No Oppo Supporters General AFL and other clubs discussion thread. **Opposition fans not welcome** Part 6

[Chief]

This is Part 6.

You can post in Part 7 here:

No Oppo Supporters - General AFL and other clubs discussion thread. **Opposition fans not welcome** Part 7

Previous chat threads can be found here https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/general-afl-and-other-clubs-discussion-thread-opposition-fans-not-welcome-part-5.1223668/ https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/general-afl-and-other-clubs-discussion-thread-opposition-fans-not-welcome-part-6.1244786/

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[spudmaster]

You almost think the years they don't have something going on are the rarest. Lake, Akermanis etc - what do they have in common?

Multiple premierships at other clubs?

 

[TheFourPillars]

Hub issues like us or something deeper?

player disharmony a lot happened with the bulldogs both pre and post season to demonstrate this

 

[MrPremiership]

How does Dunkley reconcile with the events of the off-season?

Wants to leave to get more midfield minutes, they then bring in another midfielder.

 

[Steven Tyler]

How does Dunkley reconcile with the events of the off-season?

Wants to leave to get more midfield minutes, they then bring in another midfielder.

Footy is a team sport

He plays where he is told, and if he sooks it up you get rid of him

He isn’t irreplaceable

 

[Milkshaker]

I've said plenty that I regret, that wasn't my point, not was whether you think Lumumba is full of sh*t or whether the project is trash tv (it is)

You said you don't think Eddie has a racist bone in his body and I said his public record disagrees.

Now there are lots of types of racism and the hardest to deal with is the subconscious racism, we all have it, everyone.

For someone who speaks publicly as a job he's got a real issue with keeping those thoughts internal, his idea of where the line is has gotten further and further from the public over the years.

You don't need Lumumba to see all the things Eddie has said himself on the radio or TV over the past 15 odd years.

Fair points.

See I have an issue with the Hawthorn FC being labelled as having a 'racist ' past. I suspect in the 70's, 80's recruiting indigenous players was probably a greater risk than now.

There was not the money available to set up support programs, Academies, mentoring programs etc.

There were probably no allowances made for indigenous players to return home if needed for family or cultural reasons, particularly during the season and post season. Now we see clubs having special days celebrate cultural events(Cyril's turtle dinner some years back with the players spring to mind). There is an indigenous round. Players visit the regions and run training camps in indigenous locations.

Imo some of the clubs issues in the past stemmed from ignorance and a lack of real understanding. If this is the case, labelling our past leaders and greats of the clubs as being responsible for a 'racist past' is just headline grabbing, insulting and based on not a hell of a lot.

The 'racist' label is a shocking label to throw around based on a few comments made.

If there were racists at the club back then I hope they have gained a greater understanding as time has gone on.

 

[Gralin]

Fair points.

See I have an issue with the Hawthorn FC being labelled as having a 'racist ' past. I suspect in the 70's, 80's recruiting indigenous players was probably a greater risk than now.

There was not the money available to set up support programs, Academies, mentoring programs etc.

There were probably no allowances made for indigenous players to return home if need for family or cultural reasons, particularly during the season and post season. Now we see clubs having special days celebrate cultural (Cyril's turtle dinner some years back with the players spring to mind). There is an indigenous round. Players visit the regions an run training camps in indigenous locations.

Imo some of the clubs issues in the past stemmed from ignorance and a lack of real understanding. If this is the case labelling our past leader and greats of the clubs a being responsible for a 'racist past' is just headline grabbing, insulting and based on not a hell of a lot.

The 'racist' label is a shocking label to throw around based on a few comments made.

If their were racists at the club back then I hope they have gained a greater understanding as time has gone on.

I think people forget it was completely acceptable to be racist as far as most of society was concerned for a long time.

You have to remember that when talking about stuff, half our issue is not wanting to admit it was a problem so that we can move past it

 

[killerspud]

Hub issues like us or something deeper?

Some of the younger ones like it on the edge, apparently a tennis ball filled with coke was lobbed onto a court they were playing on. I'm told their captain is a very straight down the line Young man and is struggling with the tearaways who like to party very very hard. Hunter and Smith are the main two.

 

[MrPremiership]

Footy is a team sport

He plays where he is told, and if he sooks it up you get rid of him

He isn’t irreplaceable

But he did sook it up, and they didn't get rid of him.

 

[killerspud]

Fair points.

See I have an issue with the Hawthorn FC being labelled as having a 'racist ' past. I suspect in the 70's, 80's recruiting indigenous players was probably a greater risk than now.

There was not the money available to set up support programs, Academies, mentoring programs etc.

There were probably no allowances made for indigenous players to return home if need for family or cultural reasons, particularly during the season and post season. Now we see clubs having special days celebrate cultural (Cyril's turtle dinner some years back with the players spring to mind). There is an indigenous round. Players visit the regions an run training camps in indigenous locations.

