List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

Updated (20/3/24) the status of all contracts for people’s reference : Overall List - 44 Players : Main List(37), Rookie List(5), Cat B(2) Contracted until the end of 2027 (2) : Tom Barrass (8/10/95) - Signed a 5 year extension (2023,2024,2025,2026,2027) on an existing contract set to...

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Link to Lore ’s excellent draft order thread that is updated to reflect current ladder positions

2023 Provisional AFL Draft Order (updated live throughout the season)

Every trade as it happens!

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[dinnaz]

So I’m like 6 pages behind the times…

This is very much a strategy seen at the NFL draft, but their draft is 32 picks per round, put to 6 or 7 rounds, and nearly 300 players selected.


What I believe ROB is doing, is looking at tiers of talent within in the draft, and not so much focused on specific players or positions.

If you can trade back within a tier, and receive an extra valuable pick, it doesn’t matter what position the player you select plays, as long as he’s an equal talent to the one you gave up the chance to select.

That’s what your 2021 draft looked like, you just happened to get the kid you wanted as well as a future second round pick.

It was a good bit of business and everything is fine until you realise that we kid ourselves with identifying the tiers.
Chesser was probably still there 10-15 picks later at 31, with Hobbs, JVR, Johnson still on the board as better options at #12.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Like I said above, it looks like he isn’t really big on us

Us or he struggles to bend his knee to King Nissie I

the culture and control of Trev is far reaching hence creative people like Mickey Ablett are not welcome

 

[dinnaz]

Would it be fair to say that development in AFL in WA is still stuck in the 90’s?

I haven’t had a child go through the AFL system so only look at it from outside but do compare it with soccer. For a sport which doesn’t have the money Afl has it’s pathway particularly for girls seems better.
Soccer are identifying talent as young as 11 years old and putting them in specialised programs with the aim of playing for the Matilda’s.

This program is outside of WA School sports, State teams and clubs (girls can still play for WA school sports or State teams) and is run by Football West.
The best players trial, then when selected enter a program that runs for close to 10 months of the year where the girls train 3 times a week and play one or two games on top of that in an environment where the best 15-20 girls around there age group train, play and compete against each other.

Who knows more?
15's onward have been in the WAFL system at some capacity. Though athletes > footballers tends to be the trend IMO

 

[southjoy]

Who knows more?
15's onward have been in the WAFL system at some capacity. Though athletes > footballers tends to be the trend IMO

WAFL clubs have development squads from 13. When i was involved it was from 12's. The AFL have 12's and 15's as schoolboy football. Then 16's and 18's for WA. With of course the WAFL Colts as the driving force.

 

[southjoy]

Well this seems to be as popular as a fart in a bottle

Fair enough

Essentially it was after listening Mick Ablett comparing Curtin to Pavlich as he rated him very highly. Figured I’d look at something that gives us additional picks on the basis that the gap between Reid and Curtin isn’t as big as thought

I’m still big on getting a couple more picks inside the top 30 as I’m not sure what’s left with our current 3rd and 4th picks which are both in the high 30’s

Keys

Splitting Pick 1 ( a highly touted Pick 1) for Pick 2 and 15 just seems a massive ripoff not seen since we paid what we did for an uncontracted player.

 

[maverick001]

I’m listening to his discussion on SEN now

It’s a really good listen. Covering a lot of ground

He was asked if WCE had offered him a job. Paraphrasing he said he’d done some work with them on the WAFL team late last year which he enjoyed but also suggested he was too opinionated for the club without necessarily criticising the club or their recruiting team

Listening to him speak he’s certainly got some strong views. I liked him

Would you mind posting a link?

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

Well this seems to be as popular as a fart in a bottle

Fair enough

Essentially it was after listening Mick Ablett comparing Curtin to Pavlich as he rated him very highly. Figured I’d look at something that gives us additional picks on the basis that the gap between Reid and Curtin isn’t as big as thought

I’m still big on getting a couple more picks inside the top 30 as I’m not sure what’s left with our current 3rd and 4th picks which are both in the high 30’s

Ha, ha.

A lot of posters on here are delusional with their trade and draft ideas. If you post a hypothetical that isn't grossly and preposterously weighted in our favour to the extent that there less than Zero chance the trade or anything close to it could ever get done then it will get shouted down.

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

I wonder why there is this uptick of interest in our contracted over 25's? Have we put out the word within the industry that every player over 25 is potentially saleable in exchange for picks pending the right offer?

