Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - PART III

[cynical]

Okay. I concede, you are right.
Now shut up about the coach then, he's clearly overachieving to get this s**t list into the top 4.

Checkmate.

Winning flags is what counts not finishing as high as possible.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Winning flags is what counts not finishing as high as possible.

Irrelevant and beside the point. Consecutive PF’s. We either have a drab list or drab coach. Can’t be both, pick your poison. Not contradictions please

 

[Partridge]

Irrelevant and beside the point. Consecutive PF’s. We either have a drab list or drab coach. Can’t be both, pick your poison. Not contradictions please

It could easily be both. A list that is overrated with many players who fail under finals pressure, and a coach who is good enough to win home and away games (which no question is great) but also fails repeatedly in finals.

 

[Partridge]

Winning flags is what counts not finishing as high as possible.

Exactly. Not when you’ve given away as many picks as we have. They have to deliver.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

It could easily be both. A list that is overrated with many players who fail under finals pressure, and a coach who is good enough to win home and away games (which no question is great) but also fails repeatedly in finals.

Overrated is such a nothing term as it’s subjective and doesn’t necessarily mean much. Phil Jackson’s Bulls could be both great and overrated at the same time.

As for the topic it is nuanced. We don’t have a perfect list nor coach and both have flaws. Alas there are some that take the extreme view on both, they both can’t be so accurate. We simply cannot have a list so bad some want a rebuild now and simultaneously a sack worthy coach. Cynical for one believes both. He’s wrong.

 

[darren forssman]

Overrated is such a nothing term as it’s subjective and doesn’t necessarily mean much. Phil Jackson’s Bulls could be both great and overrated at the same time.

Think you should stick to whatever it is you do know, basketball references are obviously out of your realm of expertise.

And if overrated is such a nothing term and doesn't mean much you better get to editing/deleting a crap load of your posts.

 

[JumpyHolden]

Think you should stick to whatever it is you do know.

Wouldn't think there'd be much, maybe marbles or rock paper scissors.

 

[romeohwho]

Winning flags is what counts not finishing as high as possible.

Winning flags is what counts but if that is one's only measure of 'what counts' then -what 17 teams have a wasted year every year? Do players and coaches get paid an awful lot for failure in your eyes? The expectation is that a team works hard and gets closer to a flag by refining skills, lists etc. so finishing high on the ladder ought to help with that. If we pull off a flag in the next couple of years, then all our failings will be forgiven I'd have thought. If we don't, then there will be blaming, some of which will be justified, and some which won't be.

 

[God Mode]

Think you should stick to whatever it is you do know, basketball references are obviously out of your realm of expertise.

And if overrated is such a nothing term and doesn't mean much you better get to editing/deleting a crap load of your posts.

Lol and look at the 3 special cases that liked this post. I imagine they have the same understanding of basketball as you do. I see Biggy is back from his 3 week ban, good for you mate.

I believe Doctor Gero's point is people's opinions on here generally change week to week depending on whether we win or lose. It's all perspective. Case in point was when we lost to Richmond and every player on the list was useless. Menegola, who the previous game had been deemed a star was now a VFL player. Fast forward to beating Sydney he's a star again and then back to being a VFL player after losing to Adelaide. No one cops this more than Chris Scott. And admittedly you cynical ones do stick to your beliefs mostly.

Truth is though it doesn't take some genius to point out a teams faults. Every team has them and if spun the right way can make said team sound horrible. Premierships are bloody hard to win and its certainly easier to say a team is s**t and when they lose say "I told you so" than it is to stick your neck out and back a team to win the flag and they do it.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Lol and look at the 3 special cases that liked this post. I imagine they have the same understanding of basketball as you do. I see Biggy is back from his 3 week ban, good for you mate.

I believe Doctor Gero's point is people's opinions on here generally change week to week depending on whether we win or lose. It's all perspective. Case in point was when we lost to Richmond and every player on the list was useless. Menegola, who the previous game had been deemed a star was now a VFL player. Fast forward to beating Sydney he's a star again and then back to being a VFL player after losing to Adelaide. No one cops this more than Chris Scott. And admittedly you cynical ones do stick to your beliefs mostly.

Truth is though it doesn't take some genius to point out a teams faults. Every team has them and if spun the right way can make said team sound horrible. Premierships are bloody hard to win and its certainly easier to say a team is s**t and when they lose say "I told you so" than it is to stick your neck out and back a team to win the flag and they do it.

Yes.

If I say Dangerfield is the best player atm that's feasible, If I say he's the best in the AFL era them I'm overrating him whilst he's still great.
That's the point.

Had to click ignore to see who the * you were talking to. Whilst I'm flattered Darren has moved out of his cave for me, there's not a man who's opinion I value less on this board.

