Society/Culture Do people actually think society will collapse due to climate change?

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Johnny Bananas

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Hi JB, the Maldive government doesn't seem too concerned about being swallowed up by the ocean.

https://maldives.net.mv/31166/maldives-to-open-five-new-airports-in-2019/

Five new airports will come into operation by the end of the year, Maldives government announced Sunday.

Transport minister Aishath Nahula told local media that construction of airports on the islands of Kulhudhuffushi in Haa Dhaal atoll, Funadhoo in Shaviyani atoll, Maafaru in Noonu atoll, Madivaru in Lhaviyani atoll and Maavarulu in Gaaf Dhaal atoll is nearing completion. Kulhudhuffushi airport will come into operation first, followed by Funadhoo and Maafaru airport in August, she said.
They're actually extremely concerned, they just aren't going to turn down the chance to make money in the interim, to either protect them through sea walls or buy them a new homeland.


80% of their country is 1m or less above sea level, they'd be absolutely stupid to not be concerned.
 

Johnny Bananas

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I dont brush it off. Its not civilisational collapse though. Communities and broader western civilisation are very very different orders of magnitude. And none of the people this article is refering to are islanders at risk of flooding. These are western people living in cities with all the wealth and access to air conditioing and heating and solid brick homes. Communities will perish, mostly due to forced relocation then death. And this is terrible for these people. But its not the end of civilisation. Its ridiculous to claim it is.
Most of Australia lives by the coast, plenty of suburbs will get flooded, plus we'll have less cropland and less water to irrigate it with. The end of civilisation may indeed be an exaggeration, but it'll require huge adaptations and a reduction in total population.
 

sorted

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Hi JB, the Maldive government doesn't seem too concerned about being swallowed up by the ocean.

https://maldives.net.mv/31166/maldives-to-open-five-new-airports-in-2019/

Five new airports will come into operation by the end of the year, Maldives government announced Sunday.

Transport minister Aishath Nahula told local media that construction of airports on the islands of Kulhudhuffushi in Haa Dhaal atoll, Funadhoo in Shaviyani atoll, Maafaru in Noonu atoll, Madivaru in Lhaviyani atoll and Maavarulu in Gaaf Dhaal atoll is nearing completion. Kulhudhuffushi airport will come into operation first, followed by Funadhoo and Maafaru airport in August, she said.

Also. Paywall so I can't access the whole article from 2017.

We need development': Maldives switches focus from climate threat to mass tourism
The new government plans to relocate residents to larger atolls – leaving small islands ripe for development. It says these super resorts, not solar power, will create the money needed to adapt to climate change
The UN has been saying the Maldives will be submerged in the next 30 years - for over 30 years!

 

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skilts

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But despite the climate change alarmism I am still waiting for the great Australian migration from Queensland to Tasmania.
This can never and will never happen. Tasmania's population growth is virtually zero, due to a lack of potable water. BTW, I realise that you may have been half-pied jarkin'.
 

skilts

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It seems that except for all of those with a vested interest in fossil fuels, and/or the just plain stupid or contrarian, there is agreement that climate change is a thing. FFS, even big business sees advantages for their bottom line in acting upon it.

It would seem to be not such a bad thing to work on the premise that this change is happening and is man-made. If 95% of scientists who hold this view are wrong, and we clean up our act based on their information, it would seem to be less of a catastrophe than their predicted alternative.

Of all the species on the planet, it is only us humans who are the ones who have foresight about such things, and we are also the only species able to do something about it. Giraffes, chimpanzees and belching, farting cows don't have the organisational, communication or intellectual skills to do it.

We are also the beings who care. It is not important that it is we who are those beings. It is important that there are beings who do. We are the beings for whom things matter.

As for the mentions earlier in the thread of alarmism and beat ups in the media, who would ever have thought that such a thing might happen. That is their stock-in-trade. This is their inevitable fallback position after they've sacked all the journalists and sub-editors who can write or edit a story - people who actually know things (like being able to hunt down stories and actually write them for an audience above the age of 13).

For no apparent reason, I cling to a hope that the science which warns us might be able to also provide an answer to the problem - possibly a technological way of dealing with an excess of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.
 

HairyO

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The UN has been saying the Maldives will be submerged in the next 30 years - for over 30 years!

Ah but the next 30 years will be our DOOOOOOOM.
We have to act now !! (Or in the next 30 years or the 30 years after that.)

Best solution according to the UN is more taxes, more power for governments, and more money for poor people, and more money for rich people.

Us regular folk can pay for the excesses of others, and rampant corruption almost everywhere.

The solution is actually simple. We just need to compost. Then we can fly around the world and drive 4WDs.
 

Seeds

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On the basis of what?

It happened millions of years ago on another planet.

