News Geelong being sued by former player alleging sexual assault.

[western royboy]

If it happened 40 years ago and there was no witnesses and no one named I'd be the first one saying it. Followed by two words - prove and it.

Just saying something doesn't make it true. Believe it or not, people do make stuff up. And they do lie. For all sorts of reasons. Automatically believing any claimant just because is absolutely insane and unbelievably naive, as well as being completely ignorant of basic human nature.

As the voice of experience in a matter of a similar nature, the % of false claims is pretty minute, and the process they are embarking on (albeit civil, not criminal first) is no fun. It takes big nuts to go down this path and usually you are driven by a pretty strong desire to get some accountability. There was a recently deceased Cardinal who escaped criminal prosecution on child sexual abuse on appeal to the High Court. I would suggest to you strongly that there are likely numerous civil claims of a similar nature that were settled on the quiet. Did the incidents happen? I used to go to a mens group for people abused as kids, there were alleged victims of The Cardinal there, seemed a lot of trouble to go to for shits and gigs.

Bottom Line - none of this is black and white and there will be no winners here regardless of the outcome - except the lawyers

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

Understand, but the complainant is still obliged to present some evidence to support the claim.

Simply saying something doesn't mean it's true.

I never said he didn't. But the evidence in a civil case doesn't need to prove beyond reasonable doubt the offenses occurred. It just has to show that, more likely than not, it happened. That comes from things like evidence showing the offenders were there at the time the abuse happened. Eyewitnesses who saw the players with the boy at that time (but not necessarily the abuse). Things like that. I'm sure his lawyers wouldn't have started a case if they didn't think they had enough evidence to prove it likely happened.

It may not get to court anyway. Geelong might offer the victim a settlement.

 

[feelinfeline]

As the voice of experience in a matter of a similar nature, the % of false claims is pretty minute, and the process they are embarking on (albeit civil, not criminal first) is no fun. It takes big nuts to go down this path and usually you are driven by a pretty strong desire to get some accountability. There was a recently deceased Cardinal who escaped criminal prosecution on child sexual abuse on appeal to the High Court. I would suggest to you strongly that there are likely numerous civil claims of a similar nature that were settled on the quiet. Did the incidents happen? I used to go to a mens group for people abused as kids, there were alleged victims of The Cardinal there, seemed a lot of trouble to go to for shits and gigs.

Bottom Line - none of this is black and white and there will be no winners here regardless of the outcome - except the lawyers

Former teen footballer sues Geelong Football Club over alleged rape

A former Geelong under-19s footballer is suing the club after he was allegedly raped by a group of older players in the 1980s.

www.theage.com.au

Agree. You would have to be masochistic, if not insane, to go down this path if you didn’t feel very strongly aggrieved. Sounds like this person does.

 

[western royboy]

I never said he didn't. But the evidence in a civil case doesn't need to prove beyond reasonable doubt the offenses occurred. It just has to show that, more likely than not, it happened. That comes from things like evidence showing the offenders were there at the time the abuse happened. Eyewitnesses who saw the players with the boy at that time (but not necessarily the abuse). Things like that. I'm sure his lawyers wouldn't have started a case if they didn't think they had enough evidence to prove it likely happened.

It may not get to court anyway. Geelong might offer the victim a settlement.

Chances of this going to court - Nil

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Bottom Line - none of this is black and white and there will be no winners here regardless of the outcome - except the lawyers

You seem to have experience in this area - just one question - and obviously he is being legally advised

But if that happened to me - and i wanted justice/closure - and like they say - you dont get angry - you get even

But i would be naming and shaming the 3 who did it to me without a doubt - and also i would be doing what he is doing - saying Geelong FC should have had much better control re that house sharing thing

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

Chances of this going to court - Nil

I agree. And I hope it doesn't because that would be terrible for the victim to have relive it all so publicly. It should go into mediation where the plaintiff's lawyer can present the evidence they have. If the club can see it's on the balance of probability true, then they should offer them a settlement. That's just my opinion.