Imo some of the clubs issues in the past stemmed from ignorance and a lack of real understanding. If this is the case labelling our past leader and greats of the clubs a being responsible for a 'racist past' is just headline grabbing, insulting and based on not a hell of a lot.

The 'racist' label is a shocking label to throw around based on a few comments made.

If their were racists at the club back then I hope they have gained a greater understanding as time has gone on.

For that change in mindset to occur and make recruiting indigenous players a normal thing to do someone had to break out of the old racist mentality that they were a risk. We weren't the ones who did it. Infact we had to wait a long time and the arrival of Clarkson to shift that.

 

[Pessimistic]

Fair points.

See I have an issue with the Hawthorn FC being labelled as having a 'racist ' past. I suspect in the 70's, 80's recruiting indigenous players was probably a greater risk than now.

There was not the money available to set up support programs, Academies, mentoring programs etc.

There were probably no allowances made for indigenous players to return home if need for family or cultural reasons, particularly during the season and post season. Now we see clubs having special days celebrate cultural (Cyril's turtle dinner some years back with the players spring to mind). There is an indigenous round. Players visit the regions an run training camps in indigenous locations.

Imo some of the clubs issues in the past stemmed from ignorance and a lack of real understanding. If this is the case labelling our past leader and greats of the clubs a being responsible for a 'racist past' is just headline grabbing, insulting and based on not a hell of a lot.

The 'racist' label is a shocking label to throw around based on a few comments made.

If their were racists at the club back then I hope they have gained a greater understanding as time has gone on.

Willie Rioli was recruited 1990 and the WA team arrived just a few years earlier. I could be wrong but the current higher levels of indigenous participation took off from then.
Also 71 up till 91 hawks teams were hard to get into. Im not saying the hawks diddt look, but which players would have got in and kept a spot?

I also hear there was a strong bias towards Private school boys. What would be the indigenous participation there? its a recent thing.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Everyone knows Kevin Sheedy invented Aboriginal players.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Everyone knows Kevin Sheedy invented Aboriginal players.

Sheeds is almost Roos-like at his glossy self promotion.

 

[wahawk]

Are you just choosing the bit of evidence that supports your argument?

Haha. That’s been my point all along
Whether it’s the Goodes saga or any other issue.
A doco maker (even reputable ones) a journo, a big footy poster, it doesn’t matter. Everyone has their own opinion & will push that if they do desire.

 

[wahawk]

For that change in mindset to occur and make recruiting indigenous players a normal thing to do someone had to break out of the old racist mentality that they were a risk. We weren't the ones who did it. Infact we had to wait a long time and the arrival of Clarkson to shift that.

Clarko or Turnbull ?
Turnbull recruited Bateman long before Clarko arrived.
But I would assume Clarko has played a massive role with our indigenous players since

 

[grumbleguts]

You're correct.
I only heard the "7-8 years" bit quoted on the news but after listening to the whole interview myself I see now how it was taken out of context by the news report.

No, he'd be correct if he'd said "than less"... "then less" is about as far from correct as you can be.

 

[killerspud]

Clarko or Turnbull ?
Turnbull recruited Bateman long before Clarko arrived.
But I would assume Clarko has played a massive role with our indigenous players since

OK Turnbull was the instigator and had the courage to break away from our previous policies BUT under Clarko I think came a genuine understanding that came from his role at Port

 

[Ned Ryerson]

OK Turnbull was the instigator and had the courage to break away from our previous policies BUT under Clarko I think came a genuine understanding that came from his role at Port

The article about our Indigenous players last week confirmed as much:


Turnbull and coaches Peter Schwab then Alastair Clarkson all listened to what was important to Indigenous players before becoming passionate about the issues themselves, says Bateman.

“The senior coach in a footy club has more clout than anyone, so once ‘Clarko’ was speaking just as passionately and pushing the same course as we were, as Aboriginal players inside the organisation, it was always going to make a difference and create an environment that was culturally safe for Aboriginal players to come into,” he says.

 

[Upgrayedd]

How does Dunkley reconcile with the events of the off-season?

Wants to leave to get more midfield minutes, they then bring in another midfielder.

Not play him in the Ruck. Which he absolutely hated

However his request was overblown, he will be happy to play at the dogs for the rest of his career

 

[Judd2Sewell]

How does Dunkley reconcile with the events of the off-season?

Wants to leave to get more midfield minutes, they then bring in another midfielder.

The Bont, Macrae, Treloar, Dunkley, Smith, Libba, Hunter. What a midfield unit.

At least the Bont, Smith and Dunkley have played forward in the past, and Macrae, Treloar and Hunter can all play on the wing. So I assume they will rotate heavily.