On that basis alone aliens is the most logical explanation.
You sound like a religious person who wants to claim every unexplainable event as the cause of the christian god. We have zero evidence of aliens and fossil fuel burning on venus.
 
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Seeds

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Adaptation has taken many forms in the past, such as rapid depopulation and the loss of techniques for a thousand years. Europe literally forgot how to do many things twice in its history, between the Mycenaean Greeks and the Classical Greeks, and between the Roman Empire and the Renaissance.

The ability to write was completely lost in most parts of the Western world during the Bronze Age collapse.

This is a good video

None of that is going to happen with a 2-4 degree temperature change in modern times. There arent going to be mass famines and even if there were we live in a world of borders so mass migrations can only happen within countries.
 

its free real estate

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None of that is going to happen with a 2-4 degree temperature change in modern times.
As pointed out in the video, systems collapse doesn’t have a single cause. Eg for example, Africa is meant to reach a population of ~4 billion by the end of the century. A drought and famine happens in Africa, and a few hundred million press into Europe and Asia, overloading their society’s ability to cope, causing basic functions to breakdown. What happens next?
 

M Malice

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For no apparent reason, I cling to a hope that the science which warns us might be able to also provide an answer to the problem - possibly a technological way of dealing with an excess of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.
We have the technology already ie. nuclear, the morning tv, current affair, gogglebox watching public don't trust it though.
 

Thegibbsgamble

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Ah science, it just keeps inventing new ways of phuqing the planet and people think they're the ones to save us lol.

And seeds thinks you can eat money.. Haha
 

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ferball

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Does anyone know how a
You sound like a religious person who wants to claim every unexplainable event as the cause of the christian god. We have zero evidence of aliens and fossil fuel burning on venus.
The free real estate guy was right. You do struggle with coherent thoughts.

Yes, we have zero evidence of anything even happening on Venus. It's all speculation based on playing around with computer models.

My point is that your statement claiming any kind of knowledge about what happened on another planet millions of years ago is stupid.

How can you be pretty sure of anything that happened on another planet millions of years ago?

You can't.

And you turned that into "you must be some sort of Christian cos you mentioned aliens."
 

Lethality

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If climate change creates mass refugees then you'll see something. Maybe not society collapsing, but something much worse than the immigration problems in Europe.
 

HairyO

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As pointed out in the video, systems collapse doesn’t have a single cause. Eg for example, Africa is meant to reach a population of ~4 billion by the end of the century. A drought and famine happens in Africa, and a few hundred million press into Europe and Asia, overloading their society’s ability to cope, causing basic functions to breakdown. What happens next?
Sink the boats.
 

Seeds

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What's happened to the Australian Wheat crop and the national sheep and cattle herds recently?

Where's that water in the Murray Darling right now and what are people growing with it?
And yet there are no wheat, lamb or beef shortages let alone shortages of food in general. Why is that?
 

Seeds

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Seeds discovers that we are not currently undergoing societal collapse.
Because society is no longer reliant on annual crop/livestock output in a single area. We now all live in a global world where this magical idea of trade can occur between the productive areas and non prodouctive areas. Plus on top of that we also live in a world where processed food is abundant and can keep us all fed for years. And soon we are about to get processed meat eliminating the need for livestock permanently. Droughts on their own now have little influence on society beyond the farmers themselves.
 

its free real estate

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Because society is no longer reliant on annual crop/livestock output in a single area. We now all live in a global world where this magical idea of trade can occur between the productive areas and non prodouctive areas. Plus on top of that we also live in a world where processed food is abundant and can keep us all fed for years. And soon we are about to get processed meat eliminating the need for livestock permanently. Droughts on their own now have little influence on society beyond the farmers themselves.
The Arab Spring was caused by grain prices going up. Many of the states that experienced turmoil then are still in a state of collapse. Scale it up.
 

Seeds

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The Arab Spring was caused by grain prices going up. Many of the states that experienced turmoil then are still in a state of collapse. Scale it up.
You are confusing tipping points with causes. You must think the mass riots in chile was caused by a 5 cent rise in bus tickets. Climate change impacts could cause further tipping points that change the course of history. But that doesnt make then cause of civilisation collapse. Often these tipping point events lead to positive outcomes. But they are never the cause of them. World war 1 did not happen because some leader of a tiny insignificant country took a turn down the wrong street.
 

its free real estate

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You are confusing tipping points with causes. You must think the mass riots in chile was caused by a 5 cent rise in bus tickets. Climate change impacts could cause further tipping points that change the course of history. But that doesnt make then cause of civilisation collapse. Often these tipping point events lead to positive outcomes. But they are never the cause of them. World war 1 did not happen because some leader of a tiny insignificant country took a turn down the wrong street.
What gives you the confidence society is robust enough to avoid tipping points?
 

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