Geelong 2007 vs Hawthorn 2014 - who would win?

[Slysh]

Premiership, Brownlow, Rising star, Norm Smith, AFLPA MVP, AFLPA Best first year player, 3 games clear on top of the ladder after H&A, highest winning margin in GF history, 9 All Australians, All Australian Coach and the list goes on. No team has been awarded that many accolades in one season since Geelong in 07, they dominated the competition in 07 more than Hawthorn did in any of their flag years. Cats are the better team.

They are just a bunch of individual awards though, doesn’t mean the Cats were the better team.

champion team beats a team of champions.

 

[Pessimistic]

You beat us in Round 4 2007 by 4 points, and as history shows we got much better as the season went on....Just like in 2014 when we beat you guys in Round 5, but by the end you were much better....It really is a poor comparison. The best measurements in these type of one year comparisons are amount of wins during the H&A season, the percentage of the teams, winning records against fellow finalists & of course the actual finals results. In all these aforementioned metrics, Geelong of 2007 come out on top.

historically, hawthorn are a far better finals team than Geelong....although neither are flash right now

 

[Pessimistic]

Premiership, Brownlow, Rising star, Norm Smith, AFLPA MVP, AFLPA Best first year player, 3 games clear on top of the ladder after H&A, highest winning margin in GF history, 9 All Australians, All Australian Coach and the list goes on. No team has been awarded that many accolades in one season since Geelong in 07, they dominated the competition in 07 more than Hawthorn did in any of their flag years. Cats are the better team.

op needs to change title to ‘who has the most all australians’ it’s undisputable

 

[Pessimistic]

Anyone who watched the game more than once and actually sat down and watched every single one of those rushed behinds with the express purpose of testing the validity of this theory (hey, how you doin'...) could tell you that the 3 instances of it happening before the game was broken in half by Stewie Dew were negligibly influential...at that point, Geelong were f###ed and we had it, and THEN we started walking across the goal line...

In all honesty, Hawthorn killed the kraken that day, and the best team in 2008 was Geelong. We were just equipped well enough for a boss battle on ultra-hard, and as you know, no one button mashes their way out of one of those - it takes concentration and discipline and often the learning of serious lessons on the way. No one with common sense thinks 2008 Hawthorn was better than 2008 Geelong as on paper football teams...

‘thanks to umpire charity they went into 3/4 time just 17 pts down. One of the best teams ever and the opponents at least three stuck on the bench.

so really, not a great team

 

[Lsta062]

Anyone who watched the game more than once and actually sat down and watched every single one of those rushed behinds with the express purpose of testing the validity of this theory (hey, how you doin'...) could tell you that the 3 instances of it happening before the game was broken in half by Stewie Dew were negligibly influential...at that point, Geelong were f###ed and we had it, and THEN we started walking across the goal line...

In all honesty, Hawthorn killed the kraken that day, and the best team in 2008 was Geelong. We were just equipped well enough for a boss battle on ultra-hard, and as you know, no one button mashes their way out of one of those - it takes concentration and discipline and often the learning of serious lessons on the way. No one with common sense thinks 2008 Hawthorn was better than 2008 Geelong as on paper football teams...

Oh it was definitely implemented as a strategy and it was executed brilliantly. It was smart and it clearly paid off. Geelong did not see it coming and I don’t have an issue with saying that because the results speak for themselves.

I sometimes like to think that Richmond of 2008 inspired Hawthorn with how we won against Essendon through the rushed behinds thing. But then I remember that Richmond didn’t even inspire their supporters back in the day and come back to reality.

 

[Seeds]

hodge offered the good side of his ribs for stokes to jab at. Sucked in

stokes Mooney lonergan injured Chapman and off their game Mooney and Johnson.

v buddy rough willo dew etc etc. looks less like a boil over as it recedes into history

Geelong pantsed itself in front of goal in the first half. Should of been 6 goals up at half time. Hawthorn were on top of play for only 15 mins in the entire game. Biggest choke of all time.

 

[Seeds]

If it was a H&A game, Cats for sure.

