Coaching Staff Eye on our Coaching (Ratten, Lade, Batchelor, Slater sign on)

[Geary Is GOAT]

The team is also not attacking enough.

How so? We run at a frantic pace, play on at all costs and run through the guts in waves. In fact our general game plan coming out of defense is to go wide with a kick and then hand pass back into the middle and run. I really don't think we could be any more attacking than we currently are.

 

[Persevering Saint]

The thing is, so many of the problems identified last year have not improved at all. Some of those could be developmental wait and see problems. But surely some of them were identified by the coaches, and they surely could have figured out how to improve them.

We knew last year:

- our clearance work was poor.
- our second ruck was a problem, and Bruce's forward game was suffering because of it.
- forward entries were grossly inefficient.
- goal kicking was inefficient.
- we regularly suffered fade outs.

These seem to have not only not improved, but in some cases got worse. Richo's win-loss record as senior coach is the worst in the league, isn't it? The only justification for him starting on is his ability to develop the team. But are we seeing development? Or are we seeing stagnation at best, regression at worst?

 

[Geary Is GOAT]

The only justification for him starting on is his ability to develop the team. But are we seeing development? Or are we seeing stagnation at best, regression at worst?

2014 - 4W 18L

2015 - 6w 15L

2016 - 12w 10L

Last year Seb Ross, Tom Hickey and Tim Membrey were all in the top 5 most improved players in the league. Last year we also had an incredibly soft draw which also made these players look better and more improved than they actually are.

This year we face a harder draw, our players are facing harder competition. Out side of parts of round one i am yet to see us look uncompetitive against anyone. Just look at our first trip on the road to WA, if we are stagnating or regressing then why didn't we lose that game by 100 points like we did last year and the year before?

The improvement in this team is pretty clear just by the improvement in our opposition.

Are we seeing development? * oath we are.

 

[Persevering Saint]

2014 - 4W 18L

2015 - 6w 15L

2016 - 12w 10L

Last year Seb Ross, Tom Hickey and Tim Membrey were all in the top 5 most improved players in the league. Last year we also had an incredibly soft draw which also made these players look better and more improved than they actually are.

This year we face a harder draw, our players are facing harder competition. Out side of parts of round one i am yet to see us look uncompetitive against anyone. Just look at our first trip on the road to WA, if we are stagnating or regressing then why didn't we lose that game by 100 points like we did last year and the year before?

The improvement in this team is pretty clear just by the improvement in our opposition.

Are we seeing development? **** oath we are.

I wasn't talking player development (although that is another thing may of us are questioning), and I wasn't talking win-loss. I was talking specific aspects of gameplay. The only real area of previous concern that has been rectified has been the backline - that's working fantastically (there IS a little concern in terms of the future, is Brown just a stop-gap?).

 

[Saintanne]

Ok big speech time about the coaching or the game plan.
Over the last few years we have played great football with all our forwards leading up to the ball . That's why first Bruce and then Membrey had such good years . Players bursting out of midfield didn't just bomb long , they looked to pass to a leading forward which included Weller and Wright . Every week we were taking so many marks in the forward 50 and the forwards were confident in their kicking.

This year they have changed the plan , now we burst from the middle and bomb it long onto of Bruce's and Membreys heads and hope they mark it . It makes it so easy for the backs to punch it away . Also Bruce and Membrey aren't getting a chance to get a run up to try to out jump the defenders.
What the freaking hell is going on . Which moron thought this would be a good plan . Poor Bruce is so buggered from trying to ruck then he has to run back and try out mark defenders from good teams from long bombs that give him no advantage.

Why can't we go back to the way we played the second half of last year . That's what won us games . We had Bruce , Membrey , Paddy and sometimes Roo, Weller and Wright leading and it was totally confusing the defence because usually at least one would get free.
Watch a replay of a game from last year , then watch one from this year . We have gone backwards. Such a disappointment.


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I couldn't agree more. Also Jack Riewoldt played close to home last night and did a fine job. No one expects him to ruck! Not suggesting that Bruce is in the same class, but really aren't they expecting too much from him.