I don't believe the Club has done anything wrong here (if the allegations are true), but as the players were under Geelong's governance, they are liable for these actions.

 

[Strange Cat]

Former teen footballer sues Geelong Football Club over alleged rape

A former Geelong under-19s footballer is suing the club after he was allegedly raped by a group of older players in the 1980s.

www.theage.com.au

Agree. You would have to be masochistic, if not insane, to go down this path if you didn’t feel very strongly aggrieved. Sounds like this person does.

I went through a similar civil case that took 4-5 years to be resolved , got * all in monetary compensation considering the 30+ years of trauma but I did get the apology and acknowledgement that it did occur

That was enough for me , but the entire process is a very traumatic experience where the opposition constantly tries to degrade you and make you out to be a liar and money grabbing opportunistic despite the ordeal i and others went through

It’s far from easy to go through and even far less to make it up and continue on with the facade under that duress for several years

 

[western royboy]

You seem to have experience in this area - just one question - and obviously he is being legally advised

But if that happened to me - and i wanted justice/closure - and like they say - you dont get angry - you get even

But i would be naming and shaming the 3 who did it to me without a doubt - and also i would be doing what he is doing - saying Geelong FC should have had much better control re that house sharing thing

Sadly I do, but I went thru the criminal system first - got a conviction and then went thru the civil courts to take on the real perpetrators the Catholic Church.

This is same, same but different. The cards were stacked in my favour once I got the criminal conviction as the Church could not deny the incident occurred. Still they fought me at every turn, pulling some of the lowest legal stunt’s possible right up until the death.

This is a very different and more difficult scenario for a number of reasons and I totally get and understand the approach the complainant has taken as a result. He has zero chance of having the perpetrators charged criminally unless there are other victims. This at least gets things moving and believe me if you’ve made the decision to go down this track (2 year’s minimum) you don’t want to delay it once you’ve started. If others pop out if the woodwork it’s a bonus for him but the process has at least commenced.

A few comments - it would be unlikely in the extreme that something like this was a one off - whether other people are prepared to come forward is another thing. In my situation, I was sort of the first from my town but not the first victim of the perpetrator - following my case at least 4-5 others have followed in behind me.

There will be no winners and the path to resolution will be very tricky, because if the situation. Obviously I rate Geelong as a club very highly, it’s going to be hard to stay on the right side of this whatever that may turn out to be.

 

[western royboy]

I agree. And I hope it doesn't because that would be terrible for the victim to have relive it all so publicly. It should go into mediation where the plaintiff's lawyer can present the evidence they have. If the club can see it's on the balance of probability true, then they should offer them a settlement. That's just my opinion.

I don't believe the Club has done anything wrong here (if the allegations are true), but as the players were under Geelong's governance, they are liable for these actions.

From a purely legal point of view, the question is did the Club have a duty of care to the complainant to protect him from harm from other players?

I can’t answer that and that’s up for wiser legal minds than me to decide and I doubt if they will ever get that chance.

So from a Geelong perspective they could legally try and argue that they have no liability - it was an incident perpetrated by three sick campaigners. Noting in Church cases the only reason that many cases against my perpetrator have been successful is because my legal team got the church to admit that they had prior knowledge of his offending. In this case there is unlikely to be by of that. So Geelong could play legal hardball and they’d be a fair chance of winning.

BUT

They risk coming out of it looking morally bankrupt.. like the Catholic Church - totally heartless and motivated by $ rather than embracing the “looking after our people”

This will be settled out of court and we are unlikely to ever know the truth. Personally I hope the complainant finds some peace and hopefully that is sooner rather than later.

And I really hope that the bloke that used to wear 17 stays well clear of this.

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

This will be settled out of court and we are unlikely to ever know the truth. Personally I hope the complainant finds some peace and hopefully that is sooner rather than later.