If we are going to off load some over 25's, if we got a decent offer for Sheed then i would be happy to take it. The game gets faster every year. And the AFL is always trying to tinker with the rules to make it faster. And Sheed is slow and only going to get slower. I doubt he will be somebody who can keep cutting the mustard at AFL level well into his 30's. I think he might potentially be the next Gaff for us. But he is still good enough at the moment that he could probably help a top 8 club for the next couple of years.

 

[Keys]

Keys

Splitting Pick 1 ( a highly touted Pick 1) for Pick 2 and 15 just seems a massive ripoff not seen since we paid what we did for an uncontracted player.

Well it was actually pick 1 (+38) for 2,15 and 23 but the tribe has spoken

Now semantics aside, as I don’t think the above clarification will change your point, my point remains that Melbourne with pick 4 are unlikely to be able to come up with any suitable deal on their own as we’d miss Curtin. But by bringing North in with pick 2 there’s a potential deal there even if my proposal wasn’t enough in our favour and would arguably need more to sway posters

I get that many will just prefer to take Reid and not consider splitting at all, which is fine but imo it’s worth at least considering - not putting all our eggs in one basket essentially

 

[Keys]

Would you mind posting a link?

Hopefully this works for you

 

[WCEswift]

I haven’t had a child go through the AFL system

I have, Its who you know the nepotism in the WAFL pathways is mind blowing

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

Sumich says Liam Henry is not on good terms with Freo, is likely to leave and we are interested and have been sniffing around him. And if did want to play for us we could get him for free if we finish last via the PSD. That would be beautiful. Stick it up Peter Bell in retaliation for when he was sticking his nose into the Tim Kelly

11

Tim Kelly

Age

29

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.6

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

10.1

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

4.0

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

19.9

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

7.6

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

4.7

5star

CL

3.6

4star

D

21.6

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

11.2

5star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

3.8

5star

negotiations and trying to drive the price up on us. Take a recent top 10 draft pick who is in their best 22 off their hands for free.

 

[WCEswift]

Sumich says

While it would be cool the 2 words ^ make whats said totally invalid the dudes got no idea

 

[southjoy]

Well it was actually pick 1 (+38) for 2,15 and 23 but the tribe has spoken

Now semantics aside, as I don’t think the above clarification will change your point, my point remains that Melbourne with pick 4 are unlikely to be able to come up with any suitable deal on their own as we’d miss Curtin. But by bringing North in with pick 2 there’s a potential deal there even if my proposal wasn’t enough in our favour and would arguably need more to sway posters

I get that many will just prefer to take Reid and not consider splitting at all, which is fine but imo it’s worth at least considering - not putting all our eggs in one basket essentially

Must admit I'm polarised by only 1st round picks.

I also agree with you that we would be fools not to at least look at the possibilties at splitting the pick 1...it's just i would want the farm.
I'd want...don't know how it's possible two picks in the top 5 which is possibly really top 6 to 7. (Walters and Read)

 

[ziad]

Well it was actually pick 1 (+38) for 2,15 and 23 but the tribe has spoken

Now semantics aside, as I don’t think the above clarification will change your point, my point remains that Melbourne with pick 4 are unlikely to be able to come up with any suitable deal on their own as we’d miss Curtin. But by bringing North in with pick 2 there’s a potential deal there even if my proposal wasn’t enough in our favour and would arguably need more to sway posters

I get that many will just prefer to take Reid and not consider splitting at all, which is fine but imo it’s worth at least considering - not putting all our eggs in one basket essentially

We have capital in #1. How we use it should be based on the best outcome for the club. We do need to be open. Listening to the pie man (who spoke well) I think the club is open to trade but only for a strongly beneficial package.

I like Reid but history tells us that nothing is guaranteed.

As an aside, if the external noise has merit and the Swans are interested in Barrass, the contract signing with GWS by Himmelburg yestyerday pushed up Barrass' trade value.

 

[ziad]

WAFL clubs have development squads from 13. When i was involved it was from 12's. The AFL have 12's and 15's as schoolboy football. Then 16's and 18's for WA. With of course the WAFL Colts as the driving force.

Its more old boys stuff rather than true tallet ID and development isnt it?

 

[Nuffington Post]

Mick Ablett on SEN today

• Western Australia should be developing 20% of the draft year in year out, and this is not going to happen in the future. Said there are huge concerns about our state development programs and in particularly the country and indigenous kids. Needs to be looked at
• Zane Duursma - "He’s got genuine class. He reminds me of Patty Cripps - the ease in which he moves through the midfield - he’s a prospect I’d be going after him if I were West Coast" Said 7-12 range
• Daniel Curtin - "I think he could be the next Matthew Pavlich
  Matthew Pavlich

  Age

  42

  Ht

  192cm

  Wt

  99kg

  Pos.

