dance!

-Do you blame every coach between Bob Davis and Mark Thompson, who failed to coach us to flags during our 44 year drought? Did you call for them to be sacked as well? If not, why not? At least Scott has a premiership on his CV. Coaches like Hafey, Devine, Blight and Ayres didn't, (at least, not at Geelong).

Of course, why not call for their sacking if they cannot find the chemistry to make a team primed for a flag. If they aren't maintaining an environment conducive to a winning culture then cleanse and start again with fresh leadership!

-What if Chris Scott gets sacked, gets picked up by another club, and coaches them to a flag? Scott's w-l coaching record is one of the best statistically in history, so he will have other suitors. Who is to say that, with a better list than Geelong has at the moment, he won't coach another side to a flag, and they win it instead of us. Remember that many here have said that Scott had a good team at his disposal in 2011, so if a team with a good list got him after we sacked him, he might make us end up paying for it.

It won't happen, but If by some miracle it did, then good on him! Chris Scott inherited one of the best teams in history! how many coaches come walk into a dynasty era of a club with arguably the best Full Back of all time, A tagger that redefined the game and a team of about 8 All Australian players on its list and a winning culture already built by the playing group.

-Can you guarantee that a new coach will have a better record in h & a games, or in finals, or win us a flag? Because, unless you can guarantee that the coach you want is going to deliver more WITH THIS CURRENT LIST, then it is better "the devil you know"?

It's irrelevant coz Chris Scott didn't come during the lows of the club like a Hardwick or his Bro. You can't make comparisons like that and suggest that it coz he a great coach coz he had one of the greatest Cats teams ever and got taught a lot of how to coach through those players. NO NEVER SETTLE FOR MEDIOCRITY coz that brings about a losing culture!

-What do you want more, for Chris Scott to coach us to another flag, or for CS to fail? I get the impression that you secretly hope that Scott doesn't coach us to another flag so he can get sacked. You would rather be right than see your team succeed. Would you prefer that we win a flag in 2019, even though Chris Scott will be our coach, or wait until we have a new coach before we win our next one?

No I want Chris Scott GONE! CS has gone as far as I think he is ever gonna go with the Cats, he's become too comfortable with his position and that is why it is time for a change!

So, there you go. You wanted questions, I gave you questions. I am very interested to see how you answer them, although I think I know some of the answers already.

And I spent the time to answer them honestly. Yes it was very civil of you to goto such an effort and thank you for spending the time and thought to put it together.

Chris Scott is a premiership coach, has coached us to finals every year except one, and has a better win-loss record than most coaches over their career. If you don't like the bloke, say so. But don't rewrite history and say that he hasn't achieved when he has.

I know what I know and that is that the payers won that flag for him. He had one of the easiest rides to a flag in VFL/AFL history as a rookie but it was a mutually beneficial thing coz the players needed a coach that was prepared to take a back seat and that was perfect for Scott!

 

[Max Milburn]

Kudos. Getting up at 6am to write War & Peace!
That's passion.

 

[JumpyHolden]

What if Chris Scott gets sacked, gets picked up by another club, and coaches them to a flag? Scott's w-l coaching record is one of the best statistically in history, so he will have other suitors. Who is to say that, with a better list than Geelong has at the moment, he won't coach another side to a flag, and they win it instead of us. Remember that many here have said that Scott had a good team at his disposal in 2011, so if a team with a good list got him after we sacked him, he might make us end up paying for it.

That's right, the only way he can win flags is if they are gifted to him like the 2011 was because he can't develop a side himself good enough to win one.

-Can you guarantee that a new coach will have a better record in h & a games, or in finals, or win us a flag? Because, unless you can guarantee that the coach you want is going to deliver more WITH THIS CURRENT LIST, then it is better "the devil you know"?

Haha not much to beat there

Chris Scott is a premiership coach, has coached us to finals every year except one, and has a better win-loss record than most coaches over their career. If you don't like the bloke, say so. But don't rewrite history and say that he hasn't achieved when he has.

Gifted premiership coach, hasn't been competitive in those finals and his win/loss record is enhanced by the home ground advantage and players he inherited.

 

[JumpyHolden]

Kudos. Getting up at 6am to write War & Peace!
That's passion.

Glad you haven't taken notice of the time i usually write mine.

 

[Max Milburn]

Glad you haven't taken notice of the time i usually write mine.

Looks like you slept in this morning.

 

[Catters 070911]

No, that was the general view from a Cats supporter's perspective. The most popular view to justify the club's direction that they have chosen to take was that he can't tackle or add defensive pressure and I would tend to agree with that to some extent but should Chris Scott be expecting that from him or should he be(or has he been) trying to tweak the team forward strategy to work to Menzel's strengths?!?

