List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade Talk 2016 part 2 - see Mod Warning p 281

[sr36]

I would have thought shopping around for more cash per annum will be a waste of time at this stage of his career. He will be looking for longevity....a chance to extend his career beyond 2018. A club that has a chance of premiership results as well as a need for a key forward, combined with minimal age demographic issues (ie not too many old blokes) will be the best fit. Not sure theres a better fit than the Dogs.

Yeah there is. Us!

 

[Old Spice]

Until we have injuries (which .... is basically inevitable right?).
In my opinion, we don't move forward as a team with Brown or Frost in our best 22... Neither are attacking enough and to be honest, both are just plain s@#$.

That leaves Reid (one bad string from the dog food factory), Keeffe (Not sure he can even be counted here), Marsh (I like) and Howe (I like).
Even if you move Howe forward (which I think is a bad move given his #1 strength is his intercept marking), Moore gets mauled in that forward line! Absolutely MAULED!

PS Elliot will never play again - let's be honest. Pars Defect is BAD!

Moore did fine with an absent Cloke (physical or mental) and with several aerial targets around him I don't see a massive problem especially if someone like Howe went down there threaten to pluck them from the sky.

 

[Stoods]

Ed said this morning theres no way we pay any of Clokes contract and the only reason we payed some of Heath Shaws contract is Brissy was paying a portion of Crispys money

Where was this? MMM?

 

[CaptainMurphy]

I just don't see our need for Jong. We probably have too many of his type already. You'd know more about him than me, but I just don't see anything to get excited about to be honest

Yeah I've read a few pages back here and I didn't see that suggestion going down well. In my defence, if it does end up that way, I could see it being the kind of trade you'd look back on positively in three years. He's already borderline best 22 at a top 8 side and he's definitely got improvement. He's got issues though, so I certainly understand the resistance.

I can see it being our second. If we split his salary I'd be able to swallow that. And I reckon the salary thing would be a dealbreaker to us, just to reply to everyone saying it won't happen from your end.

 

[wicksy]

Moore did fine with an absent Cloke (physical or mental) and with several aerial targets around him I don't see a massive problem especially if someone like Howe went down there threaten to pluck them from the sky.

I guess there's a question of some dodgy hamstrings as well.
Hopefully saying "Sayonara" to Davoren will help there.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

You're insane if you think he's worth the same amount un-contracted than he was contracted.
Obviously, never heard the term "Leverage".

Leverage is overrated. Genuine first rucks are hard to come by and clubs that need them will acquire them as they become available.

Regardless I take offence for you calling him a prick for wanting to play for Collingwood. Thats a disgusting thing to say about a guy who wanted to show loyalty.

 

[Old Spice]

The article on cloke says: "Industry sources said today the premiership goalkicker would be worth a third-round draft pick."

i wouldn't be trading him for a third round pick. Be quite happy to keep him on out list. They also say we would pay some of his wage. I find it really odd we would take a low pick and pay part of his wage. He is contracted, surely we ask for more!

Eduardo has said there is no way Collingwood would be paying any of Cloke's wage.

 

[Quicky]

To me it all depends on you guys paying part of his salary. Usually I wouldn't give up our second but it'd be a bit much to split his salary then lowball you on the trade. And I can't see us taking him at full salary. I reckon Jong in a straight swap is fair but I don't see too many around here agreeing with me.

I don't think we would pay part of his salary. We did this with Shaw and on review it was decided that was a poor decision. I believe the club has even stated that it would never do that again. I don't think it's an option for us. It's all or nothing. He's on about 400k next season fwiw. For us it would be 200k in the salary cap given he is a ten year player for us. I think we would be better keeping him personally, failing getting a good deal for him that is.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Yeah there is. Us!

Correct. Us. But he has quit the club. So we are out of contention.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Look at it this way. Cloke could literally be the difference of you guys potentially winning the flag next year. He is a type of player you guys need. We have heaps of mids as it is, Jong isn't exactly a must. That's why i think if thats the case it needs to be Jong with a decent pick (especially if we are paying some of his salary)

He'd play a role for a couple of years but you're overstating his value to us.

 

[Pedro]

Eduardo has said there is no way Collingwood would be paying any of Cloke's wage.

Hmm. Eduardo says a lot of things at times. They don't all necessarily pan out

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

He'd play a role for a couple of years but you're overstating his value to us.

Luke Ball and Darren Jolly played a role for us for a couple of years too. We paid up big time and it was worth every penny.