 

[Pessimistic]

Clarko or Turnbull ?
Turnbull recruited Bateman long before Clarko arrived.
But I would assume Clarko has played a massive role with our indigenous players since

Other articles confirm the Turnbull quote, but he said it was said when he was appointed, which was 1995.

The entire board handed over to operation payback so you could surmise that ‘approach’ (if indeed it was official) hasn’t been there for 25 years, in a club 95 years old
But then Willie Rioli snr was recruited in 1990.

 

[Birdofprey]

I'm really interested to see how the Dogs go this year, bullish about their list and I think anything less than a Prelim final appearance will be rather disappointing.

Agree. It will be interesting to see if they can climb back to challenge top four and maybe push the Tigers after dropping back a few years post 2016 premiership. They unusual case - in my head I have them underperforming since their premiership, but in terms of final ladder position I think its about the same each year! (7th or 8th) Can they win enough games throughout the year to hit top 4? I imagine its something that Beveridge and others would be working on. Its cool and fun to be the finals wildcard every year, but chance of pulling it off again from 6-7-8 is always going to be low.

 

[KermitJagger]

The Bont, Macrae, Treloar, Dunkley, Smith, Libba, Hunter. What a midfield unit.

At least the Bont, Smith and Dunkley have played forward in the past, and Macrae, Treloar and Hunter can all play on the wing. So I assume they will rotate heavily.

If midfields were enough, the Pies would have won a flag. Reckon the dogs lack a bit too much in other areas of the ground.

Lions and Port are the ones to watch IMO. Lions have added Daniher which was their one desperate need, they've got the smart smalls up front that apply pressure, the good disposal out of D50 and now two of the best KPP in the game - add to that a handful of extremely good youngsters that haven't hit their peak yet.

If they can get Cockatoo fit and firing, he and Charlie Cameron will be as close as possible to Rioli and Puopolo as far as "shitting your dacks if you've got the ball in defense" goes.

 

[Brishawk]

If midfields were enough, the Pies would have won a flag. Reckon the dogs lack a bit too much in other areas of the ground.

Lions and Port are the ones to watch IMO. Lions have added Daniher which was their one desperate need, they've got the smart smalls up front that apply pressure, the good disposal out of D50 and now two of the best KPP in the game - add to that a handful of extremely good youngsters that haven't hit their peak yet.

If they can get Cockatoo fit and firing, he and Charlie Cameron will be as close as possible to Rioli and Puopolo as far as "shitting your dacks if you've got the ball in defense" goes.

Last checking with my lions fanatic, mate, cockatoo was fit and firing though preseason. Early signs are very positive for the lions.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

If midfields were enough, the Pies would have won a flag. Reckon the dogs lack a bit too much in other areas of the ground.

Lions and Port are the ones to watch IMO. Lions have added Daniher which was their one desperate need, they've got the smart smalls up front that apply pressure, the good disposal out of D50 and now two of the best KPP in the game - add to that a handful of extremely good youngsters that haven't hit their peak yet.

If they can get Cockatoo fit and firing, he and Charlie Cameron will be as close as possible to Rioli and Puopolo as far as "shitting your dacks if you've got the ball in defense" goes.

The dogs weren't great outside mids and utilities when they won the flag in 2016...

Western Bulldogs

B:	39 Jason Johannisen	30 Joel Hamling	5 Matthew Boyd
HB:	24 Shane Biggs	38 Dale Morris	10 Easton Wood (c)
C:	7 Lachie Hunter	4 Marcus Bontempelli	42 Liam Picken
HF:	11 Jackson Macrae	12 Zaine Cordy	9 Jake Stringer
F:	29 Tory Dickson	17 Tom Boyd	14 Clay Smith
Foll:	23 Jordan Roughead	6 Luke Dahlhaus	21 Tom Liberatore
Int:	16 Toby McLean	18 Fletcher Roberts	20 Josh Dunkley
	35 Caleb Daniel
Coach:	Luke Beveridge

 

[KermitJagger]

The dogs weren't great outside mids and utilities when they won the flag in 2016...

Western Bulldogs

B:	39 Jason Johannisen	30 Joel Hamling	5 Matthew Boyd
HB:	24 Shane Biggs	38 Dale Morris	10 Easton Wood (c)
C:	7 Lachie Hunter	4 Marcus Bontempelli	42 Liam Picken
HF:	11 Jackson Macrae	12 Zaine Cordy	9 Jake Stringer
F:	29 Tory Dickson	17 Tom Boyd	14 Clay Smith
Foll:	23 Jordan Roughead	6 Luke Dahlhaus	21 Tom Liberatore
Int:	16 Toby McLean	18 Fletcher Roberts	20 Josh Dunkley
	35 Caleb Daniel
Coach:	Luke Beveridge

Are we talking besides them having 26 players?