That's ignorant to say that coz Caddy hasn't had that problem at Tigerland but if he was lazy at the Cattery before then Chris Scott cops the blame coz it his job to motivate his players and get the most out of them and find a way to get every player invested in trying to create a winning culture at the club just like what Richmond have done through Hardwick.

IMO the Cats burned their bridge with Caddy when they showed that he was expendable, so I don't have an issue with Caddy for not feeling the love and moving on! It's a cut throat business and I was ALL FOR Deledio coming here even for Caddy but it turned out not to be such a great trade for the Cats as GWS has found out. I think Caddy was contracted so the Cats could have prevented that move right?!? letting Caddy go for less than what we gave up for him after he had developed, was always gonna be a steal for the Tiges!

LOL ohhh shiiit THE JIG IS UP! never hated Bomber being coach until after he displayed his incompetence and made those HUGE mistakes in the 2008 GF that fully played into Alastair Clarkson's gameplan! Both Scott and Bomber have said some reprehensible things as coaches.

Can't disrespect every part of the process! My beef is with the coach, not with the club executives! I respect their position but it doesn't mean that I'll stop calling out for the sacking of the coach coz I have seen enough evidence to know that the Cats wouldn't do much worse with a change of coach and it's worth taking that risk to find someone that can do a better job!

It is up to the coach to lay down the foundation to nurture a team culture that encourages accountability and high performance.

Purrrfection is what used to be the Cats' marketing slogan and that is something that the Cats should always be striving for if they are being sincere with their paying members! It is the coach's responsibility to be proactive in addressing those multiple reasons for failure and try to keep ahead of the competition. Chris Scott has become comfortable with mediocrity and that is why HE NEEDS TO GO! Keep turning over coaches until a Hardwick or Clarkson comes along! Eventually the Cats would find a coach that would have the passion and mental aptitude to be able to take the Cats to the big dance!

Of course, why not call for their sacking if they cannot find the chemistry to make a team primed for a flag. If they aren't maintaining an environment conducive to a winning culture then cleanse and start again with fresh leadership!

It won't happen, but If by some miracle it did, then good on him! Chris Scott inherited one of the best teams in history! how many coaches come walk into a dynasty era of a club with arguably the best Full Back of all time, A tagger that redefined the the game a team of about 8 All Australian players on its list and a winning culture already built by the playing group.

It's irrelevant coz Chris Scott didn't come during the lows of the club like a Hardwick or his Bro. You can't make comparisons like that and suggest that it coz he a great coach coz he had one of the greatest Cats teams ever and got taught a lot of how to coach through those players. NO NEVER SETTLE FOR MEDIOCRITY coz that brings about a losing culture!

No I want Chris Scott GONE! CS has gone as far as I think he is ever gonna go with the Cats, he's become too comfortable with his position and that is why it is time for a change!

And I spent the time to answer them honestly. Yes it was very civil of you to goto such an effort and thank you for spending the time and thought to put it together.

I know what I know and that is that the payers won that flag for him. He had one of the easiest rides to a flag in VFL/AFL history as a rookie but it was a mutually beneficial thing coz the players needed a coach that was prepared to take a back seat and that was perfect for Scott!

Isn't it the player who should be learning to lay tackles? How do you know that Scott hasn't told Menzel time and time again to tackle, and he refuses to? You can't keep a player who doesn't "get it".

Also, you shouldn't change a gameplan to accomodate one player. The team is bigger than any player, and the player needs to play to the team strategy, not the other way around.

If you wanted Deledio, then why didn't Caddy accept the trade and we would have got Deledio for Caddy? If he was SO hurt, he would have wanted to be traded at the time it was put to him, not a week later when we no longer were going to get Deledio and DionPrestia had joined Richmond and got Caddy to join him.

Caddy should have done the right thing by the club. Instead, he refused a trade which would have benefitted us at the time (maybe not in hindsight, given Deledio's injuries) and instead said that he wanted to stay. The timing of him wanting to move was when it only benefitted him, and he put himself before the club.

You say it is up to the coach to lay the foundation. Interesting fact, our turnaround in 2007 was engineered by the players, when they decided after getting beaten by North in Round 5 that they didn't accept mediocrity anymore. They chose to lift their efforts, and through training harder and discipline, they started winning flags. Even Bomber has said that the revival in 2007 was "player- driven" and didn't take credit for it.

Okay, so if the PLAYERS drove the revival in 2007, instead of the coach, then why can't our players decide to do the same thing?Why don't they decide to tackle in finals game? Shouldn't losing hurt them so much that they decide to play better in finals the next year? It was player driven then, why can't it be player driven now? Or did we have stronger minded players back in 2007 (if so, you blame recruiting for that).

