Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - PART III

[00VicWard001]

Definitely. We are all idiots with no idea about football. Blind freddy proved that wrong again this week with what we produced on the field and selection table.

The reality? Not even they know what the outcome will be. They just prepare the players, based on their statistics and doctrine and experience, and then hope for the best. Most of the time, they don't really know why they lost. "Why don't the players play with more energy?", "Why are they in the wrong spots?", "What aren't they changing from a zone to man on man defence?". When they win? "Oh it was the system".

There are so many variables coming into every single game. There is never a time that a system is executed perfectly.

Clarkson's "Stop the Shark" pre-match address is legend. But the Hawks didn't stop the shark. That cats generated a lot more inside 50s and scoring shots. The shark ****ed up by missing easy goals. Get those goals and no one would give a f*ck about the mastercoach's rev-up.

The other reality? Our players are not intelligent tactical young men. They are instinctive brutes that can follow orders. They stick to task and sometimes to the detriment of winning. They fire-up mentally and suddenly have an extra gear.

It's a toss of the coin this game.

 

[Partridge]

Disturbed that Scott (in post match) doesn’t appear to take any responsibility for lack of attacking pressure until late in games. The reality is the zone/structure of our plan A game plan is static and reliant on consistently good foot skills (which we don’t have) and fragile against quick teams bringing manic pressure.

Could have just stopped there.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

The problem is we're not as good as the club thinks we are.
Mid range list at best constantly topping up to to temporarily make us a high-mid range list but never being to access the picks to make us a proper contender.
You can't really blame supporters for not accepting this reality, or being let down or being upset when the club believes we are good enough.

Mid range is not an accurate judgment on top four and a prelim placement. We have been a top end team almost every season under Scott including 16-17.

Despite how this year has planned out, things could have actually turned out a lot better if a few results had panned our way

 

[geelong_crazy26]

2011 premiership
Allen Christensen -19
Mitch Duncan -29
James Podsiadly -42
Trent west -20

Proves my point really.

I put kelly and Stewart in there just because they fit the criteria of games. So if you take out those two we have six kids running around. From the 11 team we have only 2 if you take out the seniors in west and podsiadly

Big difference in quality down the bottom half in terms of inexperienced kids.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

The Dogs and Richmond had plenty of -50 gamers, not all high picks either, some real late ones and rookie picks.

They also have a plethora of key playmakers with years of continuity together at the right age group in peak form followed by their bottom six contributing in a big way with specific skills they bring, something out bottom six brings nothing in terms of to the table.

 

[Benny78]

Someone give Paul Roos a call and ask if he wants to coach Geelong. He could use with adding a few more premierships to his shitty resume

 

[Vdubs]

Someone give Paul Roos a call and ask if he wants to coach Geelong. He could use with adding a few more premierships to his shitty resume

He is a bit of an opportunist.
I imagine he'll be somehow involved with the basket case next 2 years.

 

[Spazz Cat]

They also have a plethora of key playmakers with years of continuity together at the right age group in peak form followed by their bottom six contributing in a big way with specific skills they bring, something out bottom six brings nothing in terms of to the table.

Yet you say we're not a mid range list?
So we're somehow a top class list with a bottom six that brings nothing?

 

[Spazz Cat]

Mid range is not an accurate judgment on top four and a prelim placement. We have been a top end team almost every season under Scott including 16-17.

Despite how this year has planned out, things could have actually turned out a lot better if a few results had panned our way

If we're a top end list with a coach you think is a genius why haven't we at least made a GF?

 

[Vdubs]

If we're a top end list with a coach you think is a genius why haven't we made at least made a GF?

Top end team, not list.
I believe CS has overachieved with our team.
We should not get sucked in by the Holy Trinity and Tom Hawkins.
The rest of the team struggles with consistency snd pressure.
Duncan, Menegola, Guthrie should be pushing to be A Graders, but they are just ok players.
Our list is that of a team ranging from 7-12 this year.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Top end team, not list.
I believe CS has overachieved with our team.
We should not get sucked in by the Holy Trinity and Tom Hawkins.
The rest of the team struggles with consistency snd pressure.
Duncan, Menegola, Guthrie should be pushing to be A Graders, but they are just ok players.
Our list is that of a team ranging from 7-12 this year.