Knockout final, put your house, your car, and your very last dollar on us....

in 2013 prelim geelong was missing 2 all australians, had both ruckman out and a lame duck hawkins who couldnt jog let alone walk or jump and you guys had a week off rest and you barely scraped over the line in the dying minutes. In those last 20 minutes geelong players were just bombing torps cos they couldnt run anymore. You still barely scrapped in.

 

[Slysh]

in 2013 prelim geelong was missing 2 all australians, had both ruckman out and a lame duck hawkins who couldnt jog let alone walk or jump and you guys had a week off rest and you barely scraped over the line in the dying minutes. In those last 20 minutes geelong players were just bombing torps cos they couldnt run anymore. You still barely scrapped in.

Lol... The previous post you mention that you should have been up 6 goals at half time in the 08 GF and pantsed itself in front of goal. Yet we kicked 14.18 in this game and the Cats kicked 15.7.

You say we only had the play for 15 minutes in the GF and yet here we had 64 inside 50’s compared to 42 from the Cats In the prelim.

Yet somehow the Cats should have won both... okay champ

 

[MinerBoy]

Lol... The previous post you mention that you should have been up 6 goals at half time in the 08 GF and pantsed itself in front of goal. Yet we kicked 14.18 in this game and the Cats kicked 15.7.

You say we only had the play for 15 minutes in the GF and yet here we had 64 inside 50’s compared to 42 from the Cats In the prelim.

Yet somehow the Cats should have won both... okay champ

Yep the Hawks themselves were the only reason we didn't have a sizeable lead in the 2013 PF and then 5 minutes of madness from the umpires just prior to 3/4 time gifted the Cats a 20 point lead that they took in to the final quarter.

As for 2008 GF. The first quarter was high standard from both teams with nothing separating them at 1/4 time. The Cats definitely dominated field position in the 2nd but never overly threatened the goals. Yes they missed a few notable chances but the Hawks basically played a Swans style footy and just held them off from a defensive position and then when the chance arose went bang on the counter. The Cats started the 3rd again with some possession time but from about half way through the 3rd until the final siren it was all Hawks apart from 2 late goals in the 3rd to the Cats (no comment on some decisions during that patch either).

So the Hawks were on top for at least a quarter and a half....as in well on top and dominating. The Cats had a period of possession domination without hurt for about a quarter in total and the rest of the game was an arm wrestle. Hawks only being on top for 15 minutes was utter BS.

 

[Yojimbo]

Geelong 2007 Versus Hawthorn 2014: (Let's get ready to rumble)

V.O.S.S Progression:
Geel 2007- 12, 12, 11, 8 = 43
Haw 2014- 10, 10, 7, 5, = 32

D.P.G:
Geel 2007- 17.38
Haw 2014- 21.05

The Winner by TKO and still the heavy weight champion of the world, Geelong 2007.

 

[Roddy]

in 2013 prelim geelong was missing 2 all australians, had both ruckman out and a lame duck hawkins who couldnt jog let alone walk or jump and you guys had a week off rest and you barely scraped over the line in the dying minutes. In those last 20 minutes geelong players were just bombing torps cos they couldnt run anymore. You still barely scrapped in.

HA! Typical delusional cat fan excuse making again. It was only close because the umps had their usual time in the game when they bent over backwards and turned themselves inside out trying to get you over the line (have a look back at late in the 3rd quarter, where even Tom Harley stated, diplomatically, that the cats were 'getting the rub of the green'), and because we kicked poorly (we kicked 4.8 to 1.1 in the last), just as you did in 2008. It should have been a comfortable 5-6 goal victory.

Living in Hawk-hating fantasy land as usual....

 

[Yojimbo]

Port Adelaide 2007 Versus Sydney 2014: (Let's get ready to rumble)

V.O.S.S Progression:
Port 2007- 4, 3, 3, 4 = 14
Syd 2014- 5, 3, 5, 6 = 19

D.P.G:
Port 2007- 58.33
Syd 2014- 27.09

The winner, their volumes were low, but boy could they go, Sydney 2014.

 

[SSSSSS]

Hawthorn 2014 took the foot off the throat at half time.