Funny, I have never heard you pot Bomber before. Tell me more about how Bomber should have been sacked after 2008 because he failed in a GF.

How do you know we won't get a worse coach? Chris Scott statistically has one of the best win-loss records, not just in footy today, but in history. A bunch of other clubs would want him as coach if he were available, and with a better list, he would win another flag. He has shown that he can win flags (though you discredit him on this), so with a better team, he could do it again, and leave us with egg on our faces (particularly yours).

Keep turning over coaches until we can get a good one. Okay, let's be like Richmond or Carlton back in the day, where they sacked coaches all the time.

Interesting fact. Bomber won both the Geelong and Richmond coaching jobs back in 2000. He got to choose which one he would coach.

Do you know WHY he picked Geelong? Because he said both clubs need years to be successful. Geelong would give him time to get the list in order, Richmond won't (because they sacked coaches if they didn't win a flag within three years).

If we just sack any coach who doesn't perform (in your eyes), then we get a reputation and many coaches, like a Hardwick or Clarkson, won't pick us to coach, as we would have developed a reputation to sack coaches, especially ones who take us to finals most years and keep us competitive.

So you want a flag ever year? We all do, but it isn't realistic. I suppose then, you aren't one of the people here who want a total rebuild and to sink to the bottom to get early draft picks then? I suppose you support topping up from others clubs, and keep making finals, rather than bottoming out? Because bottoming out means missing finals, giving us NO chance of winning the flag.

Currently, we are in it to win it every year. Like Malcolm Blight once said "If we keep having a dip, we might jag a flag eventually".

We don't have a great list at the moment. The team you talked about him inheriting has mostly retired. Only four guys from that side remain. You can't compare the 2011 team to now. Our list today isn't as good as then, and if you overrate our list, that's your fault. I think we are getting there, but aren't there yet.

Again, you give him no credit for the 2011 flag. He DID coach that day. HE moved Bartel up forward, and Jimmy kicked three telling goals which turned the game for us. HE moved Lonergan onto Cloke after half-time, and shut down Cloke completely, after Travis dominated the second quarter. HE took a punt on playing an injured Steve Johnson, and it paid off.

A rookie coach would have shat the bed after Pods went off injured, completely throwing out our structure. He would have gone to water when Cloke started dominating and taking the game from us. But instead he made some crucial moves, which turned the game, and won us the flag. So HIS COACHING played a large part in us winning the flag (along with the players. You see, I give credit to all parties). He also beat a veteran coach who had coached for 27 years, and it was Scott's first year as coach, and yet CS outsmarted the veteran.

I would say that Bomber had an easier ride. In 2007, Port didn't show up, and it would have been the easiest day in the box ever. In 2009, a player-driven bit of play - the toepoke and the procession which lead to the Chapman goal, won us that flag. I doubt that the toepoke play was taught at training, but I suspect it was instinct, and players knowing what to do. I wonder if our current team would do something so clever without having to be coached in it all the time? Yet I still give Bomber credit for these flags.

I don't believe that you really want us to win a flag. If you did, you would say that you want Chris Scott to coach us to a flag next year. Instead, you want him sacked, telling me that you are happy to sacrifice a flag if it means getting rid of a coach you hate.

Let's play hypothetical. Let's say Geelong WIN the 2019 premiership. Would you want CS sacked then? Why, he would have delivered? Would you give him any credit for it, having rebuilt a team which isn't the 2007-11 team? I bet you won't, as I doubt that you can ever admit you were wrong.

I hated Gary Ayres when he coached us. But I would have rather seen him coach us to a flag than ask for his sacking. I want us to win a flag every year too, but I want our current coach to do it, and not wait until someone better comes along. If that happens, so be it, but I am not calling for it.

I have extra incentive to us win a flag. I want to see, after it, how you then minimise, dismiss, and downplay Chris Scott then, when he has won us a flag with a team HE built. What will you say then? I look forward to your apologies then, and the opportunity for me to say to you "I told you so!" That day, your true colors, and whether you love the Geelong Football Club or not will be truly revealed.

If we win a flag under Chris Scott, you will be hearing from me. I will remind you, and every other critic here, how they got it oh so very wrong. I can't wait to see you have to wipe the egg off your face.

 

[Man0gwaR74]

Kudos. Getting up at 6am to write War & Peace!
That's passion.

LOL who said I was getting up for it, that took me all night to put together!>_>
Catters 070911 You're killing me with these really long posts me man! >>>NO LIFE CONFIRMED!<_<

 

[Catters 070911]

No, that was the general view from a Cats supporter's perspective. The most popular view to justify the club's direction that they have chosen to take was that he can't tackle or add defensive pressure and I would tend to agree with that to some extent but should Chris Scott be expecting that from him or should he be(or has he been) trying to tweak the team forward strategy to work to Menzel's strengths?!?

