Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - PART III

[cynical]

Scott hasn't successfully turned over the list anyway, the age profile is still terrible.

7 years since we won the flag and nearly all our very good players are over 27.

Just keeps selling the future to top up and make finals.

Once the 2015 batch of top ups start retiring we'll be in a world of hurt, good chance we win multiple wooden spoons.

 

[Isaac Norm Smith]

Regardless of what people think of Scott, we generally aren't the type of club that sacks Senior coaches. The club will view sacking a premiership coach for an untried, unproven assistant coach as too big a gamble and one that could fail big time and set the club back even further. If another Senior coach becomes available and is the right fit, then maybe it would be considered, but I think even then that's unlikely.

Geelong would also be looking at Richmond as an example. The Tigers retained Hardwick when everyone was calling for his head and look how that turned out? Tigers must be thanking their lucky stars they didn't cave under pressure and move him on. They must have been very close but they backed him in, as we did with Bomber at the end of 2006, and thank goodness we did. The Pies have also show improvement this year and are every chance to make top 4, they could easily have sacked Buckley last year. I just can't see Cook and Carter wanting to potentially de-stabilise the club and sack Scott.

I think Scott clearly has his flaws (It's been stated by Mooney that people management has been an issue in the past) and I've got no idea if he is a really good tactical coach or not, but for mine, the alternatives aren't any more promising. Sometimes it's better the devil you know. I don't think this list is as great as some make out, this is also a view shared by many who follow other clubs and aren't biased towards Geelong, and yes, Scott does have to be held accountable for that, as does Wells and the development coaches.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Plus the "he's managed to turnover the list" excuse is complete bullshit. He's been coach for 8 years. OF COURSE he's turned over the list. Did people want Scarlett and Kelly and Corey and Bartel and Chapman and Mooney playing until they're nearly 40? I'm guessing no.

There's no extra credit for transitioning older players out of the team. That happens at every team every year. Only at Geelong do people think it merits special praise. It doesn't. It's basic competence by anyone who can look at a calendar.

It merits special praise because he is the only coach in modern history to turn over a champion list leakibg AA talent players each and every year and still keep it competitive within the top four for a premiership.

I would love to know what other coach you think has achieved this.

The Scott route is also the same way clarkson is wanting to take hawthorn.

 

[Spazz Cat]

It merits special praise because he is the only coach in modern history to turn over a champion list leakibg AA talent players each and every year and still keep it competitive within the top four for a premiership.

I would love to know what other coach you think has achieved this.

The Scott route is also the same way clarkson is wanting to take hawthorn.

Longmire except he actually won a flag and made GF's
Sheedy except he actually won a GF and made a GF
Simpson made a GF and could make another this year
Clarkson lost well over half of 2008 flag team including Buddy.
Parkin all the way from late 80's till late 90's, but flags and GF's
Laidler at North but only made a prelim
Mark Williams except made a GF in 07
Malthouse made 2 GF's and then a flag with a rebuilt team

 

[Partridge]

It merits special praise because he is the only coach in modern history to turn over a champion list leakibg AA talent players each and every year and still keep it competitive within the top four for a premiership.

I would love to know what other coach you think has achieved this.

The Scott route is also the same way clarkson is wanting to take hawthorn.

I don't care about other coaches. Scott is the one in charge of Geelong right now.

Three top 2 finishes in five years for zero Grand Final appearances? That isn't a pass.

 

[Partridge]

Regardless of what people think of Scott, we generally aren't the type of club that sacks Senior coaches. The club will view sacking a premiership coach for an untried, unproven assistant coach as too big a gamble and one that could fail big time and set the club back even further. If another Senior coach becomes available and is the right fit, then maybe it would be considered, but I think even then that's unlikely.

Definitely not. No clubs are anymore really. They've realised it doesn't necessarily help and frequently causes more damage.

I use this line a lot - the worst run club now is infinitely better run than the best run club twenty years ago.

 

[Max Milburn]

I don't care about other coaches. Scott is the one in charge of Geelong right now.

Three top 2 finishes in five years for zero Grand Final appearances? That isn't a pass.

It has been frustrating at times over the past five years. But I still remember 2011. Even if we sack him next year, that's still a pass from me.

 

[Partridge]

It has been frustrating at times over the past five years. But I still remember 2011. Even if we sack him next year, that's still a pass from me.

Absolutely. And he still deserves every bit of praise for that premiership.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Longmire except he actually won a flag and made GF's
Sheedy except he actually won a GF and made a GF
Simpson made a GF and could make another this year
Clarkson lost well over half of 2008 flag team including Buddy.
Parkin all the way from late 80's till late 90's, but flags and GF's
Laidler at North but only made a prelim
Mark Williams except made a GF in 07
Malthouse made 2 GF's and then a flag with a rebuilt team

Longmire has done it with the help of COLA allowance in the millions over the years and NSW academy kids coming through. Otherwise it wouldn’t have been possible.
Clarkson only won 08 because Thompson stuffed up, that was the same core group coming through for their triple peat flag team that snatched one early.