2014 would beat 07 comfortably.

 

[Roddy]

Hawthorn 2014 took the foot off the throat at half time.

2014 would beat 07 comfortably.

Sydney of 2014 would beat Geelong of 2007....

 

[Elmer_Judd]

I am honestly baffled to see why Hawthorn 2014 is losing this poll, given they were recently voted the best premiership team of the decade.

Does the fact they backed it up the following year, which is something Geelong 07 never did, mean nothing?

 

[MinerBoy]

The Swans of 2014 were a formidable side, far moreso than Port of 2007 which really had an extraordinarily weak top 4 that year (Cats aside).

The Hawks went through 2014 with multiple long term injuries to likes of Rioli, Mitchell, Gibson and Lake (and there were others), as well as Clarko himself being ill and absent for 5 weeks. And I believe missed Lewis and Hodge from the early season loss to the Swans after their suspensions following the North game, and then copped injuries in game.

If there was ever a season we shouldn't have won that was it. Yet despite it all we finished equal wins with Swans and Cats and while the Cats had a terrible %, the Hawks still had a % of 140 and finished only a breath off Sydney in top spot.

By the time finals had come around the full band was back together and to anyone that was paying attention were clearly the team to beat. That side was amazing. To finish on equal wins with a massive % despite all the hurdles for the season was huge. Come September we were primed and absolutely destroyed a highly touted opponent come the grand final. Despite 2007 having a greater final margin, the 2014 was the most complete GF display of football perfection against a quality opponent.

 

[Mjs94]

I am honestly baffled to see why Hawthorn 2014 is losing this poll, given they were recently voted the best premiership team of the decade.

Does the fact they backed it up the following year, which is something Geelong 07 never did, mean nothing?

No, it literally means nothing. This is a comparison of Geelong in 2007 and Hawthorn in 2014. If you want to include Hawthorn in 2015 you would also include Geelong in 2008 and that is a different question with, likely, a different answer.

Hawks had the better era but strictly 2007 vs. 2014, 2007 wins.

 

[blue harvest]

We beat them in 2007 and our 2014 side was heaps better. Simples.

 

[Pessimistic]

in 2013 prelim geelong was missing 2 all australians, had both ruckman out and a lame duck hawkins who couldnt jog let alone walk or jump and you guys had a week off rest and you barely scraped over the line in the dying minutes. In those last 20 minutes geelong players were just bombing torps cos they couldnt run anymore. You still barely scrapped in.

your three subs did their bit though

 

[Gibbke]

Which part of the season are we talking about? Geelong were beaten by us early in 2007 with a side we were hoping but not expecting could make the finals, and the game before that was John Barker's farewell at Docklands in 2006, where the Cats were abjectly shithouse...

After the first two months though, the Cats rewrote their own story...ignoring the first rounds until that honesty day where Gaz was told to pull his finger out, they only lost the one game in a huge upset at KP to Port, and beat the other finalists by nothing overly dominant, just enough for it to be safe at the buzzer. This kinda tells you that the team was still finding their feet with a lineup that would be way superior to everyone a year from that point (that's not a criticism either, the side understandably improved as they kept going, and any other team would kill to have that sort of "development"). They were the best team, impressively solid, but the results a year later would be better, and in that season they came up short...

Hawthorn in early 2014 were far superior to early 2007 Geelong, but mid season were struggling with a ton of injuries and setbacks, from the coach through the lineup. All 5 losses were narrowish but emphatic enough on the day, no excuses. The gradual return of players lined up like the planets to form the ideal meeting point of form and availability by September, and those of us barracking for the Hawks gleefully snapped up the $4 odds for the GF, because we knew what David King didn't...! That flag is arguably the best effort a Hawk side has put in over a season to win a flag, due to the odds and the sheer quality of the team to make that happen...check out my day, post 495...!:

Ultimate Glory - Hawks vs Swans - We take flag number 12 - our greatest flag - The Hard Way.

