Traded Dylan Shiel [traded with future 2nd to Essendon for #9 and future 1st round pick]

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

My bad was tired from night shift, if you’ll be so kind to excuse the inconsistency in that case, scanned my posts and missed it but my retraction was incorrect. As demonstrated by his elite clearance numbers last year, very capable of being an inside bull and I don’t see why it’s being denied, it’s very revisionist. It’s clearly a big strength and where his attributes are at the most beneficial, using explosive pace from the stoppage, but others like Ward, Hopper, De Boer, even Lids now aren’t capable of replicating that so they are never going to be given that overlap role he is currently playing.

I think there is a misunderstanding about what constitutes an inside role, there are multiple inside roles, the classic wrecking ball (hard ball gets) and then there’s the Simon Black, Judd, Pendlebury role that is less about body on body and more about transition inside to out (handball receives). The latter is Shiels current role backed up statistically by the fact he is still racking up very good clearance numbers despite not having a huge ratio of contested possessions and isn’t excelling with traditional outside measures like marks, metres gained and has a pretty even kick to handball ratio. But that said your insistence on Shiel’s limitations being solely shaped on this season isn’t a true reflection of his only capabilities.

I watch 5-6 games every week probably seen 10-12 GWS games this year (turned off a last week at half time though) if you’re inclined I have the downtime to make some observations of GWS’s roles this season as followed:

Ward mostly inside, does it well. Isn’t really capable of being that versitile but he’s a great battering ram so no problems there.

Hopper mostly inside with forward rotations but hasnt been that effective up there so far. Think he’s close to breaking out though. Probably would have already if he had more minutes in his best position as he finds himself starting bounces on the wing or half forward waiting to push up for the secondary contest quite often.

Cognilio started the year on fire and was probably the best player in the comp in the first five rounds, especially inside but a lot of his highlights was kicking goals from forward stoppages. Still playing well but faded from early form.

Whitfield has been dominating that wing role but often rotates off half back to help their drive with Shaw fading. Especially with Williams missing since the start of the year. Though Kennedy has returned to the side in career best form which should help that back half transition.

Taranto started the year really well too blending the midfield and forward rotations but has settled a bit as the year has rolled on.

Kelly started settling it alight after two games back from injury blending an elite outside game with a surprising inside game considering his frame. Probably the best in the comp the last 5 weeks.

Didn’t see a lot to be excited about from Shipley early in the year when he played a few but Daniels, Langdon and Bonner look to be great finds up forward. The first two offering much needed tenacity and pressure which has really been the catalyst for GWS’s rise in form as it’s allowed much better forward line retention. Not to undersell big Dawson Simpsons ruck work finding a new level and adding some solid bullocking in close.

Tomlinson helps out where needed, played mostly back but recent weeks found himself wing and forward.

De Boar inside/run with but in and out in recent weeks.

Davis consistent.

Lobb has been underwhelming but shown a few glimpses in recent weeks.

Obviously a horrible year for Patton even before the knee struggling to find form forward or ruck.

Haynes a little disappointing thought he’d set it alight this year but a solid contributor most weeks.

Tharlt's a lot of detail. Obviously you can draw limited conclusions from watching AFL on TV though. The cameras necessarily follow the ball and you only get to see the outcome, not the setups or what's happening off the ball.
A lot of your statements are incorrect.
Eg

Whitfield has been playing predominantly halfback all this season, occasionally rotating on the wing.

Tomlinson has predominantly played wing, running forward to provide a marking target in the forward 50 at times, and relieving in the ruck.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Tharlt's a lot of detail. Obviously you can draw limited conclusions from watching AFL on TV though. The cameras necessarily follow the ball and you only get to see the outcome, not the setups or what's happening off the ball.
A lot of your statements are incorrect.
Eg

Whitfield has been playing predominantly halfback all this season, occasionally rotating on the wing.

Tomlinson has predominantly played wing, running forward to provide a marking target in the forward 50 at times, and relieving in the ruck.

I said a slight variation on both of those things. Though Whitfield barely has an opponent and has more inside 50s than rebounds, calling him a half back is generous.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

I said a slight variation on both of those things. Though Whitfield barely has an opponent and has more inside 50s than rebounds, calling him a half back is generous.

It's not a slight variation though, it's just simply wrong.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

It's not a slight variation though, it's just simply wrong.

Whitfield’s numbers agree with me, he has obviously gone down back to assist but never plays on an opponent. Starting positioning is irrelevant to his role, as it is with a stack of your players due to ridiculous depth. He pushes back and forward a classic box to box runner.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Whitfield’s numbers agree with me, he has obviously gone down back to assist but never plays on an opponent. Positioning is irrelevant to role, he pushes back and forward. Classic box to box runner.

Clearly you have no idea,
bye

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Clearly you have no idea,
bye

Tomlinson’s heat map is red all on the back flanks and Whitfield are red half back to wing.

 

[Mudeo]

My bad was tired from night shift, if you’ll be so kind to excuse the inconsistency in that case, scanned my posts and missed it but my retraction was incorrect. As demonstrated by his elite clearance numbers last year, very capable of being an inside bull and I don’t see why it’s being denied, it’s very revisionist. It’s clearly a big strength and where his attributes are at the most beneficial, using explosive pace from the stoppage, but others like Ward, Hopper, De Boer, even Lids now aren’t capable of replicating that so they are never going to be given that overlap role he is currently playing.