That's ignorant to say that coz Caddy hasn't had that problem at Tigerland but if he was lazy at the Cattery before then Chris Scott cops the blame coz it his job to motivate his players and get the most out of them and find a way to get every player invested in trying to create a winning culture at the club just like what Richmond have done through Hardwick.

IMO the Cats burned their bridge with Caddy when they showed that he was expendable, so I don't have an issue with Caddy for not feeling the love and moving on! It's a cut throat business and I was ALL FOR Deledio coming here even for Caddy but it turned out not to be such a great trade for the Cats as GWS has found out. I think Caddy was contracted so the Cats could have prevented that move right?!? letting Caddy go for less than what we gave up for him after he had developed, was always gonna be a steal for the Tiges!

LOL ohhh shiiit THE JIG IS UP! never hated Bomber being coach until after he displayed his incompetence and made those HUGE mistakes in the 2008 GF that fully played into Alastair Clarkson's gameplan! Both Scott and Bomber have said some reprehensible things as coaches.

Can't disrespect every part of the process! My beef is with the coach, not with the club executives! I respect their position but it doesn't mean that I'll stop calling out for the sacking of the coach coz I have seen enough evidence to know that the Cats wouldn't do much worse with a change of coach and it's worth taking that risk to find someone that can do a better job!

It is up to the coach to lay down the foundation to nurture a team culture that encourages accountability and high performance.

Purrrfection is what used to be the Cats' marketing slogan and that is something that the Cats should always be striving for if they are being sincere with their paying members! It is the coach's responsibility to be proactive in addressing those multiple reasons for failure and try to keep ahead of the competition. Chris Scott has become comfortable with mediocrity and that is why HE NEEDS TO GO! Keep turning over coaches until a Hardwick or Clarkson comes along! Eventually the Cats would find a coach that would have the passion and mental aptitude to be able to take the Cats to the big dance!

Of course, why not call for their sacking if they cannot find the chemistry to make a team primed for a flag. If they aren't maintaining an environment conducive to a winning culture then cleanse and start again with fresh leadership!

It won't happen, but If by some miracle it did, then good on him! Chris Scott inherited one of the best teams in history! how many coaches come walk into a dynasty era of a club with arguably the best Full Back of all time, A tagger that redefined the game and a team of about 8 All Australian players on its list and a winning culture already built by the playing group.

It's irrelevant coz Chris Scott didn't come during the lows of the club like a Hardwick or his Bro. You can't make comparisons like that and suggest that it coz he a great coach coz he had one of the greatest Cats teams ever and got taught a lot of how to coach through those players. NO NEVER SETTLE FOR MEDIOCRITY coz that brings about a losing culture!

No I want Chris Scott GONE! CS has gone as far as I think he is ever gonna go with the Cats, he's become too comfortable with his position and that is why it is time for a change!

And I spent the time to answer them honestly. Yes it was very civil of you to goto such an effort and thank you for spending the time and thought to put it together.

I know what I know and that is that the payers won that flag for him. He had one of the easiest rides to a flag in VFL/AFL history as a rookie but it was a mutually beneficial thing coz the players needed a coach that was prepared to take a back seat and that was perfect for Scott!

I noticed that you didn't actually answer a lot of my questions.

I said GIVE NAMES of assistant coaches out there who would do a better job. Instead, you rambled on about plowing through coaches until Clarko or Hardwick became available (yes, because Hawthorn or Richmond are itching to let them go...NOT).

If you say that a coach is only successful when they come in during the team being at a low point, then you can't rate someone like Nathan Buckley either, because he inherited a team from Mick Malthouse, and then they missed finals until this year.

Also, you should blame Bomber for us getting Chris Scott as coach. If he had honored his contract, instead of jumping to Essendon, he would have coached us in 2011, and maybe the available coaches a year on would have been different, and CS wouldn't have been available any more.

But then, if Bomber had stayed as coach, we would have fallen off a cliff, as a lot of our players were close to retirement, and Bomber wasn't playing youngsters, meaning that we would be like Carlton today if CS hadn't started playing youngsters every year and getting games into them. We haven't because of a mixture of experienced players, mid-age range players and youngsters. Age-wise, we are quite a balanced team.

It also seems like you have a personal issue with Chris Scott? What, wouldn't he sign your autograph book at a family day, or take a selfie with you? Your vitriol seems to go beyond the club (which you don't care about anyway, since you would rather see CS fail than see Geelong succeed with him at the helm) and towards personal insults of him. So, please tell me why you hate the man so much, and wish only bad things for him?