Adam Simpson? Laidler?? None of those sides won premierships. Malthouse didn’t win a flag either before 2010.

Point proven really. Nobody besides Scott has been able to rebuild a champion era premiership side while still competing in the top four.

Brisbane crashed, Essendon crashed, west coast crashed, hawthorn are trying the same route as Geelong so we will see how they go.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I don't care about other coaches. Scott is the one in charge of Geelong right now.

Three top 2 finishes in five years for zero Grand Final appearances? That isn't a pass.

When your team gets there largely because you coach it beyond its abilities and make the side look better than it is, it is an outstanding achievement.

We need to stop overrating our list like this.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

If we're a top end list with a coach you think is a genius why haven't we at least made a GF?

My definition of top end is a top four side, which we have been. Top four list doesn’t mean you will make a grand final. We have overachieved with the list we have had and the major flaws in it over the years.

The reason we got that far in the first place was because we had Scott at the helm.

You can’t provide another example of a coach losing as much talent as Scott has in the history of AFL over such a period of time that hasn’t ended up a basket case of a club. It’s the most hardest period of transition a team can go through coming out of a period of success like we had, and he has defined gravity and all AFL logics with us.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

hawthorn are trying the same route as Geelong so we will see how they go.

Seem to be doing a lot better at the moment.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I agree but its actually stronger than it was last year.
Blitz is doing better than Lonners was,
Henry offering more than Mackie,
Kelly more than Motlop.
Ablett more than Lang.
Not to mention the form of Hawkins.
My point is we can see we're in that mid range mark but the club thinks we're a flag challenger hence using a pick out of next years "super draft" for Ablett.
I find it strange how some don't like it when we don't agree with everything the club says and does, but then turn around and say we shouldn't expect to win a flag when that's exactly what the club thinks we can do.

We had a decimated defencecfor half of the season, we essentially lost from last year for the majority of 2018

Lonnergan, mackie, Taylor, Henderson.

That’s 4/6 of our defensive group turned over in one off season.

It will always come back to have some impact losing that much experience overnight from your defense.

You don’t loose over 1000 games experience from your defense in one off season and expect it to be the same or better. It has affected us for sure

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Seem to be doing a lot better at the moment.

3-4 years behind where we are at as their group was ahead.

Get back to me once they are still competing in 3 years

 

[Two Planks]

Regardless of what people think of Scott, we generally aren't the type of club that sacks Senior coaches. The club will view sacking a premiership coach for an untried, unproven assistant coach as too big a gamble and one that could fail big time and set the club back even further. If another Senior coach becomes available and is the right fit, then maybe it would be considered, but I think even then that's unlikely.

Geelong would also be looking at Richmond as an example. The Tigers retained Hardwick when everyone was calling for his head and look how that turned out? Tigers must be thanking their lucky stars they didn't cave under pressure and move him on. They must have been very close but they backed him in, as we did with Bomber at the end of 2006, and thank goodness we did. The Pies have also show improvement this year and are every chance to make top 4, they could easily have sacked Buckley last year. I just can't see Cook and Carter wanting to potentially de-stabilise the club and sack Scott.

I think Scott clearly has his flaws (It's been stated by Mooney that people management has been an issue in the past) and I've got no idea if he is a really good tactical coach or not, but for mine, the alternatives aren't any more promising. Sometimes it's better the devil you know. I don't think this list is as great as some make out, this is also a view shared by many who follow other clubs and aren't biased towards Geelong, and yes, Scott does have to be held accountable for that, as does Wells and the development coaches.

Buckley and Hardwick turned it around because they had tactical assistant coaches join their club and completely change the game plan. No Caracella and Richmond dont win last years flag. Apparently Longmuir has been instrumental in changing the way the pies play this year.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

Taken from: https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...k=ca3a078ce42ff14c842897f177a78551-1534163711

“This is the lazy midfield play that Billy’s talking about and would frustrate the Cats,” Brown said.

“This is late in the game, the season is on the line potentially.

“You can argue ‘we were tired’, but the Hawthorn blokes would’ve been tired as well because they were under the pump in that last quarter.”

Brown said opposition coaches would be showing similar vision of the Cats’ midfield to their respective playing groups.



“They’d be emphasising ‘this is where we can get them’. The midfielders are potentially lazy or don’t run two ways,” Brown said.


Premiership coach Paul Roos said Geelong struggled to win clearances, despite their big-name midfield group, because of their lack of accountability.

You always benchmark against the best teams. As a midfielder, it fundamentally comes back down to running. Are you prepared to run offensively? Are you prepared to run defensively?” Roos said.

“Sydney, fantastic at it. Hawthorn, very good at it. Richmond, the best at it. Just getting from contest to contest allows you to score and allows you to stop the opposition from scoring.

“There’s a reason why Geelong, with all that talent in the midfield, aren’t in the eight already. I think they’ll get in the eight, but there’s a reason they’re now in the eight (now) … and it comes down to that offensive and defensive transition.”