 

[Brains Trust66]

Prior to last night's game we were leading the competition for marks inside fwd 50.. we bomb it long when we have no other learn option. In case you didn't notice all teams flood nearly their entire 18 players into the defensive 50 making it hard to spot up a player. I for one would rather kick it to a contest at the top of the square then kick to a 50/50 30-40m out from goal.

Why when we lose does everyone question the game plan, the coaches, player development, blah blah blah.... no one gave a rats toss bag when we beat Brisbane or the Pies. Funny that.. And were we supposed to beat the cats? They are a top 4 side and are sitting 5 and zip. We had a red hot crack.. take away the last quarter and we were very very competitive against a top 4 side.

The problem is that all the sides above us apart from Essendon, still to play, and Freemantle have kicked way more total scores than we have . Even a Gold Coast who are next in the ladder after us have scored more. Are we going to blame it all on bad kicking at goal ? Bad kicking is bad football . If we are going to continue with this plan then stick Paddy at ff as he's a better clunk mark than Bruce who needs a run up and Membrey who go a lot of his goals last year from running up the ground and then burning the defender off by running back like Roo does . Besides I have been questioning the game plan since the intra club match when it became obvious what the plan was , I just haven't mentioned it on here . My wife is sick of me talking about it. I'm just saying that it was much better to watch than just bombing it long and hoping


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[Saintanne]

The problem is that all the sides above us apart from Essendon, still to play, and Freemantle have kicked way more total scores than we have . Even a Gold Coast who are next in the ladder after us have scored more. Are we going to blame it all on bad kicking at goal ? Bad kicking is bad football . If we are going to continue with this plan then stick Paddy at ff as he's a better clunk mark than Bruce who needs a run up and Membrey who go a lot of his goals last year from running up the ground and then burning the defender off by running back like Roo does . Besides I have been questioning the game plan since the intra club match when it became obvious what the plan was , I just haven't mentioned it on here . My wife is sick of me talking about it. I'm just saying that it was much better to watch than just bombing it long and hoping


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Also, why change the way they were playing when they were scoring successfully? Bruce a couple of years ago and Membrey last Season. It's like Richo wants them to Be brilliant in all areas but they end up being mediocre instead cause they're just expected to do too much. I honestly don't indulge in the if only Bont and Petracca excercise, but I do wonder where they would be playing if we had taken them. Probably running around a bit confused.

 

[joop]

Also, why change the way they were playing when they were scoring successfully? Bruce a couple of years ago and Membrey last Season. It's like Richo wants them to Be brilliant in all areas but they end up being mediocre instead cause they're just expected to do too much. I honestly don't indulge in the if only Bont and Petracca excercise, but I do wonder where they would be playing if we had taken them. Probably running around a bit confused.

Agree 100%.
So many ofour players aren't being left to play & develop in their natural positions. Instead the coaches are trying to turn them into something.
Billings is dangerous up forward, now we are seeing him on the wing and getting kicks in the back half.
Bruce kicked 50 goals a couple years ago so now they're playing him in the ruck.
Paddy is a stay at home forward, so they're trying to get him to play more up the ground.
I have no idea how Dunstan is allowed play so much through the middle but Acres still gets barely any time through there in comparison.
Compared to a lot of teams I think our development is pretty poor.

 

[Saint Watto]

The improvement in this team is pretty clear just by the improvement in our opposition.

Are we seeing development? **** oath we are.

That is certainly a heartening comment......I can see why so many...on the surface......think we have maybe have gone backwards so far this year.......

I certainly think our draw and the wins last year were a little misleading for many forecasting how we'd go this year......

We squeaked home against the Ess Reserves side..

Won by a couple of goals against Rich

got up in the last 15 mins against Freo

But had some great wins against the Blues(X2).....Dees(X2)....the Dogs and the Cats.

No one thought we'd win 12 games...that caught everyone by surprise....

It will be very interesting to see how we go from here.

We just have to win this week against the Hawks.

 

[Saintbloke]

Richo doesn't seem to think out of the box. I reckon other coaches see us as pretty predictable and as a result can nullify our game-plans..if any exist. The forward line hasn't worked well at all, the midfield is terrible.