Which is pretty much what I said.

 

[AM]

From a purely legal point of view, the question is did the Club have a duty of care to the complainant to protect him from harm from other players?

I can’t answer that and that’s up for wiser legal minds than me to decide and I doubt if they will ever get that chance.

So from a Geelong perspective they could legally try and argue that they have no liability - it was an incident perpetrated by three sick campaigners. Noting in Church cases the only reason that many cases against my perpetrator have been successful is because my legal team got the church to admit that they had prior knowledge of his offending. In this case there is unlikely to be by of that. So Geelong could play legal hardball and they’d be a fair chance of winning.

BUT

They risk coming out of it looking morally bankrupt.. like the Catholic Church - totally heartless and motivated by $ rather than embracing the “looking after our people”

This will be settled out of court and we are unlikely to ever know the truth. Personally I hope the complainant finds some peace and hopefully that is sooner rather than later.

And I really hope that the bloke that used to wear 17 stays well clear of this.

That's the concerning part in many ways, isn't it? Not apropos of anything to do with this case, but not knowing what occurs with at least a significant degree of certainly encourages ambulance chasers to take their chances.

You said earlier that "the % of false claims is pretty minute" Merely as a counterpoint research spanning over 7 years in matters before the Family Court showed that only 14% of the abuse allegations were found to be true. So it's complicated.

I hope the club doesn't take the course of least resistance and is convinced by the evidence they didn't take reasonable care in the circumstances. Not only on behalf of the club but those who have been accused and or implicated in an alleged horrific matter that occurred over 30 years ago.

So sorry to read of your awful experience.

 

[western royboy]

That's the concerning part in many ways, isn't it? Not apropos of anything to do with this case, but not knowing what occurs with at least a significant degree of certainly encourages ambulance chasers to take their chances.

You said earlier that "the % of false claims is pretty minute" Merely as a counterpoint research spanning over 7 years in matters before the Family Court showed that only 14% of the abuse allegations were found to be true. So it's complicated.

I hope the club doesn't take the course of least resistance and is convinced by the evidence they didn't take reasonable care in the circumstances. Not only on behalf of the club but those who have been accused and or implicated in an alleged horrific matter that occurred over 30 years ago.

So sorry to read of your awful experience.

Don’t confuse the family court with this stuff - completely different s**t show - different motivations so I wouldn’t compare as I think that is totally different.

I have been contacted by ambulance chasers with regard to potential claimants suggesting certain things. In one case a person alleged that they were interfered with by my perpetrator in my town a year before the perp arrived in the town! The suggestion was he used to visit our school prior to his appointment! I gave the lawyer a pretty big pull thru suggesting the worst thing you could do was have some scum try and cash in on the misfortune of other victims. I also requested the name as most of us victims know who is legit and who is not, not surprisingly they “couldn’t do that” - the firm ditched the client.

To my knowledge - and this is only my analysis one case got thru and a complainant was awarded damages. It rang alarm bells because the modus op of the perp was well known, yet what was alleged was completely different. The Judge found in favour on the balance of probabilities but awarded minimal compensation well below what the legal costs would have been.

So a long story but the vetting of potential complainants is usually very thorough. Big Legal firms don’t waste time and money on cases that have no hope and ATB are running this and they’re pretty good at it.

I sincerely doubt this is baseless and I appreciate your thoughts

 

[jim boy]

Even if this was to get to court, which is quite unlikely, I'm not sure anyone would want to be getting down to veracity of the details of the alleged rape. It seems to me that the plaintiff has to demonstrate:

1. real post instance trauma and loss
2. that geelong did not have proper processes in place to ensure the safety of underage and vulnerable 'employees'
3. That because of this failing, the plaintiff was raped

There will be plenty of discussion on 1 - after the size of any win is wholly dependent on this. Point 2 is the main argument, if Geelong were in the right, point 3 is irrelevant to Geelong (as distasteful as that sounds). Point 3 is the no-win discussion.