 

[Vdubs]

Scott hasn't successfully turned over the list anyway, the age profile is still terrible.

7 years since we won the flag and nearly all our very good players are over 27.

Just keeps selling the future to top up and make finals.

Once the 2015 batch of top ups start retiring we'll be in a world of hurt, good chance we win multiple wooden spoons.

That will be good.
We will then start grabbing the best draftees, something we have NEVER been able to do.
ALWAYS something to look forward to with Geelong

 

[leorex]

Scott is pretty highly rated
he is media savvy
just look at some other coaches out there who struggle in front of the camera

this Saturdays decision to play Stanley was a disaster, big one.
hope its the only mistake the MC makes this year.

I know our faults and weakness, ruck for starters
interesting too who gets delisted
anyway two more weeks

 

[Mahlepi]

Blame the coach if it makes you feel better.

But if players dont execute skills its not his fault.
Ablett kicks straight, the tigers suffer a loss at the G and we would have been pumped up

Hawkins doesnt have a stupid bet, and kicks 3-4 and we beat the hawks, again

the coach can only do so much

Danger needs to run both ways, he chooses when to do this
as for Joel, the last few weeks have been average

But more than anything
GET SOME PROPER SHOES

when its wet you need more traction - simply ridiculous

 

[Leeds17]

Blame the coach if it makes you feel better.

But if players dont execute skills its not his fault.
Ablett kicks straight, the tigers suffer a loss at the G and we would have been pumped up

Hawkins doesnt have a stupid bet, and kicks 3-4 and we beat the hawks, again

the coach can only do so much

Danger needs to run both ways, he chooses when to do this
as for Joel, the last few weeks have been average

But more than anything
GET SOME PROPER SHOES

when its wet you need more traction - simply ridiculous

This argument only works if Richmond & Hawthorn played the perfect game/s against us which they didn’t, had either taken all their chances, like you are demanding of Gaz & Hawkins, then they would’ve won by significantly more.

It’s no coincidence that we play our best or at least most effective football when we throw the structures that aren’t working out when chasing the game.

 

[Spazz Cat]

My definition of top end is a top four side, which we have been. Top four list doesn’t mean you will make a grand final. We have overachieved with the list we have had and the major flaws in it over the years.

The reason we got that far in the first place was because we had Scott at the helm.

You can’t provide another example of a coach losing as much talent as Scott has in the history of AFL over such a period of time that hasn’t ended up a basket case of a club. It’s the most hardest period of transition a team can go through coming out of a period of success like we had, and he has defined gravity and all AFL logics with us.

I just provided you many. You just failed to address them all and gave all the credit to Sydney cause of COLA which they dont have any more.
Honest question? If we didnt get Danger do you think we would have gone back up the ladder?

 

[Spazz Cat]

Taken from: https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...k=ca3a078ce42ff14c842897f177a78551-1534163711

Lol, Guthrie ran around the outside like a cattle dog. If he just ran straight he would of made it.
Gazza was gone.

 

[Isaac Norm Smith]

Buckley and Hardwick turned it around because they had tactical assistant coaches join their club and completely change the game plan. No Caracella and Richmond dont win last years flag. Apparently Longmuir has been instrumental in changing the way the pies play this year.

Okay. That's entirely possible but if Caracella is the genius everyone thinks he is, why haven't we had success all of those years when we had Caracella? Surely he just doesn't go to Richmond and single handedly turn them around. In any case, perhaps we need to make some changes to personnel...Brett Ratten would be an outstanding candidate given his background, as would Sam Mitchell who wants to come back to Vic..

 

[Isaac Norm Smith]

Blame the coach if it makes you feel better.

But if players dont execute skills its not his fault.
Ablett kicks straight, the tigers suffer a loss at the G and we would have been pumped up

Hawkins doesnt have a stupid bet, and kicks 3-4 and we beat the hawks, again

the coach can only do so much

Danger needs to run both ways, he chooses when to do this
as for Joel, the last few weeks have been average

But more than anything
GET SOME PROPER SHOES

when its wet you need more traction - simply ridiculous

It's just easier to blame the coach rather than look much deeper and realise we have a lot of average footballers who lack composure under pressure. If you ask many supporters from other clubs, there is a widespread view that our overall list is average at best and we overachieved making the last two prelim finals on the back of Danger, Selwood, Hawkins etc. Getting pumped in the last two finals series "when it counts" is reflective of where we are really at in my view.

People struggle to come to terms with it because we are continually told we are in the window. People say we are unlucky this year losing all those close games. Good sides win those close games, we don't win them now because we lack skill execution and composure under pressure. But every now and then we take the game on, it all "clicks" and we look as good as any team going around (generally in the last quarter), but we can't sustain that over 4-quarters, not even close. Essendon are great in patches too, but the best sides (Richmond) have the ability to maintain it consistently.

 

[Partridge]

When your team gets there largely because you coach it beyond its abilities and make the side look better than it is, it is an outstanding achievement.

We need to stop overrating our list like this.

Not we - you. You're the one who tells us every year that we have the side to win the premiership.