 

[Saintanne]

Watching the Bombers play with flair, energy and freedom, especially the younger players, is depressing. MacGrath allowed to pay in the midfield! Hope Richo was watching!

 

[wayneolsen]

maybe worsfold was watching gresh in the middle and copied richo

i also reckon we play with flair energy freedom and daring

i love watching the saints and their style however just not quite good enough yet

 

[Geary Is GOAT]

Richo doesn't seem to think out of the box. I reckon other coaches see us as pretty predictable and as a result can nullify our game-plans..if any exist. The forward line hasn't worked well at all, the midfield is terrible.

Sorry mate but this is just wrong. First 5 weeks our scoring shots look like this 25, 32, 37, 24, 23. What's Richo meant to do? Go out as the designated kicker? The forward line is working in terms of taking marks inside 50 and shooting at goal but if they don't kick goals then what more can you do?

Were we predictable and nullified when we pushed westcoast for 3 quarters? Or Geelong for three quarters? Running out of puff is one thing but saying Richo is predictable is trash.

>our game-plans..if any exist

Hear that? That's your credibility going down like a Malaysian airlines flight

 

[FQFjt]

I can't think of a time under Richo where he's really pulled off a surprise coaching move mid-game. It's all pretty straightforward rotations and the odd extra man. I've wrote about this a few times, but it does suggest a completely risk averse attitude coupled with a lack of imagination.

Until this year, I could understand why we would just stubbornly stick to our plans and structures from a development point of view. But this year, we are playing to win, and playing for finals. We should be pulling out all stops to win.

As for assistant coaches, the loss of Luke Beveridge as head of football has also struck me as a devastating change in our plans. Both from a footy IQ perspective (coming from Hawthorn) and a coaching structure perspective. Not to mention, success seems to follow Bevo around like it's his shadow.

 

[BrianSpeaking]

Can I point out that he doesn't appear to have a plan b , lol


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Very fair comment, and pretty accurate from what we've seen this season. Having said that, our goal kicking has been atrocious, school boy standard.
Don't forget we play indoor football most weeks!!! Take them back in a time capsule to Moorabbin in winter with more mud than grass, they have it waaaaaaaay too easy these days.

 

[holllywood]

There was another thread roasting our goal kicking but here is some food for thought and adding to what LonietoMcCartin said;

Our forwards (apart from Roo) have been inexcusable;

Bruce - 7.7
Membrey- 7.5
Gresham - 6.9
Weller - 5.7
Lonie - 3.5
Billings - 2.6
Ross- 1.4

Fix this up, and things will look a lot better.

 

[Saint Shags]

Sorry mate but this is just wrong. First 5 weeks our scoring shots look like this 25, 32, 37, 24, 23. What's Richo meant to do? Go out as the designated kicker? The forward line is working in terms of taking marks inside 50 and shooting at goal but if they don't kick goals then what more can you do?

Were we predictable and nullified when we pushed westcoast for 3 quarters? Or Geelong for three quarters? Running out of puff is one thing but saying Richo is predictable is trash.

>our game-plans..if any exist

Hear that? That's your credibility going down like a Malaysian airlines flight

Seems as though it is easier to blame the coach. Although I have yet to see him take a shot on goal for us this season....

There are so many armchair coaches in the forum at present.
I would love to know what they would consider as a plan B? What does it entail?
And what is a surprise move? Is that Gilbert into the middle like on the weekend. Geary as a tagger against Rockliff? Gresham lining up on the wing?
I sense we would rather some magical out of left field solution rather than focus on the straightforward issues.
1. We have lapses within play. Sunday was a great example. Heads dropped after the Cats got 2 goals in front. Most of the younger blokes seemed to wave the white flag and it made them look so so tired. Gresh holds that mark and slots it I reckon different story unfolds.

2. Goal kicking. There needs to be group therapy for our forwards. Watch them line up for goal and you can see the pressure on their faces. They are terrified of missing again.