I agree but its actually stronger than it was last year.
Blitz is doing better than Lonners was,
Henry offering more than Mackie,
Kelly more than Motlop.
Ablett more than Lang.
Not to mention the form of Hawkins.
My point is we can see we're in that mid range mark but the club thinks we're a flag challenger hence using a pick out of next years "super draft" for Ablett.
I find it strange how some don't like it when we don't agree with everything the club says and does, but then turn around and say we shouldn't expect to win a flag when that's exactly what the club thinks we can do.

 

[Benny78]

I've always had this weird feeling that he's allergic to winning. For any game that isn't some pissant H&A match.

We come into finals and play s**t everytime.

Enrights 300

Yet another key game setting Hawks up towards a flag, like 2013 and all those others. I've had enough of us constantly ending up their biggest hurdle towards a flag and falling over for them everytime.

2nd on the ladder what 3 or 4 times? Did we avoid coming first because we'd win something? Seriously!

 

[dazbroncos]

At the risk of the ban hammer, I'll offer my opinion on Geelong's coaching/game style woes.

I only follow Geelong closely when they play the Hawks and for the last two years it has seemed to me that there is key group and the outsiders. And when it comes to crunch time then the "cool kids" get to play with the ball when going forward while the left-overs are expected to defend any Hawthorn rebound. And if an outsider finds himself with the ball then he better not stuff up as there will be finger-pointing and flailing of arms. But if one of the superstars stuffs up then there will be a shake of the head and a "better luck next time" atmosphere.

I'm not having a go, just relaying what I observe. I think there is an intentional over-reliance on the big elites in both tactics and emotions in Geelong's play.

Reasonable respectful discussion won’t get you whacked -

Go Catters

 

[Turbocat]

There are elements to a lot of posts that I can agree to Vdubs says we are over rated ..and other say Scott is , other say we are too big name reliant ..and other say the bottom group let us down... and with the amount of players that we have seen debut this year .. and are in the side ..thats fair too.

I wonder how many of these things can be covered if we only were better at making the most of our chances. Even when we were "thrashed" by Haw for a lot of the game we found our way into a position where we could have won it if players were better or great finishers. Put Parsons shot in the hand of Chapman and Hawkins shot kicked ( who is by no means a bad kick but he is very much a confidence guy ). Our forwards if they were good enough could hide a lot of issues.... it was 20 shots to 21 v the Hawks.. in-spite of them looks far more the in charge team.

Scott has changed the way we have been playing recently but we don't have a DeGoey etc to make the most of our chances. Even under Thompson if we were wasting it , our principle is that we just keep developing chances it will turn. These days.. you don't get a endless supply of chances. Our forwards are probably not quite up to it.. ether too young or lacking the talent to clean up it up.

 

[cynical]

They also have a plethora of key playmakers with years of continuity together at the right age group in peak form followed by their bottom six contributing in a big way with specific skills they bring, something out bottom six brings nothing in terms of to the table.

Cant have years of continuity when your list has a large group of older players and you continually top up and then play people in different positions and have different structures from week to week.

 

[Partridge]

I've always had this weird feeling that he's allergic to winning. For any game that isn't some pissant H&A match.

We come into finals and play s**t everytime.

Enrights 300

Yet another key game setting Hawks up towards a flag, like 2013 and all those others. I've had enough of us constantly ending up their biggest hurdle towards a flag and falling over for them everytime.

2nd on the ladder what 3 or 4 times? Did we avoid coming first because we'd win something? Seriously!

Three times in the last five seasons before this one - 2013, 2016, and 2017.

 

[vicpride]

Heard Scarlett being interviewed before yesterday's game and he pretty much sounded like the coach in waiting, although he was 'gracious' enough to say he was still learning how to be a 'good assistant'.

I don't think it's in Scarlett's personality to be an assistant for too long, especially if he feels things should be moving in a certain direction and they aren't. How Scott (and the club) deal with his desire for Geelong greatness will be mighty interesting. Do they give him the VFL job for more game-day experience, or would that be a step back?

He's already got runs on the boards regarding Stewart, cementing a solid defensive unit and is doing more and more media on game-day.