Congrats on winning back to back flags. Well deserved !!! Champion team , captain and coach! Made Sydney look embarrassing! Good luck in 2015!

www.bigfooty.com

Hawthorn beat Geelong and Sydney in the finals, Geelong best North and Port...both convincing...the Hawks with arguably the better quality scalps but Geelong making a bloodier mess of their opponents. Both were lucky to make the GF at all after nearly completely screwing up their PF's...

I'm leaning to the Hawks in a September clash because:
a) Bias...! We're all flying a flag here, get your hand off it if you think you aren't...!
b) It would be a match between blossoming brilliance and gritty experience...I just think we might have crunched them early the same way we did Sydney! A lesser side took on a better Cats team in 2008 and won through discipline, tactics and arguably a poor attitudinal preparation from Geelong (Thompson has admitted he was concerned on the day), so I'm struggling to think a team like 2007 Geelong that was still a comparative virgin when it came to embodying the ways of all-conquering dynasties, would be a clear favourite over a 2014 team that had seen it and done it, unlike the enthusiastically unsociable Hawks of 2008...

 

[Luv_our_club]

in 2013 prelim geelong was missing 2 all australians, had both ruckman out and a lame duck hawkins who couldnt jog let alone walk or jump and you guys had a week off rest and you barely scraped over the line in the dying minutes. In those last 20 minutes geelong players were just bombing torps cos they couldnt run anymore. You still barely scrapped in.

If we kicked straight, and the boundary umpire could see at the end of the 3rd, and Cyril didn't handball to Franklin in the last second of the 4th, it would have been a 25-30 point win to us.


Geelong v Haw games were always close during the curse. The 2013 prelim wasn't as close as the previous games in my opinion (except on the score board)




p.s. We also should have won the game where Hawkins kicked after the siren. The most blatant holding the ball decision was missed in the last two minutes, 40 meters out directly in front of our goal.

 

[Seeds]

I am honestly baffled to see why Hawthorn 2014 is losing this poll, given they were recently voted the best premiership team of the decade.

Does the fact they backed it up the following year, which is something Geelong 07 never did, mean nothing?

Yes it means nothign as it was a different year. And you played west coast

If we kicked straight, and the boundary umpire could see at the end of the 3rd, and Cyril didn't handball to Franklin in the last second of the 4th, it would have been a 30 point win to us.


Geelong v Haw games were always close during the curse. This one wasn't in my opinion, except on the score board.




p.s. We also should have won the game where Hawkins kicked after the siren. The most blatant holding the ball decision was missed in the last two minutes, 40 meters out directly in front of our goal.

You dont want to start talking about kicking straight. That reverses the 2008 gf result.

ps. With the advantages you had in 2013 due to week off and our missing players you should of won by 50 points.

 

[Luv_our_club]

Yes it means nothign as it was a different year. And you played west coast

You dont want to start talking about kicking straight. That reverses the 2008 gf.

ps. With the advantages you had in 2013 due to week off and our missing players you should of won by 50 points.

We should have won the 2013 prelim easily based on talent... but prelims are like that. The week off is meh. I think we won the game.... regardless of the score board... quite well.


The 2008 grand final win wasn't really about the Cat's bad kicking for goal. If you watch it 50 times, like me, you will see that. Bad kicking from the Cats just meant the scores were not tied with 5 minutes to go.

 

[Luv_our_club]

You dont want to start talking about kicking straight. That reverses the 2008 gf result.

How does a 4peat grab you?

We can say we lost 2012 to bad goal kicking.

11.15 to 14.7 and we lost by 10 points

 

[imadodgyumpire]

I'm glad the right team is leading the poll. 19 pages of justifications or diminishing is just the equivalent of keyboard farting.

Geelong lifted footy to another level. Hawthorn and even Collingwood benefited from them.

It doesn't mean they're perfect. Obviously they got burnt by the Hawks in the GF and Pies in the PF. But the manner in which they played and their body of work is of such substance, that it overrides all the nonsensical reasons used to diminish them.

Overall they were so good, they don't even need to have won two or more GFs in a row to be seriously considered as an all time great team. Brisbane and Hawthorn would have a serious hole in their credibility if they hadn't gone 3 in a row.

On another note, I reckon 2010 Collingwood would touch up any of the Hawks GF teams.