Last year the bulk of his clearance numbers came from Coniglio being injured most of the year and Hopper for part of the season plus there is an element of luck to it as well. Not once have i put limitations on him. He is capable of playing any midfield role given to him but why would you use a Ferrari to plow the fields. He is playing an overlap role because he has the 3 players bolded above (when De Boer plays, even then its an 80/20 fwd/mid role) and Coniglio as players to feed it to him so he can use that explosive pace to break away from a stoppage.

I appreciate the time and effort you have put in here if Ess want him you will have to sell a kidney, he will be in high demand if he wants to leave. He is a much better fit at Hawthorn compared to Essendon imo

 

[Mudeo]

Tomlinson’s heat map is red all on the back flanks and Whitfield are red half back to wing.

So you dont watch the games then

 

[Red Black and Blue]

So you dont watch the games then

Haha, of course, just using the tools avaliable to validate what the eyes see.

 

[Prochard123]

Tharlt's a lot of detail. Obviously you can draw limited conclusions from watching AFL on TV though. The cameras necessarily follow the ball and you only get to see the outcome, not the setups or what's happening off the ball.
A lot of your statements are incorrect.
Eg

Whitfield has been playing predominantly halfback all this season, occasionally rotating on the wing.

Tomlinson has predominantly played wing, running forward to provide a marking target in the forward 50 at times, and relieving in the ruck.

So you're saying Whitfield hasn't been playing half back?... So where has he been playing? On Mars?

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

So you're saying Whitfield hasn't been playing half back?... So where has he been playing? On Mars?

Read the posts, you really are special.

 

[Mudeo]

Haha, of course, just using the tools avaliable to validate what the eyes see.

Tomlinson moved to the wing maybe 8 weeks or so ago and Whitfield has been playing half back moving up to stoppages. Tomlinson's heat map going to show those back flank areas because he is used as the get out kick and he finds space from rebounding 50 kicks. Whitfield will start HB and will push up to most stoppages back of centre and he overlap runs over that HB area like a madman

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Tomlinson moved to the wing maybe 8 weeks or so ago and Whitfield has been playing half back moving up to stoppages. Tomlinson's heat map going to show those back flank areas because he is used as the get out kick and he finds space from rebounding 50 kicks. Whitfield will start HB and will push up to most stoppages back of centre and he overlap runs over that HB area like a madman

I don’t disagree with much of that.

I do think it’s inaccurate to say Whitfield is a half back, as he certainly doesn’t have an opponent and has no apparent directive to support spoil or even stay in the area like a loose man does. I think he’s probably best described as a midfield sweeper. He wins about 15% more forward half ball than Saad who I’d say is archetype for an half back overlap runner.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Tomlinson moved to the wing maybe 8 weeks or so ago and Whitfield has been playing half back moving up to stoppages. Tomlinson's heat map going to show those back flank areas because he is used as the get out kick and he finds space from rebounding 50 kicks. Whitfield will start HB and will push up to most stoppages back of centre and he overlap runs over that HB area like a madman

Whitfield all year. When Wilson left and Zac Williams did an ACL pre season we needed elite disposal and some run of half back.
Otherwise

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Read the posts, you really are special.

He’s confused because you basically reworded what I said with more emphasis on half back even though I referenced him supporting Shaw and getting more help from Kennedy.

 

[Mudeo]

I don’t disagree with much of that.

I do think it’s inaccurate to say Whitfield is a half back, as he certainly doesn’t have an opponent and has no apparent directive to support spoil or even stay in the area like a loose man does. I think he’s probably best described as a midfield sweeper. He wins about 15% more forward half ball than Saad who I’d say is archetype for an half back overlap runner.

In general this season Whitfield has won 52% more of the ball than Saad

 

[Red Black and Blue]

In general this season Whitfield has won 52% more of the ball than Saad

Of course, not saying he’s better, but highlighting where a true half back wins possessions and how Whitfield’s positioning is different.

 

[Mudeo]

Of course not saying he’s better, but highlighting where a true half back wins possessions.

Right, so Whitfield has won 70% of his 518 disposals this year in the defensive half playing as a permanent HB. While Saad has 80% of his 339. You cant really compare these 2 players not because you dont believe Whitfield is a true half back its because one player is far superior to the other in all areas.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Right, so Whitfield has won 70% of his 518 disposals this year in the defensive half playing as a permanent HB. While Saad has 80% of his 339. You cant really compare these 2 players not because you dont believe Whitfield is a true half back its because one player is far superior to the other in all areas.

66% to 81%. I wasn’t comparing them but contrasting them, using Saad as an example of a clear half back who spends most of his time on the half back flank and disputing the idea that Whitfield spends considerably less time outside the backline than implied.

I think both of you are using recent weeks to shape what I assumed was a conversation about the duration of the season.

 

[Xavier Menzies]

Essendon bound

 

[HawksILove]

In your dreams

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Vindicater]

Essenton bound

Would love it but doubt we can get it done.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Whitfield’s numbers agree with me, he has obviously gone down back to assist but never plays on an opponent. Starting positioning is irrelevant to his role, as it is with a stack of your players due to ridiculous depth. He pushes back and forward a classic box to box runner.

Interesting that you mention that.

I can see traces of Dyson Heppel in him.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Interesting that you mention that.

I can see traces of Dyson Heppel in him.

I can see that. Long limbs and good runners, I’d love to get Heppell into Goddards position as he can actual run.

 

[Xavier Menzies]

In your dreams

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

Can confirm.

Been heavily recruited by a former Giant throughout the year.

I'd suspect this years first + Next years second + Laverde pick (if traded)
Or 1st + future 1st with change the other way.