Looking in from the outside, he may be the old-fashioned head-kicker of the coaching group (ala Brendan McCartney) that some players may have trouble with. Such players may not be in the Hoops for much longer.

Your dreaming. You may have this view from watching him play but he's far from a senior coach... unbelievable ignorance. I'm not even gonna bring up his "personality". It's a boys club with Enright, Rahilly, Ottens, Rooke, Lappin we need another ex geelong coach like a hole in the head.

Sent from my SM-A300Y using Tapatalk

 

[cynical]

There are elements to a lot of posts that I can agree to Vdubs says we are over rated ..and other say Scott is , other say we are too big name reliant ..and other say the bottom group let us down... and with the amount of players that we have seen debut this year .. and are in the side ..thats fair too.

I wonder how many of these things can be covered if we only were better at making the most of our chances. Even when we were "thrashed" by Haw for a lot of the game we found our way into a position where we could have won it if players were better or great finishers. Put Parsons shot in the hand of Chapman and Hawkins shot kicked ( who is by no means a bad kick but he is very much a confidence guy ). Our forwards if they were good enough could hide a lot of issues.... it was 20 shots to 21 v the Hawks.. in-spite of them looks far more the in charge team.

Scott has changed the way we have been playing recently but we don't have a DeGoey etc to make the most of our chances. Even under Thompson if we were wasting it , our principle is that we just keep developing chances it will turn. These days.. you don't get a endless supply of chances. Our forwards are probably not quite up to it.. ether too young or lacking the talent to clean up it up.

The reason why we come good at the end of games is the superior fitness of our midfield.

Our midfield cant hit targets but they can run all day so its easy for other midfields to get overwhelmed in the last quarter.

It's not a good way to win premierships its just a good way to get H/A wins.

A lot of games have been classier more talented sides get on top but waste chances then tire towards the end so then we dont look too bad. Then people say if only so and so didnt miss then we'd have won.

Hawthorn thrashed us most of the game, so did Richmond and so did Melbourne.

Post bye we cant win cos teams aren't as tired and in finals they play harder for longer.

 

[Landgraft]

Is Scott only contacted for one more year?

If yes, then massively tricky situation for the club as Scott (understandably, perhaps) is going focus our trades purely on success for 2019 when maybe the right thing would be a focus on a longer term recruiting strategy.

Why would we switch to an extreme short term focus now? We haven't previously.

 

[someday-somehow]

I don't understand what we're about. When I first joined bigfooty many years ago I had been excited following the development of a group of kids and wanted to know where 2006 went wrong. It was such an exciting ride watching these "kids" develop and become the ferocious competitors that brought us 3 flags - stuff that up to that point geelong supporters could only dream about.

Chris Scott massaged that same team for the last premiership in 2011 but I've no doubt it was the team itself that won it - the coaching staff would have only been aides in that endeavour.

All the current superstars of the team have not been developed under Chris Scott, the ones that have are frequently the target of Ire from supporters have been. I don't know what it is that they are doing wrong but it is clearly wrong. Mark Thompson famously said all players no matter the draft pick can become good players, some just take more development than others. I have seen too many in the last 6-7 years look great in the first 1-2 years only to become mediocre after that - it is an indictment on the current player development of the club.

I have never known, in the modern era, where picking up a superstar from another club has brought a premiership. First one that comes to mind is Chris Judd, Chris Judd = Patrick Dangerfield. I love Danger as a player and I think he's consistently one of our best every week but he's the pinnacle of a great team and we do not have a great team.

Let's look at club Dynasties, almost always they are players that have been together for years and years, who know each others games, strengths and weaknesses. Club players who have played with each other for a decade. Richmond is one of those teams, Hawthorn another and so were we.

Why are we trading away draft picks for ready made players?. Touhy, GAJ, Rivers, Stanley, Dangerfield....what did we give up for them? - I believe the chance to have a go at creating another dynasty. This is just my opinion but if they thought they were going to steal a cheeky flag while Selwood and Hawkins were at their peak then History has so far proven that they have made a mistake and that mistake is going to cost us big time, I believe probably a decade out of the eight while someone picks up the pieces and starts putting development into kids and creating a culture where players don't want to leave through FA.

All I can think of is that FA has caused this, it has made the club as a whole sh!tscared of bottoming out and causing a carlton-esque era where players can leave the team to chase a flag.