1954 is a long time ago. If Cloke gets you that flag in the next year or two you wont give a rats clacker how much he cost.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Luke Ball and Darren Jolly played a role for us for a couple of years too. We paid up big time and it was worth every penny.

1954 is a long time ago

You don't have to remind me of that but I'm in no way as convinced as you are that Cloke gets us much closer.

 

[PIEWITHSAUCE]

Correct. Us. But he has quit the club. So we are out of contention.

He is still contracted , so he is out of contention for a trade unless we can get something decent in return. I know it's never considered good to try and hang on to a player who wants out (esp with the mental side to Cloke's peformance) , but if that's how it goes down then so be it. Happy to keep him rather than get shafted.

 

[robertg22]

Ed said this morning theres no way we pay any of Clokes contract and the only reason we payed some of Heath Shaws contract is Brissy was paying a portion of Crispys money

How does that work when we recruited Crisp 12 months after Shaw left?

 

[PIEWITHSAUCE]

Yeah I've read a few pages back here and I didn't see that suggestion going down well. In my defence, if it does end up that way, I could see it being the kind of trade you'd look back on positively in three years. He's already borderline best 22 at a top 8 side and he's definitely got improvement. He's got issues though, so I certainly understand the resistance.

I can see it being our second. If we split his salary I'd be able to swallow that. And I reckon the salary thing would be a dealbreaker to us, just to reply to everyone saying it won't happen from your end.

I haven't seen much of Jong but what I have seen suggests he has burst and knows where the goals are - what are the chances of turning him into a crumbing forward in your opinion?

 

[Old Spice]

We don't even have a third round pick.

That's why the Herald Sun is the best sports rag in town - mountains of research.

 

[Stoods]

You don't have to remind me of that but I'm in no way as convinced as you are that Cloke gets us much closer.

What if we chuck in Clokes favourite glove in the deal

 

[Stoods]

I haven't seen much of Jong but what I have seen suggests he has burst and knows where the goals are - what are the chances of turning him into a crumbing forward in your opinion?

Jong is 188cm, not a crumber

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

He is still contracted , so he is out of contention for a trade unless we can get something decent in return. I know it's never considered good to try and hang on to a player who wants out (esp with the mental side to Cloke's peformance) , but if that's how it goes down then so be it. Happy to keep him rather than get shafted.

Nah, if a player wants out its pointless keeping them against their will. Besides given the way the year has panned out its doubtful the club wants to keep him anyway. This decision by Cloke wont have been made alone. It woudl have been mutually agreed with the club.

We wont get shafted, players of his quality are rare and teams in the premiership window in need of a key forward will be falling over each other to get him. But he is nearly 30 with up and down form so his trade value will reflect that.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

patella tendon injuries aren't career ending.

its the damage done to the medial surface of the patella that end careers. it's what stuffed cooney.

Well yes, they are.

Compensation injuries are also common (eg. your chondral injury), muscle wastage is a major issue, and the surgery is open rather than arthroscopic which has longer recovery and higher complication rate.

I don't have AFL data at hand for you, but for example this paper by the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons refers to over a decade's worth of data on NFL players and indicated patella tendon rupture had the worst return to play rate, worst performance scores in the first year post-injury, and worst survival rates of all commonly occurring injuries.

http://aaos2016.conferencespot.org/...fileserver/file/616744/filename/Paper_841.pdf

I await your rebuttal.

 

[Linda_Lovelace]

With Crameri coming back from suspension wouldnt be shocked to see them trade Stringer

Can't see that happening to be honest. Unless they got a top 3 pick Stringer will stay. You don't give up on a talent like that easily.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

I haven't seen much of Jong but what I have seen suggests he has burst and knows where the goals are - what are the chances of turning him into a crumbing forward in your opinion?

He kicked two massive ones from long range on the run in the 3rd to get us back into a game recently (actually blanking on the opposition - wasn't you guys was it?), and also has a good mark on him, so adding that to a good crumbing goal sense means he could be handy up forward. Disposal is the issue and he's not a great set shot.

 

[PIEWITHSAUCE]

Jong is 188cm, not a crumber

Ah........should've looked that up myself. These players often look a lot shorter on telly/at the ground (standing next to giants) I could never believe that Peter Daicos was around 6ft until I stood next to him

 

[Anzacday]

How does that work when we recruited Crisp 12 months after Shaw left?

Busted!