I have no doubt that the Geelong of today would like to right any of the wrongs of the past, but I have no idea how the insurers feel about it. They may want to fight all the way

 

[FredLeDeux]

Even if this was to get to court, which is quite unlikely, I'm not sure anyone would want to be getting down to veracity of the details of the alleged rape. It seems to me that the plaintiff has to demonstrate:

1. real post instance trauma and loss
2. that geelong did not have proper processes in place to ensure the safety of underage and vulnerable 'employees'
3. That because of this failing, the plaintiff was raped

There will be plenty of discussion on 1 - after the size of any win is wholly dependent on this. Point 2 is the main argument, if Geelong were in the right, point 3 is irrelevant to Geelong (as distasteful as that sounds). Point 3 is the no-win discussion.

I have no doubt that the Geelong of today would like to right any of the wrongs of the past, but I have no idea how the insurers feel about it. They may want to fight all the way

On point 2, the “onus of proof” for child sexual abuse claims has been reversed, and it now lies on the organisation to prove it took reasonable steps to prevent abuse from occurring.

 

[thejester]

Hard to believe that if it did happen it was a one off and there was no smoke about what was going on. Very distressing stuff.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

As the voice of experience in a matter of a similar nature, the % of false claims is pretty minute, and the process they are embarking on (albeit civil, not criminal first) is no fun. It takes big nuts to go down this path and usually you are driven by a pretty strong desire to get some accountability. There was a recently deceased Cardinal who escaped criminal prosecution on child sexual abuse on appeal to the High Court. I would suggest to you strongly that there are likely numerous civil claims of a similar nature that were settled on the quiet. Did the incidents happen? I used to go to a mens group for people abused as kids, there were alleged victims of The Cardinal there, seemed a lot of trouble to go to for shits and gigs.

Bottom Line - none of this is black and white and there will be no winners here regardless of the outcome - except the lawyers

Im not having a go at you but i dont think anyone is necessarily saying the allegations are untrue but the truth or lack thereof doesnt necessarily mean they are proveable to the extent that our legal system requires. Which is a system we all as a society seem to accept-and if we dont we should vote with our feet and vote for change in the legal system at the ballot box rather than blaming or demonising people by implying they are mistreating those who have suffered (im not saying you are but plenty of posts on this board and others seem to be in my view) for simply pointing out what is in essence a factual reality of the system as it stands today.

 

[PhatBoy]

Hope the club comes out and owns its interest in the issue and is very strong on it

 

[catscratchfever]

Lots of stuff happened in the VFL/AFL back in the day so it probably happened at GFC too.

Some of you might know what I'm referring to when I mention 'Windows'. And that's only one of the cases involving our club I've heard about.

What a world we live in

 

[Boxhead_31]

Hopefully, the club gives all the support the victim and their broader family needs and the allegations are thoroughly investigated and if proven those that committed the act are punished to the full extent of the law.

 

[Warhorse]

Hard to believe that if it did happen it was a one off and there was no smoke about what was going on. Very distressing stuff.

Yep. Seen this a few times - if someone is good at what they do, management will turn a blind eye to it.

 

[Bostonian]

Growing up and living in Geelong this makes me wonder if any of the three accused are among the two players whose names were known in hushed circles to have been accused of a similar thing but that time it was a woman the victim.

Not naming names but I'm probably not the only one who heard of this incident back in the day. It was always said the club hushed it all up.

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

Is there a time limit in civil cases like this? It's going to be pretty hard to avoid a he said she said when it apparently happened 40 years ago... What level of proof or defence is required for a suit to be a successful and how are financial payouts decided.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Is there a time limit in civil cases like this? It's going to be pretty hard to avoid a he said she said when it apparently happened 40 years ago... What level of proof or defence is required for a suit to be a successful and how are financial payouts decided.

There is no statute of limitations on child abuse cases.