  Fwd

  Career

  Season

  Last 5

  D

  17.5

  4star

  K

  11.3

  4star

  HB

  6.3

  4star

  M

  5.6

  5star

  T

  2.6

  4star

  G

  2.3

  5star

  No current season stats available

  D

  16.8

  4star

  K

  12.8

  5star

  HB

  4.0

  3star

  M

  8.8

  5star

  T

  1.2

  3star

  G

  3.4

  5star

  - his ability to play at either end of the ground. Any other draft we’d be talking about him a lot more."

If Mick is right and there is very limited WA talent in the next few years, and a lot of QLD and NSW kids it’s going to very challenging for the rebuild. I can imagine a lot of drafts will be dominated by academy picks from northern clubs. In addition you have homesick Vic metro kids, leaving us with very little to select from.


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[Obeanie1]

Well we're constantly talking about age profile and the fact our list still hasn't bottomed out yet.

We've had Hurn retire at 36.

Chances are there's Shuey (34) and Naitanui (34) both still clogging up spots on the list next year.

Then Darling, Gaff, McGovern and Cripps (32), Yeo and Kelly (30) all getting starting positions and having the youngsters take a back-seat to.

Does that sound like a rebuilding side to you?

At some point you've got move on from this lot. Last year was Redden and JK. This year was supposed to be Shuey Hurn and Naitanui... now that's possibly just Hurn?

That's just going to make next year's cull even softer. We need to keep it ticking over at a good pace IMO.




That happened because everyone died bro ^ Mostly the above players mentioned.

Chuck in those senior players and our youngsters are back playing WAFL. Hell, I'm genuinely curious to see how awkward it's going to be for a 34yr old broken Naitanui walking back into our side at the expense of Bailey.

Sure we will play Nic ahead of Bailey in 2024. Any other improbable examples?

Rebuilding sides need senior players to support the rebuild. Not hamper it.

We have plenty of dead wood to cull before we start retiring champions early.

 

[VicBased]

If NicNats Achilles is 100% next year and his body is right we would be dumb not to play him.
The inspiration our young guns would get (especially BBW) would and should help us win our fair share of games.
We have forgotten how inspirational and influential he can be.

 

[squashface]

Sumich says

Stopped reading here

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

It was a good bit of business and everything is fine until you realise that we kid ourselves with identifying the tiers.
Chesser was probably still there 10-15 picks later at 31, with Hobbs, JVR, Johnson still on the board as better options at #12.

Our resident Brisbane expert said they were into him at their picks shortly after us, and Cal Twomey’s mock had him going to Geelong at 24. So no, he probably wasn’t still there in the 30s.

 

[ziad]

If NicNats Achilles is 100% next year and his body is right we would be dumb not to play him.
The inspiration our young guns would get (especially BBW) would and should help us win our fair share of games.
We have forgotten how inspirational and influential he can be.

While his leap may be down his ruck craft is quality and his inside work is immense - the tank our kids would appreciate supporting them at contests.

 

[UseR2006]

While his leap may be down his ruck craft is quality and his inside work is immense - the tank our kids would appreciate supporting them at contests.

I disagree for a few reasons.

1. He wasn't that effective around the ground and now with a dodgy Achilles his ability to cover the ground is going to be even worse than it was (which was not great to begin with).
2. His leap likely will not be as good as it previously was (and had already been diminished through the knee injuries) and now not only will he be hampered at the taps he will be run off at the stoppage as he wont be able to chase.
3. Due to 1 and 2 players will go through him even more than they were pre-injury, remember when rucks would go forward and he'd just sit outside the d50? that'll get worse.

He should retire at the end of this year, the club wont make him call it or take the call from him but I don't see the club playing him next year unless it's in a dead rubber at home for a farewell game and even then will play second fiddle to bailey.

 

[Wooshaaaa]

Brander.

Was supposed to be yes. But alas.

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[Wooshaaaa]

Would it be fair to say that development in AFL in WA is still stuck in the 90’s?

I haven’t had a child go through the AFL system so only look at it from outside but do compare it with soccer. For a sport which doesn’t have the money Afl has it’s pathway particularly for girls seems better.
Soccer are identifying talent as young as 11 years old and putting them in specialised programs with the aim of playing for the Matilda’s.

This program is outside of WA School sports, State teams and clubs (girls can still play for WA school sports or State teams) and is run by Football West.
The best players trial, then when selected enter a program that runs for close to 10 months of the year where the girls train 3 times a week and play one or two games on top of that in an environment where the best 15-20 girls around there age group train, play and compete against each other.

Does WA have the equivalent of the TAC cup? This is where the Victorian school kids get noticed. It is split into 12 regions across Victoria.



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