 

[cynical]

Winning flags is what counts but if that is one's only measure of 'what counts' then -what 17 teams have a wasted year every year? Do players and coaches get paid an awful lot for failure in your eyes? The expectation is that a team works hard and gets closer to a flag by refining skills, lists etc. so finishing high on the ladder ought to help with that. If we pull off a flag in the next couple of years, then all our failings will be forgiven I'd have thought. If we don't, then there will be blaming, some of which will be justified, and some which won't be.

if you arent winning it then you should be close or building for one

as opposed to treading water each year like what we are doing

 

[JumpyHolden]

Lol and look at the 3 special cases that liked this post. I imagine they have the same understanding of basketball as you do. I see Biggy is back from his 3 week ban, good for you mate.

I believe Doctor Gero's point is people's opinions on here generally change week to week depending on whether we win or lose. It's all perspective. Case in point was when we lost to Richmond and every player on the list was useless. Menegola, who the previous game had been deemed a star was now a VFL player. Fast forward to beating Sydney he's a star again and then back to being a VFL player after losing to Adelaide. No one cops this more than Chris Scott. And admittedly you cynical ones do stick to your beliefs mostly.

Truth is though it doesn't take some genius to point out a teams faults. Every team has them and if spun the right way can make said team sound horrible. Premierships are bloody hard to win and its certainly easier to say a team is s**t and when they lose say "I told you so" than it is to stick your neck out and back a team to win the flag and they do it.

Love the special case tag and yes I do stick to my belief and that is CS will never win another flag if he has to develop his own players. By the way I can't get enough basketball and just in case you have a wager take Warriors to win it outright and they'll most likely win 70 plus games for the season even though they started poorly, Harden for MVP and Simonds as rookie of the year, multi them and you can thank me when you collect.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Love the special case tag and yes I do stick to my belief and that is CS will never win another flag if he has to develop his own players. By the way I can't get enough basketball and just in case you have a wager take Warriors to win it outright and they'll most likely win 70 plus games for the season even though they started poorly, Harden for MVP and Simonds as rookie of the year, multi them and you can thank me when you collect.

Not a bad multi

 

[God Mode]

Love the special case tag and yes I do stick to my belief and that is CS will never win another flag if he has to develop his own players. By the way I can't get enough basketball and just in case you have a wager take Warriors to win it outright and they'll most likely win 70 plus games for the season even though they started poorly, Harden for MVP and Simonds as rookie of the year, multi them and you can thank me when you collect.

Mate, i'll take that wager. If I lose out though I'll pm you for an eternity for compensation.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Lol and look at the 3 special cases that liked this post. I imagine they have the same understanding of basketball as you do. I see Biggy is back from his 3 week ban, good for you mate.

I believe Doctor Gero's point is people's opinions on here generally change week to week depending on whether we win or lose. It's all perspective. Case in point was when we lost to Richmond and every player on the list was useless. Menegola, who the previous game had been deemed a star was now a VFL player. Fast forward to beating Sydney he's a star again and then back to being a VFL player after losing to Adelaide. No one cops this more than Chris Scott. And admittedly you cynical ones do stick to your beliefs mostly.

Truth is though it doesn't take some genius to point out a teams faults. Every team has them and if spun the right way can make said team sound horrible. Premierships are bloody hard to win and its certainly easier to say a team is s**t and when they lose say "I told you so" than it is to stick your neck out and back a team to win the flag and they do it.

Not the way it goes though. I copped s**t for thinking we'd lose against Richmond and then tipping us against the Swans.
The reason I tipped us against Sydney is I knew Scott would finally be under decent heat and do the right thing by the team.
Guess what? Finally drops a tall defender.
Next week heat is off back to the same s**t.
Also personally never a fan of Menegola and have always said it. When he plays a couple of solid games when the rest of the team is down happy to change my tune.
But after such things you have to listen to s**t like "tall defence isn't an issue" or "nothing wrong with Menegolas kicking he was good at KP."
It's frustrating both sides of the fence.
It's just as easy to not stick your neck out and say everyone's awesome to get likes then if they're not just make a bunch of excuses.

 

[Ricketz]

But that's our list and who we've chosen to keep on it and who we've recruited.
Absolutely nothing to do with bad luck whatsoever. All teams cop injuries. That's the way it is.
It's like recruiting Mitch Clark and then calling it bad luck if he hardly plays.

I doubt many teams in the comp had to deal with our predicament. In fact, I am pretty sure only North had it worse, and they are on a full rebuild. Basically, what you are saying is that you want to pick and choose what is a reasonable handicap to our chances.

This is the the Chris Scott thread. I am arguing a reason why it is not ALL Chris Scott's fault. It is a legitimate reason. You have to come up with a better argument than Mitch Clark. Explain how we could have gotten better players by delisting guys like MCCarthy or Gregson.

Just wishing for stuff and imagining that it all just happens is the problem with a lot of posters in this thread.

 

[Spazz Cat]

I doubt many teams in the comp had to deal with our predicament. In fact, I am pretty sure only North had it worse, and they are on a full rebuild. Basically, what you are saying is that you want to pick and choose what is a reasonable handicap to our chances.