 

[Nutsngum]

I can't think of a time under Richo where he's really pulled off a surprise coaching move mid-game. It's all pretty straightforward rotations and the odd extra man. I've wrote about this a few times, but it does suggest a completely risk averse attitude coupled with a lack of imagination.

Until this year, I could understand why we would just stubbornly stick to our plans and structures from a development point of view. But this year, we are playing to win, and playing for finals. We should be pulling out all stops to win.

As for assistant coaches, the loss of Luke Beveridge as head of football has also struck me as a devastating change in our plans. Both from a footy IQ perspective (coming from Hawthorn) and a coaching structure perspective. Not to mention, success seems to follow Bevo around like it's his shadow.

People keep saying this but what kind of surprise coaching moves should he be doing?

 

[joop]

People keep saying this but what kind of surprise coaching moves should he be doing?

Drop Dunstan...

 

[plugger66]

I can't think of a time under Richo where he's really pulled off a surprise coaching move mid-game. It's all pretty straightforward rotations and the odd extra man. I've wrote about this a few times, but it does suggest a completely risk averse attitude coupled with a lack of imagination.

Until this year, I could understand why we would just stubbornly stick to our plans and structures from a development point of view. But this year, we are playing to win, and playing for finals. We should be pulling out all stops to win.

As for assistant coaches, the loss of Luke Beveridge as head of football has also struck me as a devastating change in our plans. Both from a footy IQ perspective (coming from Hawthorn) and a coaching structure perspective. Not to mention, success seems to follow Bevo around like it's his shadow.

I would be more pissed off this year if he did a surprise move mid game than any other year as we have just about lead or been in every single game at the half way mark. And to be honest I doubt many of us would know surprise moves anyway mid game. Gilbert went on the ball against the Cats. Surely we don't want Lonie rucking or playing FB. And we never had Bevo so if that has effected us we are in real trouble.

 

[Jade Buddha]

There was another thread roasting our goal kicking but here is some food for thought and adding to what LonietoMcCartin said;

Our forwards (apart from Roo) have been inexcusable;

Bruce - 7.7
Membrey- 7.5
Gresham - 6.9
Weller - 5.7
Lonie - 3.5
Billings - 2.6
Ross- 1.4

Fix this up, and things will look a lot better.

You forgot this bloke

Dunstan - 4.3

 

[FQFjt]

Those denying the existence (and utility) of left field moves obviously do not watch much football


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[bergholt]

Sorry mate but this is just wrong. First 5 weeks our scoring shots look like this 25, 32, 37, 24, 23. What's Richo meant to do? Go out as the designated kicker? The forward line is working in terms of taking marks inside 50 and shooting at goal but if they don't kick goals then what more can you do?

He could tell them not to lead into the pockets so much, and if they do, not to have low percentage shots from there but to look for the next pass.

I reckon we've kicked something like 5.25 from dumb shots so far this year. We've missed some easy ones too, but if those 25 behinds had been passes with 50% chance of making an easier shot, we would have won more games.

If that's a team rule then it has to be on the coach.

 

[Brains Trust66]

There was another thread roasting our goal kicking but here is some food for thought and adding to what LonietoMcCartin said;

Our forwards (apart from Roo) have been inexcusable;

Bruce - 7.7
Membrey- 7.5
Gresham - 6.9
Weller - 5.7
Lonie - 3.5
Billings - 2.6
Ross- 1.4

Fix this up, and things will look a lot better.

Interesting, I've been wondering what our top goal kicker for the season will be this year and I can't see anyone getting past 40


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[Saintbloke]

Bad kicking is bad football- it's a team skill deficiency and it really falls back on the coach. He has been there a few years now, and I don't see much improving. The forward line has had no real obvious structure all season, the forwards seem intent on trying to out-muscle their opponents rather than making big efforts to get in the clear and provide an option, and the midfield when they get the ball, don't seem to have any idea who and where they should be kicking, and just bomb it- again, a team discipline issue with the ball and it falls at the coach's feet. I'm getting a bit sick of excuses, and players being singled out for blame- it's a team game, and the team should be performing a whole lot better at this stage.