 

[Mr Blicavs]

I agree but its actually stronger than it was last year.
Blitz is doing better than Lonners was,
Henry offering more than Mackie,
Kelly more than Motlop.
Ablett more than Lang.
Not to mention the form of Hawkins.
My point is we can see we're in that mid range mark but the club thinks we're a flag challenger hence using a pick out of next years "super draft" for Ablett.
I find it strange how some don't like it when we don't agree with everything the club says and does, but then turn around and say we shouldn't expect to win a flag when that's exactly what the club thinks we can do.

Outstanding, fact riddled post.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

If we're a top end list with a coach you think is a genius why haven't we at least made a GF?

We have lost a lot of quality players over the years like I said. How many players are different from our prelim team in 2016?? Our list turnover and transformation has been enormous. We are not a stable side that has gelled together for years with continuity, the coach has been redeveloping the side throughout the years while keeping us a strong competitive team, things have dipped a little this year with a more inexperienced line up on show.

The man is a genius and top 3 coach in the AFL absolutely. Who else could have done what he has while turning over a list and losing so many star players?

You can go on about the ins all you want but we both know the quality of the outs vs the quality of the ins is not even close to the same standard.

Remember the hawks are about 4 years or so behind us. Come back to me when clarkson has kept hawthorn a top side over the next four seasons, they will crash pretty hard once bruest Gunston puopolo frawley Stratton co depart.

 

[Spazz Cat]

We have lost a lot of quality players over the years like I said. How many players are different from our prelim team in 2016?? Our list turnover and transformation has been enormous. We are not a stable side that has gelled together for years with continuity, the coach has been redeveloping the side throughout the years while keeping us a strong competitive team, things have dipped a little this year with a more inexperienced line up on show.

The man is a genius and top 3 coach in the AFL absolutely. Who else could have done what he has while turning over a list and losing so many star players?

You can go on about the ins all you want but we both know the quality of the outs vs the quality of the ins is not even close to the same standard.

Remember the hawks are about 4 years or so behind us. Come back to me when clarkson has kept hawthorn a top side over the next four seasons, they will crash pretty hard once bruest Gunston puopolo frawley Stratton co depart.

Hawthorn wont win one for a fair while either.
You made the point that the last 2 flag teams played with each other for years and learned to gel with each other.
We can't do that because we are wanting to stay competitive, grow members and build a new stand.
It's not feasible to bring in a new star every year to keep members anyway so im not sure it's the right thing to do.
Not sure Scott is the right man for the job if we have to rebuild.
Murdoch 100 games, Guthrie 130 games, Kolo & Thurlow around 50.
To risky that those results will repeat. I don't think we should take that risk.

 

[Partridge]

Hawthorn wont win one for a fair while either.
You made the point that the last 2 flag teams played with each other for years and learned to gel with each other.
We can't do that because we are wanting to stay competitive, grow members and build a new stand.
It's not feasible to bring in a new star every year to keep members anyway so im not sure it's the right thing to do.
Not sure Scott is the right man for the job if we have to rebuild.
Murdoch 100 games, Guthrie 130 games, Kolo & Thurlow around 50.
To risky that those results will repeat. I don't think we should take that risk.

Plus the "he's managed to turnover the list" excuse is complete bullshit. He's been coach for 8 years. OF COURSE he's turned over the list. Did people want Scarlett and Kelly and Corey and Bartel and Chapman and Mooney playing until they're nearly 40? I'm guessing no.

There's no extra credit for transitioning older players out of the team. That happens at every team every year. Only at Geelong do people think it merits special praise. It doesn't. It's basic competence by anyone who can look at a calendar.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Plus the "he's managed to turnover the list" excuse is complete bullshit. He's been coach for 8 years. OF COURSE he's turned over the list. Did people want Scarlett and Kelly and Corey and Bartel and Chapman and Mooney playing until they're nearly 40? I'm guessing no.

There's no extra credit for transitioning older players out of the team. That happens at every team every year. Only at Geelong do people think it merits special praise. It doesn't. It's basic competence by anyone who can look at a calendar.

I know right. Who doesn't turn over a list in 8 years.
Also its like people cant join the dots between finishing 10th in 2015 then getting Danger and co and going back up the ladder.