This is the the Chris Scott thread. I am arguing a reason why it is not ALL Chris Scott's fault. It is a legitimate reason. You have to come up with a better argument than Mitch Clark. Explain how we could have gotten better players by delisting guys like MCCarthy or Gregson.

Just wishing for stuff and imagining that it all just happens is the problem with a lot of posters in this thread.

I explained before that I derailed and bought list stuff into the CS thread.
I apologise for that.
Also if you read approx 25-30 posts back I explained exactly what my opinion is (right or wrong) on lower picks and wasting picks.

 

[Ricketz]

Not the way it goes though. I copped s**t for thinking we'd lose against Richmond and then tipping us against the Swans.
The reason I tipped us against Sydney is I knew Scott would finally be under decent heat and do the right thing by the team.
Guess what? Finally drops a tall defender.
Next week heat is off back to the same s**t.
Also personally never a fan of Menegola and have always said it. When he plays a couple of solid games when the rest of the team is down happy to change my tune.
But after such things you have to listen to s**t like "tall defence isn't an issue" or "nothing wrong with Menegolas kicking he was good at KP."
It's frustrating both sides of the fence.
It's just as easy to not stick your neck out and say everyone's awesome to get likes then if they're not just make a bunch of excuses.

This is called confirmation bias. We beat Richmond and we lost to the Swans the previous times we played them. If you are so bang on, why didn't you get every prediction right for the season, bet on them, win millions, go on a world cruise, and spare us this agony?

 

[Ricketz]

I explained before that I derailed and bought list stuff into the CS thread.
I apologise for that.
Also if you read approx 25-30 posts back I explained exactly what my opinion is (right or wrong) on lower picks and wasting picks.

Not so easy.

It is a valid point that affects the perceived performance of the coach. We had injuries, we had bullshit suspensions, we debuted the second most first year players, of whom most were rookie picks. Why is that Chris Scott's fault?

We still finished second, emphatically beat the premier's when desperately undermanned, and flogged Sydney in a final - why isn't that all Chris Scott's fault?

 

[Spazz Cat]

This is called confirmation bias. We beat Richmond and we lost to the Swans the previous times we played them. If you are so bang on, why didn't you get every prediction right for the season, bet on them, win millions, go on a world cruise, and spare us this agony?

Was responding to a previous post on how people change their tune on things according to results.
This is an example of it not being the case and also the people he mentioned personally I've never found it being the case either.
Also trying to show an example that what he was saying about "sticking your neck out " goes both ways.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Not so easy.

It is a valid point that affects the perceived performance of the coach. We had injuries, we had bullshit suspensions, we debuted the second most first year players, of whom most were rookie picks. Why is that Chris Scott's fault? We still finished second, emphatically beat the premier's when desperately undermanned, and flogged Sydney in a final - why isn't that all Chris Scott's fault?

I just explained before that I was talking list management in the Chris Scott thread.
Was not intentionally going off topic but just happened as it often does.
Once again you may have to go 20+ posts back.

 

[Ricketz]

Was responding to a previous post on how people change their tune on things according to results.
This is an example of it not being the case and also the people he mentioned personally I've never found it being the case either.
Also trying to show an example that what he was saying about "sticking your neck out " goes both ways.

My point being that you can't prove that unless you can prove your magic ability for every game. You can't, you were lucky.

 

[Ricketz]

I just explained before that I was talking list management in the Chris Scott thread.
Was not intentionally going off topic but just happened as it often does.
Once again you may have to go 20+ posts back.

And I am just saying that is a soft excuse. List management is something that clearly is not in Scott's control, but impacts his ability to win premierships and prove to everybody that he is a top coach. It deserves to be in the conversation and until the mods tell me otherwise, I think it is entirely relevant.

 

[Spazz Cat]

My point being that you can't prove that unless you can prove your magic ability for every game. You can't, you were lucky.

Well I guess lucky. Not that I punt on footy but if you do you look at the teams, you look at previous history, recent finals performances etc etc.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Not the way it goes though. I copped s**t for thinking we'd lose against Richmond and then tipping us against the Swans.
The reason I tipped us against Sydney is I knew Scott would finally be under decent heat and do the right thing by the team.
Guess what? Finally drops a tall defender.
Next week heat is off back to the same s**t.
Also personally never a fan of Menegola and have always said it. When he plays a couple of solid games when the rest of the team is down happy to change my tune.
But after such things you have to listen to s**t like "tall defence isn't an issue" or "nothing wrong with Menegolas kicking he was good at KP."
It's frustrating both sides of the fence.
It's just as easy to not stick your neck out and say everyone's awesome to get likes then if they're not just make a bunch of excuses.

He didn't drop a defender. Lonergan got food poisoning. The only way that isn't clutching at straws is if Scott gave him the dodgy sausage roll.

P.S. Tall defence isn't the issue. It simply isn't. Every time we lose a big game it is the midfield getting obliterated, we'd have been 8-10 goals down at HT in the QF if it wasn't for that tall defence keeping us in it.